Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre.

And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc.

DP. I've never met a man who cared if his wife could handle a large trash pickup or clean out a mousetrap. I've known plenty of women who could, probably most, but I've never sat around with my dad friends wondering why our wives aren't the ones cleaning up dead animals around the house.

And this my friends is Dad logic. How many dead animals do you deal with a year? JFC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I logged on to DcUM, I just got off the phone with the ped’s office trying to get an earlier appointment for an anxiety med, after meeting with the therapist earlier this week, during an appointment that I made, based on emails that I exchanged with her (largely screenshots of text exchanges I had with my kid about her anxiety surrounding some exams….).

I told DW the where and when of the appointment.

Some of you are just blind to the fact that many dads are not as checked out as yours husbands are.

“ What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH.”

If you’re still butthurt about mommy war BS, you need to grow up. And newsflash, all that judgment comes exclusively from other women. When are you ever going to learn to ignore it?

+1. To the women of DCUM: on the eternal and nasty SAHM v. WOHM cage match, the call is coming from inside the house. That is all woman-on-woman mean girl BS. Stop blaming men for that.

It absolutely is not. I have had men tell me to my face that they are so glad their wives value their children enough to stay home with them (and do absolutely everything for their husbands as well!). While some of it is women on women is actually exists unlike the PP who is complaining about people judging his income because they didn’t go to Disney world. That is not a thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Honestly, this is trope stacked on top of trope and is really some lazy thinking by someone heavily invested in martyred mothering (just note the name of the substack -- "Liberating Motherhood" -- this thing comes at this with an axe to grind and part of the business model is to stoke outrage; it's not dissimilar from right-wing news media like Fox or Newsmax in that regard.) The article itself incredibly lazy thinking that borrows the language of liberation theology for cynical purposes, and I'm going to hazard a guess that the "checklist" is just a crowdsourced list of grievances from women with a similar mindset. In other words, I don't think the author has any original thoughts on the matter.

This is not to say some individual items on the list aren't valid phenomena -- I have definitely been approached by women at the playground when I was out with my toddlers and praised for being a great dad and giving mom a "break," for example, but I've also been approached by women keen on "helping" me because they assumed by these women to be incompetent because I have a penis). So, this isn't really dad "privilege" so much as it is a recounting of various stereotypes that are harmful to both women AND men. It's kind of like the dumb, clueless dad trope you used to see in advertising (and thankfully don't see so much anymore, that ridiculous car commercial where the dad gets the wrong binky notwithstanding).

So, I'm not going to say "not all men." I'm going to say "hardly any men" fit this list of "privilege." (Another co-opted term intended to provoke a response, natch).

Let's just look at the first two:

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I know that someone else will know the signs of developmental disabilities and mental health issues in my children.

I guess we're assume that these things are exclusively the mom's domain? But I don't think that's true in any family I know of. I will say that same as women are known to approach dads at playgrounds and either praise or offer to help them, schools similarly default to contacting the mom, nevermind the fact that most dads are perfectly competent and capable caregivers.

I know of NO families where the presence of developmental disabilities or mental health issues are unilateral concerns for just mom.

The third one on the list about giving birth was first the clue to me that this was a crowdsourced list -- it's just dripping with contempt and doesn't make sense.

The next two:

My partner will be judged for my parenting shortcomings.

I don’t have to worry about school supplies because someone else will do it for me.

I guess it's true that men, in general, don't give a shit what other people think so wouldn't fret about being "judged." That's not "privilege," however. That's just a case of having self-confidence. To the degree women have more insecurities and worry about what other people think, that's a woman problem (and probably an individual one), not some broader indictment of men; everyone should carry on without caring what other people think, much less caring if someone else is "judging."

The school supplies thing is just stupid -- we always did back-to-school shopping as a family and there were plenty of dads doing the same when we were at Staples or whatever.

The men I know make doctors appointments and take their kids to doctors. They cook. They plan birthday parties (granted, these birthday parties might not be the elaborate affairs some martyr moms might feel like they need to have so they don't feel judged, but that, again, is a woman problem, it's not "dad privilege."). They plan trips and pack their children for them. They chaperone school field trips. In fact, they do most of these things on this list except things they're physically incapable of, such as giving birth or breastfeeding. But they do, in fact, pick up the slack when their partners DO those physical things, the contemptuous tone of the bulleted list items notwithstanding.

So, I guess what I'm saying is I dispute the very premise of the article. I understand it was written to try to rile up women feeling resentful about things. But objectively, the insinuation that men don't do the things on this (ridiculously long, crow-sourced list) is unsupported by facts, except for some things that might fall more into the bucket of "emotional labor," which takes us back to those conversations since, at the end of the day, there are some things some moms care a lot more about than most dads -- and most of those are grounded in <checks notes> fear of "being judged" or other anxieties that men, generally, don't have.

Is not having that anxiety "dad privilege?" I suppose you could make the case. But, honestly, moms didn't have that anxiety for most millennia. If the supposition here is that men should start caring about these things that give moms anxiety (fear of being judged...) that's arguably stupid. Misery loves company, sure... But maybe, just maybe, women should take a page from the attitude most dads have and stop obsessing so much about things that don't matter in the long run.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I logged on to DcUM, I just got off the phone with the ped’s office trying to get an earlier appointment for an anxiety med, after meeting with the therapist earlier this week, during an appointment that I made, based on emails that I exchanged with her (largely screenshots of text exchanges I had with my kid about her anxiety surrounding some exams….).

I told DW the where and when of the appointment.

Some of you are just blind to the fact that many dads are not as checked out as yours husbands are.

“ What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH.”

If you’re still butthurt about mommy war BS, you need to grow up. And newsflash, all that judgment comes exclusively from other women. When are you ever going to learn to ignore it?

+1. To the women of DCUM: on the eternal and nasty SAHM v. WOHM cage match, the call is coming from inside the house. That is all woman-on-woman mean girl BS. Stop blaming men for that.

Sorry about your reading comprehension skills. The PP was actually specifically arguing AGAINST the WOHM v. SAHM debate. That was the whole point of her comment -- "women who are judged as bad moms for working AND other moms who are judge for being lazy because they SAHM." Her point is that neither judgment is fair and yet they get thrown at women all the time because no woman is ever judged to be doing enough. It's an anti-mommy wars stance, arguing in favor of cutting women some freaking slack (the way we cut men slack all the time).

Judgment thrown by whom? It’s not the MEN who aren’t willing to cut women “some freaking slack.”

Sometimes it is. But yes, men have pulled a cool trick where they outsource a lot of patriarchy to women. Men can sit there and say "omg stop judging each other over working or being a SAHM, you are all soooo mean to each other." But then when their wives work, they still expect them to do more than half of the chilcare/housework. And when the SAHM, well "I was actually working all day, I shouldn't have to be cooking and cleaning in the evening."

The judgments women heap on each other come directly from a culture that says men should not have to do "women's work," and that paid work is more important than unpaid labor in the home. The only reason it's even possible for women to snipe at each other over WOHM v. SAHM is because of those cultural expectations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I logged on to DcUM, I just got off the phone with the ped’s office trying to get an earlier appointment for an anxiety med, after meeting with the therapist earlier this week, during an appointment that I made, based on emails that I exchanged with her (largely screenshots of text exchanges I had with my kid about her anxiety surrounding some exams….).

I told DW the where and when of the appointment.

Some of you are just blind to the fact that many dads are not as checked out as yours husbands are.

“ What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH.”

If you’re still butthurt about mommy war BS, you need to grow up. And newsflash, all that judgment comes exclusively from other women. When are you ever going to learn to ignore it?

+1. To the women of DCUM: on the eternal and nasty SAHM v. WOHM cage match, the call is coming from inside the house. That is all woman-on-woman mean girl BS. Stop blaming men for that.

It absolutely is not. I have had men tell me to my face that they are so glad their wives value their children enough to stay home with them (and do absolutely everything for their husbands as well!). While some of it is women on women is actually exists unlike the PP who is complaining about people judging his income because they didn’t go to Disney world. That is not a thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I logged on to DcUM, I just got off the phone with the ped’s office trying to get an earlier appointment for an anxiety med, after meeting with the therapist earlier this week, during an appointment that I made, based on emails that I exchanged with her (largely screenshots of text exchanges I had with my kid about her anxiety surrounding some exams….).

I told DW the where and when of the appointment.

Some of you are just blind to the fact that many dads are not as checked out as yours husbands are.

“ What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH.”

If you’re still butthurt about mommy war BS, you need to grow up. And newsflash, all that judgment comes exclusively from other women. When are you ever going to learn to ignore it?

+1. To the women of DCUM: on the eternal and nasty SAHM v. WOHM cage match, the call is coming from inside the house. That is all woman-on-woman mean girl BS. Stop blaming men for that.

Sorry about your reading comprehension skills. The PP was actually specifically arguing AGAINST the WOHM v. SAHM debate. That was the whole point of her comment -- "women who are judged as bad moms for working AND other moms who are judge for being lazy because they SAHM." Her point is that neither judgment is fair and yet they get thrown at women all the time because no woman is ever judged to be doing enough. It's an anti-mommy wars stance, arguing in favor of cutting women some freaking slack (the way we cut men slack all the time).

Judgment thrown by whom? It’s not the MEN who aren’t willing to cut women “some freaking slack.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you.

Yes, that was about not wanting to be judged by an MIL, and had nothing to do with just making an effort to make sure a family has food to eat on a day when you know no one will have time to cook. Correct, you nailed it. And for sure the only thing women do that men don't do is make casseroles ahead of time. It's the only one.

I was just reacting to the main example you provided. You chose it. But let’s get real: yes there are many lazy and delinquent husbands, no dispute there. But there are also many wives who get angry when their husbands balk at doing things that are principally focused on the endless intramural status contest among women, competitive mothering and the superficial appearance of homes and children, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I logged on to DcUM, I just got off the phone with the ped’s office trying to get an earlier appointment for an anxiety med, after meeting with the therapist earlier this week, during an appointment that I made, based on emails that I exchanged with her (largely screenshots of text exchanges I had with my kid about her anxiety surrounding some exams….).

I told DW the where and when of the appointment.

Some of you are just blind to the fact that many dads are not as checked out as yours husbands are.

“ What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH.”

If you’re still butthurt about mommy war BS, you need to grow up. And newsflash, all that judgment comes exclusively from other women. When are you ever going to learn to ignore it?

+1. To the women of DCUM: on the eternal and nasty SAHM v. WOHM cage match, the call is coming from inside the house. That is all woman-on-woman mean girl BS. Stop blaming men for that.

Sorry about your reading comprehension skills. The PP was actually specifically arguing AGAINST the WOHM v. SAHM debate. That was the whole point of her comment -- "women who are judged as bad moms for working AND other moms who are judge for being lazy because they SAHM." Her point is that neither judgment is fair and yet they get thrown at women all the time because no woman is ever judged to be doing enough. It's an anti-mommy wars stance, arguing in favor of cutting women some freaking slack (the way we cut men slack all the time).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I logged on to DcUM, I just got off the phone with the ped’s office trying to get an earlier appointment for an anxiety med, after meeting with the therapist earlier this week, during an appointment that I made, based on emails that I exchanged with her (largely screenshots of text exchanges I had with my kid about her anxiety surrounding some exams….).

I told DW the where and when of the appointment.

Some of you are just blind to the fact that many dads are not as checked out as yours husbands are.

“ What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH.”

If you’re still butthurt about mommy war BS, you need to grow up. And newsflash, all that judgment comes exclusively from other women. When are you ever going to learn to ignore it?

+1. To the women of DCUM: on the eternal and nasty SAHM v. WOHM cage match, the call is coming from inside the house. That is all woman-on-woman mean girl BS. Stop blaming men for that.