Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not sound like a gen z / minority issue.

Sounds to me like this is a this-person-has-probably-never-had-a-real-job issue, perhaps along with a chemistry issue (you probably won’t ever like each other).

You say you have 30 years of experience—surely you can navigate such issues?

I tend to be very good at my job but not interpersonal skills. I'm good at technical items and collaborating on solutions. I work well with people who have more deferring manners and have trouble with people who are bossy and undermining. I work in an industry that takes a lot of precision and collaboration but also has a lot of risk takers and high earners with money that like to show off their power. I used to be nervous around clients who would do this and then make me responsible for their decisions with the final product, but have learned to be deferential and just document. I am still having a harder time with younger staff and how to navigate those interactions. I want to empower them in a way that also requires respect and have a terrible time doing this. I think because of this deferring kind of English polite behavior I tend to have trouble being in roles of authority. The only thing I've learned is to ignore these types of power plays and just focus on the work. Yes, next time I will definitely ask for the phone to be put away. I just get so shocked that people even do this type of stuff and want to have positive reactions so often am a little light on comments like this till it bothers me and then of course it comes out with some negative emotion.

Her development is on her not on you. Start training and when she starts with the disrespect send her on her way. Second she looks at the phone say “looks like you already have all the answers send me your final and copy the VP by COB. Toodles.”

I would caution the OP about doing ANY 1:1 with this employee. It sounds like she looks at everything through the lens of her victimhood, and you may be putting yourself at risk just by taking her to a lunch to coach her. If you do something like this, always have a third person with you, preferably an HR representative.

Anonymous wrote:As the supervisor, develop a set of clear expectations in writing and share with the entire team, so as not to look like you're singling her out. But on those expectations, include the things she has been doing that you want to change -- e.g., no phones during meetings, behaving professionally and appropriately in the office, channeling dissent through the right channels up instead of laterally, completing work in an independent and timely manner, etc. After you've set up this framework, tailor it to her individual expectations given her inexperience. Then track her progress against it and have 1:1 meetings.

She sounds like trouble. Sorry OP.

I hate when supervisors do this. If everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing except for one person, but you issue directives to everyone, that just says that you don't have the balls to deal with a problematic employee directly. If one individual employee is doing things you don't like, then that personSHOULD be singled out. You don't need to chastise everyone.

Whoever she reports to needs to have a sit down and talk about work flow, office norms, etc.

It doesn’t have to be harsh or shaming ( she is both young and brand new, after all) but it sounds like she just really has some misunderstandings about the way work gets assigned and done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not sound like a gen z / minority issue.

Sounds to me like this is a this-person-has-probably-never-had-a-real-job issue, perhaps along with a chemistry issue (you probably won’t ever like each other).

You say you have 30 years of experience—surely you can navigate such issues?

I tend to be very good at my job but not interpersonal skills. I'm good at technical items and collaborating on solutions. I work well with people who have more deferring manners and have trouble with people who are bossy and undermining. I work in an industry that takes a lot of precision and collaboration but also has a lot of risk takers and high earners with money that like to show off their power. I used to be nervous around clients who would do this and then make me responsible for their decisions with the final product, but have learned to be deferential and just document. I am still having a harder time with younger staff and how to navigate those interactions. I want to empower them in a way that also requires respect and have a terrible time doing this. I think because of this deferring kind of English polite behavior I tend to have trouble being in roles of authority. The only thing I've learned is to ignore these types of power plays and just focus on the work. Yes, next time I will definitely ask for the phone to be put away. I just get so shocked that people even do this type of stuff and want to have positive reactions so often am a little light on comments like this till it bothers me and then of course it comes out with some negative emotion.

I’d look into management training. There are specific techniques for dealing with the fairly standard gamut of tactics that people use to avoid taking responsibility and doing work. They even have catchy names to help you remember them in the moment. An example is the “broken record technique.” If you get some training on some of these responses and are familiar with the HR guidelines that support them (eg something in the employees manual like “team members are expected to be present and devoting their full attention to their work and interactions with supervisors and colleagues”), you can blandly and repetitively insist on basic standards being met.

I recently had to do this with a gen z employee whose excuse for not doing any work for two days was that his home internet was down (“company policy is that remote work requires a functioning broadband internet connection. If none is available, employees need to come in to the office. See page X of the employee guide.”).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think making this about her demographics might be a mistake here. I've had new employees pushback across demographics, the key is to set clear boundaries and expectations and enforce them. There's also an extent that you respect someone's autonomy when appropriate and avoid micromanaging. If you're struggling on a particular issue or want some guidance on where the line is for your organization you should speak to your boss. For me, finding that boundary line one of the hardest aspects of management when I first took it on.

The only reason I bring up demographics is because it was in all the work she submitted for the job application so clearly she thinks it defines her and is her worldview. There are plenty of minorities at my workplace where this doesn't define them at all.

I'm going out on a limb here. OP is the problem. She is a 'Karen' of sorts that isn't get the deferential experience she thinks she deserves based on title, experience, or even color. That's why she titled her post that way. She doesn't like this person because she does have a world view that doesn't center OP. Boo-hoo. Hopefully, retirement is just around the corner for you.

That’s a lot of guesswork on your part.

I just see a manager who would like a new employee to do the work for which she was hired.

Nah. OP wants her employee to center her comfort. She said she's a 'traditionalist'. I've been working as long and have never used that phrase.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think making this about her demographics might be a mistake here. I've had new employees pushback across demographics, the key is to set clear boundaries and expectations and enforce them. There's also an extent that you respect someone's autonomy when appropriate and avoid micromanaging. If you're struggling on a particular issue or want some guidance on where the line is for your organization you should speak to your boss. For me, finding that boundary line one of the hardest aspects of management when I first took it on.

The only reason I bring up demographics is because it was in all the work she submitted for the job application so clearly she thinks it defines her and is her worldview. There are plenty of minorities at my workplace where this doesn't define them at all.

I'm going out on a limb here. OP is the problem. She is a 'Karen' of sorts that isn't get the deferential experience she thinks she deserves based on title, experience, or even color. That's why she titled her post that way. She doesn't like this person because she does have a world view that doesn't center OP. Boo-hoo. Hopefully, retirement is just around the corner for you.

That’s a lot of guesswork on your part.

I just see a manager who would like a new employee to do the work for which she was hired.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think making this about her demographics might be a mistake here. I've had new employees pushback across demographics, the key is to set clear boundaries and expectations and enforce them. There's also an extent that you respect someone's autonomy when appropriate and avoid micromanaging. If you're struggling on a particular issue or want some guidance on where the line is for your organization you should speak to your boss. For me, finding that boundary line one of the hardest aspects of management when I first took it on.

The only reason I bring up demographics is because it was in all the work she submitted for the job application so clearly she thinks it defines her and is her worldview. There are plenty of minorities at my workplace where this doesn't define them at all.

I'm going out on a limb here. OP is the problem. She is a 'Karen' of sorts that isn't get the deferential experience she thinks she deserves based on title, experience, or even color. That's why she titled her post that way. She doesn't like this person because she does have a world view that doesn't center OP. Boo-hoo. Hopefully, retirement is just around the corner for you.

HR Leader/Executive Coach here...

Take her to lunch 1:1 to get to know her. Ask her questions about how she believes the job she took with your company supports her longer term goal. Ask her how she believes you can support her being successful while she is working for you. Ask how she likes to receive feedback. Ask her for feedback.

Ask about her hobbies, future vacation destinations and other non-intrusive questions to learn about her apart from work.

Describe your expectations, for clarity. This might be important because you said someone else hired her and placed her on your team so you likely didn't get the chance to discuss this during the interview process.
Tell her that you look forward to having a great working relationship.

You're her manager so you have to keep it professional, but make it a bit more friendly with hope that will make her a little less rigid in taking on work, etc. We all work a little harder when we are working for someone we like. It's early days so be proactive in setting up a strong working relationship.

Anonymous wrote:She's also like this with a lot of people. We had a companywide meeting about updates for the next 6 months and they asked for any feedback for doing better and she shot up her hand and complained that the office wasn't very attractive. It's not something she didn't see on a tour. It's just very forward for someone who has been here for a month to start asking for something like that so irrelevant to her job. Like any company just has money to rework the look of an entire office.

Some might say uppity, even....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this is a tough spot for you. And a potentially dangerous one. If you make this about her race (which you shouldn't, obviously) even in the hope of trying to figure out her world view, you put yourself in jeopardy. You need to focus exclusively on performance.

FWIW, I occasionally ruminate on what a disaster of an employee i was straight out of school. Smart, but undisciplined, anti-authoritarian, and smug. I thought I knew best and was reluctant to take direction. And I worked very inefficiently. Some people were more patient than others, but what finally snapped me out of it was somebody laying down the line and telling me I needed to accomplish X by open of business the next day, no exceptions. I stayed at the office until 2pm trying to get my code to work. And something clicked that I wasn't entitled to employment, I was there to earn it.

I wasn't a model or a minority and there was none of that complexity for me. But the path to success was the same. Somebody - sometimes multiple people - explaining to me in clear terms what the expectations were.

Keep it simple and uncomplicated. Focus on the work and don't get distracted by social elements. That's the fastest way to success for her and the least risky way for you.

In many ways this was me too, but the gen x leadership was slow to adapt in the mid 2000s… it made new college graduates like me who understood technology a bit impatient and smug. I think we were inefficient because we were working in outdated systems and processes that were inherently inefficient and we understood things could be a lot more efficient. I’d say I simmered a bit but the folks who are in their 50s and 60s modernized.

For this example, it is useful to reference how the world was when you graduated, how you fit in, where leadership was in your first job, and how everything shifted in the years after… it will likely reveal that no matter how much of an outlier she seems, some parts of her approach, if they’re indeed common to her generation, will seep into the mainstream eventually…

This is every generation. I am Gen X and had to work with older Gen X/ Boomers who did not want to learn new technology. If I sent them a spreadsheet they refused to look at it unless I printed it out. Gen Z is not unique and the next generation will come along sneering and looking down on them as well.

I am 62 and every single day you use things I helped create. In fact the biggest leaps forward in IT was around 1984-1999. If you have a mortgage, broker dealer account, bank account all things I worked on.

I even did Flash Trading and Crypto. Right now working on building out AI enhancements in banking.

My kids know Tic Toc and Instagram and Spotify and think they are PC experts.

I can tell you’re an engineer because you think one data point is proof that boomers don’t suck at technology.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this is a tough spot for you. And a potentially dangerous one. If you make this about her race (which you shouldn't, obviously) even in the hope of trying to figure out her world view, you put yourself in jeopardy. You need to focus exclusively on performance.

FWIW, I occasionally ruminate on what a disaster of an employee i was straight out of school. Smart, but undisciplined, anti-authoritarian, and smug. I thought I knew best and was reluctant to take direction. And I worked very inefficiently. Some people were more patient than others, but what finally snapped me out of it was somebody laying down the line and telling me I needed to accomplish X by open of business the next day, no exceptions. I stayed at the office until 2pm trying to get my code to work. And something clicked that I wasn't entitled to employment, I was there to earn it.

I wasn't a model or a minority and there was none of that complexity for me. But the path to success was the same. Somebody - sometimes multiple people - explaining to me in clear terms what the expectations were.

Keep it simple and uncomplicated. Focus on the work and don't get distracted by social elements. That's the fastest way to success for her and the least risky way for you.

In many ways this was me too, but the gen x leadership was slow to adapt in the mid 2000s… it made new college graduates like me who understood technology a bit impatient and smug. I think we were inefficient because we were working in outdated systems and processes that were inherently inefficient and we understood things could be a lot more efficient. I’d say I simmered a bit but the folks who are in their 50s and 60s modernized.

For this example, it is useful to reference how the world was when you graduated, how you fit in, where leadership was in your first job, and how everything shifted in the years after… it will likely reveal that no matter how much of an outlier she seems, some parts of her approach, if they’re indeed common to her generation, will seep into the mainstream eventually…

This is every generation. I am Gen X and had to work with older Gen X/ Boomers who did not want to learn new technology. If I sent them a spreadsheet they refused to look at it unless I printed it out. Gen Z is not unique and the next generation will come along sneering and looking down on them as well.

I am 62 and every single day you use things I helped create. In fact the biggest leaps forward in IT was around 1984-1999. If you have a mortgage, broker dealer account, bank account all things I worked on.

I even did Flash Trading and Crypto. Right now working on building out AI enhancements in banking.

My kids know Tic Toc and Instagram and Spotify and think they are PC experts.

And? You probably looked at the generation ahead of you with disdain because look at all those things "YOU" created. That's the point. But my, you really have a chip on your shoulder about this.

I had an entry level employee (white male) about 10 years ago who thought he was the smartest guy in any room. He thought he should be managing the project I was leading.

He was smart and he did have good ideas, but he was idealistic because his experience came from case studies and group projects in college. Here is the gist of the chat I had with him -
I think you are smart and I appreciate your insights. I will incorporate them when I can, but I also need you to listen when I share the real world constraints of our client, project, budget, etc. I am willing to be open minded and hear you out, but you need to accept that I am the person ultimately responsible for the project and my decisions are final. Sometimes I will have to say “no” or “not now/yet”. If you sow doubt or undermine me with the client, I will remove you from the project. This is a for-profit company and you are an employee. When there are opportunities that align with your interests and aspirations, I will absolutely champion you and support you to take on those tasks. However we also have a client and a contract right now and you need to do the work as assigned - even if you think it’s simple or boring.

Separately I had a client who was a bully and he would give the most junior contractors these menial, repetitive jobs as some form of hazing. He was a former executive at a consulting company and had such distain for all consultants. His mantra was “If you can’t staple papers correctly, why should I trust you with anything more complex?” I don’t agree with his approach, but I have had a gentler version of the same conversation with many new employees over the years. Basically “I know you are capable and ready for more complex tasks, but right now we really need to X,Y, Z.” How junior employees handle tasks like that tells me a lot about their character. If they do it efficiently and pay attention to detail, I am more likely to trust them to take on more, sooner. The ones that go on to be the most successful are the ones that don’t just use a menial or administrative task to demonstrate their attention to detail or efficiency, but the ones that find a way to make it a learning experience. For example - taking notes in a meeting is a menial task, but it may get you a seat in the room to listen to discussions you otherwise would not be privy to. Coordinating user acceptance testing can be boring and tedious, but the testers are your clients. If you build rapport with your clients it may eventually pay off because today’s client tester may be tomorrow’s client buyer or budget approver.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this is a tough spot for you. And a potentially dangerous one. If you make this about her race (which you shouldn't, obviously) even in the hope of trying to figure out her world view, you put yourself in jeopardy. You need to focus exclusively on performance.

FWIW, I occasionally ruminate on what a disaster of an employee i was straight out of school. Smart, but undisciplined, anti-authoritarian, and smug. I thought I knew best and was reluctant to take direction. And I worked very inefficiently. Some people were more patient than others, but what finally snapped me out of it was somebody laying down the line and telling me I needed to accomplish X by open of business the next day, no exceptions. I stayed at the office until 2pm trying to get my code to work. And something clicked that I wasn't entitled to employment, I was there to earn it.

I wasn't a model or a minority and there was none of that complexity for me. But the path to success was the same. Somebody - sometimes multiple people - explaining to me in clear terms what the expectations were.

Keep it simple and uncomplicated. Focus on the work and don't get distracted by social elements. That's the fastest way to success for her and the least risky way for you.

In many ways this was me too, but the gen x leadership was slow to adapt in the mid 2000s… it made new college graduates like me who understood technology a bit impatient and smug. I think we were inefficient because we were working in outdated systems and processes that were inherently inefficient and we understood things could be a lot more efficient. I’d say I simmered a bit but the folks who are in their 50s and 60s modernized.

For this example, it is useful to reference how the world was when you graduated, how you fit in, where leadership was in your first job, and how everything shifted in the years after… it will likely reveal that no matter how much of an outlier she seems, some parts of her approach, if they’re indeed common to her generation, will seep into the mainstream eventually…

This is every generation. I am Gen X and had to work with older Gen X/ Boomers who did not want to learn new technology. If I sent them a spreadsheet they refused to look at it unless I printed it out. Gen Z is not unique and the next generation will come along sneering and looking down on them as well.

I am 62 and every single day you use things I helped create. In fact the biggest leaps forward in IT was around 1984-1999. If you have a mortgage, broker dealer account, bank account all things I worked on.

I even did Flash Trading and Crypto. Right now working on building out AI enhancements in banking.

My kids know Tic Toc and Instagram and Spotify and think they are PC experts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - this is a tough spot for you. And a potentially dangerous one. If you make this about her race (which you shouldn't, obviously) even in the hope of trying to figure out her world view, you put yourself in jeopardy. You need to focus exclusively on performance.

FWIW, I occasionally ruminate on what a disaster of an employee i was straight out of school. Smart, but undisciplined, anti-authoritarian, and smug. I thought I knew best and was reluctant to take direction. And I worked very inefficiently. Some people were more patient than others, but what finally snapped me out of it was somebody laying down the line and telling me I needed to accomplish X by open of business the next day, no exceptions. I stayed at the office until 2pm trying to get my code to work. And something clicked that I wasn't entitled to employment, I was there to earn it.

I wasn't a model or a minority and there was none of that complexity for me. But the path to success was the same. Somebody - sometimes multiple people - explaining to me in clear terms what the expectations were.

Keep it simple and uncomplicated. Focus on the work and don't get distracted by social elements. That's the fastest way to success for her and the least risky way for you.

In many ways this was me too, but the gen x leadership was slow to adapt in the mid 2000s… it made new college graduates like me who understood technology a bit impatient and smug. I think we were inefficient because we were working in outdated systems and processes that were inherently inefficient and we understood things could be a lot more efficient. I’d say I simmered a bit but the folks who are in their 50s and 60s modernized.

For this example, it is useful to reference how the world was when you graduated, how you fit in, where leadership was in your first job, and how everything shifted in the years after… it will likely reveal that no matter how much of an outlier she seems, some parts of her approach, if they’re indeed common to her generation, will seep into the mainstream eventually…

This is every generation. I am Gen X and had to work with older Gen X/ Boomers who did not want to learn new technology. If I sent them a spreadsheet they refused to look at it unless I printed it out. Gen Z is not unique and the next generation will come along sneering and looking down on them as well.

This is a great point. I am also Gen X and I remember my first job out of college. I thought the office was so out of touch and out of date. Still, I came in and did my job the way I was told to do it… and only later, after establishing myself, did I implement a couple changes for efficiency.

From the start, I was able to acknowledge that I may have the technical know-how, but they had the knowledge that drove the organization.