Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

And while csections are one, working with the body and giving more time, space and less schedule based pressure would sure make this safer.

This is the midwife argument that does not hold up to scrutiny. But gosh it sure sells books, birth classes, and doulas.

And potentially saves perineums.

You realize the perineum is just the external skin, right? It’s the underlying pelvic floor muscles and keeping those intact (levator ani complex) that matters far more than surface injuries, when it comes to overall function.

Yes I realize it as I was unable to feel anything well enough to have functional pelvic floor pt. I understand exactly why. I had a mercy epidural after my first 24hours of laboring to sleep. I let it wear off but was still required to remain laying down 12 hours later and worked against gravity and was given very poor guidance by the ob on pushing. I was so tired we just kept going. If id been given food or even broth and been permitted to walk my would likely have been much better. Or at least we could have had a better chance. It’s not all or nothing here. We need more support in hospitals for physiological birthing that works with our anatomy instead of against it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

And while csections are one, working with the body and giving more time, space and less schedule based pressure would sure make this safer.

This is the midwife argument that does not hold up to scrutiny. But gosh it sure sells books, birth classes, and doulas.

And potentially saves perineums.

You realize the perineum is just the external skin, right? It’s the underlying pelvic floor muscles and keeping those intact (levator ani complex) that matters far more than surface injuries, when it comes to overall function.

Yes, as I tore mine. I realize all of it. My internal anal sphincter will never work properly again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

And while csections are one, working with the body and giving more time, space and less schedule based pressure would sure make this safer.

This is the midwife argument that does not hold up to scrutiny. But gosh it sure sells books, birth classes, and doulas.

Whoever you are, I applaud you. How I wish I had found this thread before my vaginal delivery (“textbook”, unassisted delivery that I regret every single day — my pelvic floor got absolutely shredded, and I had no attachment to pushing my baby out, just wanted the best chance at recovery. Joke was definitely on me for believing the NCBers who peddle crap and doctors who won’t disclose the high occurrence of prolapse and levator avulsion with vaginal deliveries).

Anonymous wrote:

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Legally insurance companies cant restrict payment/coverage for less than 48 hours for vaginal or 96 for csection.

Regardless womens healthcare is always underwhelming. You can stay for 4 days but theres no one to help you get out of bed or bring the baby to you etc unless you have family or friends staying with you. From my understanding only the women are considered the patient of the nurse not women plus baby and the ratios for post-op for any other surgery are way less than with postpartum moms. Nurses can correct me if I am wrong.

My DH was at Hopkins at had nurses constantly at his bedside, checking in, helping him, etc with no surgery. Post op csection after 2 days labor....it was deserted and wild wild west. You get poked and stabbed and massaged but thats about it.

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

And while csections are one, working with the body and giving more time, space and less schedule based pressure would sure make this safer.

This is the midwife argument that does not hold up to scrutiny. But gosh it sure sells books, birth classes, and doulas.

And potentially saves perineums.

You realize the perineum is just the external skin, right? It’s the underlying pelvic floor muscles and keeping those intact (levator ani complex) that matters far more than surface injuries, when it comes to overall function.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

And while csections are one, working with the body and giving more time, space and less schedule based pressure would sure make this safer.

This is the midwife argument that does not hold up to scrutiny. But gosh it sure sells books, birth classes, and doulas.

And potentially saves perineums.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

And while csections are one, working with the body and giving more time, space and less schedule based pressure would sure make this safer.

This is the midwife argument that does not hold up to scrutiny. But gosh it sure sells books, birth classes, and doulas.

Anonymous wrote:Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

And while csections are one, working with the body and giving more time, space and less schedule based pressure would sure make this safer.

Our docs need to offer more options than lie in your back and push or those crappy squat bars. Poorly guided pushing and improper postures are a HUGE part of why we are sustaining injuries during birth. It’s not all if it but man….there is a better way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-13391033/Louise-thompson-traumatic-childbirth.html

Why aren’t elective c-sections offered as an option to all women, as is standard in other countries? It seems so infantilizing to gatekeep women’s healthcare in this way. Personally, I found it rye-opening that most OBs choose c-sections for themselves. I’m not saying it should be pushed or encouraged - just that it should at least be a choice. Of course all surgeries come with risks, but why do we trust women to weigh those risks when contemplating a repeat C vs. VBAC, but not in the first instance? Just weird and smacks of misogyny imo.

Surgery carries risks for the patient. They expose ob/gyns to malpractice. They are more work to manager from a physician's standpoint. If doctors don't want to offer that service, it's their right. It's their license. If you can find someone to do it for you, more power to you. But you don't have a right to an elective surgery.

I love that the NCB people are convinced that surgeons are pushing c-sections for convenience but also unwilling to do them because they're more work. Pick an argument!

A woman does actually have a right to appropriate medical care, and choices over her care. All OBs do c-sections. A planned c-section at full term is very safe, can be requested, and often is suggested for older or obese patients. None of that forces a surgeon to do a surgery they feel isn't safe or appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-13391033/Louise-thompson-traumatic-childbirth.html

Why aren’t elective c-sections offered as an option to all women, as is standard in other countries? It seems so infantilizing to gatekeep women’s healthcare in this way. Personally, I found it rye-opening that most OBs choose c-sections for themselves. I’m not saying it should be pushed or encouraged - just that it should at least be a choice. Of course all surgeries come with risks, but why do we trust women to weigh those risks when contemplating a repeat C vs. VBAC, but not in the first instance? Just weird and smacks of misogyny imo.

Surgery carries risks for the patient. They expose ob/gyns to malpractice. They are more work to manager from a physician's standpoint. If doctors don't want to offer that service, it's their right. It's their license. If you can find someone to do it for you, more power to you. But you don't have a right to an elective surgery.

I read about all the risks from vaginal birth before I had a baby. I chose an elective c section. Easy recovery, literally no impacts on my body apart from a tiny white scar. To the PP, guess that stupidity worked out for me.
To any woman considering her birth choices- I encourage you to read up about birth injuries as per the link shared earlier. I wasn't willing to take the high risk of permanent pelvic floor injury and instead opted for the low risk of haemorrhage or whatever risk a c section has- the percentage was so low as to be negligible to be.

Anonymous wrote:I attempted an ECV for a breech baby and I wish I'd just had a c section (which I ended up with anyway). That ECV attempt was unbelievably painful.

Same. And I had an epidural! It was also scary to see my baby’s heart rate drop. She was fine but for an awful moment I thought my baby had died.

Anonymous wrote:Aren't C-sections generally more expensive? That's a reason to avoid them. I mean insurance will cover it, and then we all have continued rising insurance costs.

PP made a good point about lifetime costs, but c-sections are not even necessarily more expensive than a vaginal delivery with epidural. It's a short surgery, and a lot of the same people are in the room either way. You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Before someone comes waving their "insurance paid $×" statements -- insurance bills and reimbursement are negotiated to the point of being fictional. They are not a true cost of the service. You can call the hospital for a self-insured cash price.