Anonymous
05/01/2024 09:40
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Assume JR is Jackson Reed.
What private is this that gatekeeps APs like this?
The Cathedral schools do.
Yes. My DD had a 95% in precalculus and they wouldn’t allow her to take AP Calculus because she wasn’t in the advanced precalculus class. Took “college prep” calculus instead.
This is exactly the policy at my DD's school...there are three levels of precalc and the middle level and above can go into AP Calc AB and only the highest level can do BC.
So for anyone who has had kids on the cusp and interested in taking more rigours classes but not allowed to, how did it shake out when time to apply to college? What do good grades in non weighted/rigorous classes get you? My child has goals and I do not want to have to forget those after freshman year. The school is not worth that.
If your kid is on the bubble, one option is to take a class or get a tutor over the summer and submit results from that (or ask for a placement test) to bump up to the higher track. Also, if it’s just that your kid tracks into AB instead of BC, that’s not that big a deal.
If your kid has all A’s in standard-level classes, colleges are going to think they coasted and didn’t challenge themself enough. But if your kid is making a mix of A’s and B’s, and taking the highest level classes they can get into, that still looks good. It doesn’t help to take a higher level class than they can succeed in.
AB Calc is intended to be equivalent to the first semester of college calculus, while BC is intended to cover the first year of college calculus. So by making students take AB followed by BC, they are making them repeat half of the material. This isn't the way it's supposed to work.
Except now I hear from our private college counselor that the selective direct admit business programs will reject for only taking AB Calculus. They want BC Calculus for business schools. My DS’ school will not allow BC Calculus from AP Precalculus. You can only take AB Calculus and then BC Calculus the next year. This doesn’t help him since he is taking AP Precalculus in 11th. It is frustrating, because I heard in public school you have the choice of taking either AP Calculus class. (AB or BC). You don’t have to take AB before BC. They are not gatekept at all.
Anonymous
04/29/2024 10:12
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:This is OP and yes I keep asking myself how I wasn’t aware of how gatekept these classes were. My son assumed he would be approved for honors classes right away, given his middle school transcript but when he wasn’t the academic dean (not sure of exact position title of who I spoke with) said that as long as he “did well” moving into honors for 10th grade would be easy. I was also told that placement was not absolute and there was room to discuss. I was told after mid terms that he could advance with department approval even. Well fast forward and no one has any desire to discuss the options that we need, no wiggle room [i][u]and likely no justification for me to keep my kid there academically. He is happy. We turned down other opportunities to be there and it really just sucks. I haven’t given up and am looking for a way but at the end of the day I am pretty positive they aren’t going to be helpful. It’s a big school. My kid can stay or go. They aren’t too concerned. Makes all of us very sad but here we are.
I think what you're missing, OP, is that the school, who knows both your son academically and the curriculum of the 10th grade classes, don't feel he's ready for the honors classes. There IS wiggle room at virtually all privates, and as you heard there was an opportunity for him to move up both after midterms and between school years **for the students for which they think that is appropriate**
For whatever reason, your son's don't think the higher levels are appropriate for him. And given what you've written here, it sounds like he's in the perfect level currently.
In general, they are moving up the kids with high As who are clearly skating through their current classes. A kid not even at a low A isn't served by being in an inappropriately challenging class.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 19:10
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you just want the easy As so head on back to public school because you're barking up the wrong tree.
My kid took a few honors classes in areas he was good in- English and history. He didn't get into those classes until 11th grade and no APs until senior year when he took two. He got into all of the schools he applied to because he chose wisely.
Oh and just an FYI. Many private schools limit college applications to 10 or 12. If you don't like it, it's best you go back to public school now. They won't budge on that either.
Not at all true but I do want my kid to be someplace that will allow an advanced class without the exact needed grade, which varies. If I had a crystal ball and knew he would be ok for a few honors and/or AP jr year that would be ok too but I don't, and without wiggle room it's a huge risk to take. If a non honors mostly A student is looking at Towson or Delaware St as their best options I will pass on paying 25k a year for that. I imagine my son will largely apply to public universities so with the common app I fail to see how the school can limit these things. But if they can, it's a good question to ask and possibly another reason to go.
You want something for nothing. Head back to public school. Most people want th we or kids to get a better education so they send them to private school. MUCH higher expectations there, as you can see. But if you just want the As, whether they are deserved or not, go on back and live in fantasy land.
You are desperate to justify the 30-50K you're paying annually to send your kids to private school and not seeing the reality that this doesn't work for some kids. You don't want to spend that kind of money and have your kid excluded from challenging coursework--just because they're on the cusp of an A rather than an A. Not having APs on your transcript is a big deal.
It’s private school, you choose to send your kid there. If it doesn’t work for them, send them somewhere else.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 18:41
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you just want the easy As so head on back to public school because you're barking up the wrong tree.
My kid took a few honors classes in areas he was good in- English and history. He didn't get into those classes until 11th grade and no APs until senior year when he took two. He got into all of the schools he applied to because he chose wisely.
Oh and just an FYI. Many private schools limit college applications to 10 or 12. If you don't like it, it's best you go back to public school now. They won't budge on that either.
Not at all true but I do want my kid to be someplace that will allow an advanced class without the exact needed grade, which varies. If I had a crystal ball and knew he would be ok for a few honors and/or AP jr year that would be ok too but I don't, and without wiggle room it's a huge risk to take. If a non honors mostly A student is looking at Towson or Delaware St as their best options I will pass on paying 25k a year for that. I imagine my son will largely apply to public universities so with the common app I fail to see how the school can limit these things. But if they can, it's a good question to ask and possibly another reason to go.
You want something for nothing. Head back to public school. Most people want th we or kids to get a better education so they send them to private school. MUCH higher expectations there, as you can see. But if you just want the As, whether they are deserved or not, go on back and live in fantasy land.
You are desperate to justify the 30-50K you're paying annually to send your kids to private school and not seeing the reality that this doesn't work for some kids. You don't want to spend that kind of money and have your kid excluded from challenging coursework--just because they're on the cusp of an A rather than an A. Not having APs on your transcript is a big deal.
I don’t spend anywhere near that amount. My kid showed he was ready for the next level course by demonstrating mastery in the previous level. Most private schools require students to take AP exams if they take the course. They want good outcomes on the exams, not kids winging it because they have open enrollment in AP courses.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 17:57
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Use the extra time from being on the easier track to have the kid self-study and take the AP exam on his own.
Can you do that outside of school? If so that’s not a bad idea. Would this still go on a transcript somehow if the exam was passed?
I know homeschooled kids who have taken and passed AP tests so, yes, anyone can take them. It doesn't have to be through the school.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 17:43
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:This is OP and yes I keep asking myself how I wasn’t aware of how gatekept these classes were. My son assumed he would be approved for honors classes right away, given his middle school transcript but when he wasn’t the academic dean (not sure of exact position title of who I spoke with) said that as long as he “did well” moving into honors for 10th grade would be easy. I was also told that placement was not absolute and there was room to discuss. I was told after mid terms that he could advance with department approval even. Well fast forward and no one has any desire to discuss the options that we need, no wiggle room and likely no justification for me to keep my kid there academically. He is happy. We turned down other opportunities to be there and it really just sucks. I haven’t given up and am looking for a way but at the end of the day I am pretty positive they aren’t going to be helpful. It’s a big school. My kid can stay or go. They aren’t too concerned. Makes all of us very sad but here we are.
I think a lot of the placement into honors (at least at Gonzaga) is based on your HSPT scores combined with your placement test results (if math or language). Did he do well on the HSPT? I think they like to see 90%+ scores. The middle school transcript is not as reliable since every school has a different grading scale, etc. The school wants your kid to do well and it actually sounds like his placement was correct if he is earning B+s in non-honors classes.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 12:46
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
I am very definitely not blaming anyone, simply stating why I was not aware of how stringent their policies are. Clearly if my kid got high enough grades this would not be an issue.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 11:20
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:This is OP and yes I keep asking myself how I wasn’t aware of how gatekept these classes were. My son assumed he would be approved for honors classes right away, given his middle school transcript but when he wasn’t the academic dean (not sure of exact position title of who I spoke with) said that as long as he “did well” moving into honors for 10th grade would be easy. I was also told that placement was not absolute and there was room to discuss. I was told after mid terms that he could advance with department approval even. Well fast forward and no one has any desire to discuss the options that we need, no wiggle room and likely no justification for me to keep my kid there academically. He is happy. We turned down other opportunities to be there and it really just sucks. I haven’t given up and am looking for a way but at the end of the day I am pretty positive they aren’t going to be helpful. It’s a big school. My kid can stay or go. They aren’t too concerned. Makes all of us very sad but here we are.
You can continue to blame the school, but the reality is that your kid is being passed over because he's not a top student. Life is a competition, OP. In your mind he's a bright boy, and I'm sure that's true. But if the school can fill the advanced classes with kids who are more high-achieving than he is... why wouldn't they?
Private schools look out for their interests first. Surely you can understand that sometimes this does not overlap with a student's individual interest. Public schools are forced by law to accept all residents of their catchment area. They usually cannot gatekeep AP courses very well (they try). This is why the AP US History exam, for example, has a dismal score average. Something like 2 out of 5. Because tons of public school students take the exam who shouldn't.
You will see this play conflict of interest play out again if/when the school gatekeeps applications to selective colleges.
Bottom line, OP: he might not achieve in public either. The right to take a class doesn't equal doing well in it!
What he needs is motivation and tutoring if you want him to do better.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 11:12
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
This is OP and yes I keep asking myself how I wasn’t aware of how gatekept these classes were. My son assumed he would be approved for honors classes right away, given his middle school transcript but when he wasn’t the academic dean (not sure of exact position title of who I spoke with) said that as long as he “did well” moving into honors for 10th grade would be easy. I was also told that placement was not absolute and there was room to discuss. I was told after mid terms that he could advance with department approval even. Well fast forward and no one has any desire to discuss the options that we need, no wiggle room and likely no justification for me to keep my kid there academically. He is happy. We turned down other opportunities to be there and it really just sucks. I haven’t given up and am looking for a way but at the end of the day I am pretty positive they aren’t going to be helpful. It’s a big school. My kid can stay or go. They aren’t too concerned. Makes all of us very sad but here we are.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 11:10
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. If he's happy and challenged, then let him be.
BTW, you knew he placement before the school year started. And their policies re: leveling must have been spelled out in their curriculum or US guide. Next time, do your homework.
Y’all need to take geometry before you show up for 9th grade. Do it as summer school.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 10:47
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My son started a at a private high school this year after being in public. It has been a good fit school in many ways for him, but the testing and grade structure has been an adjustment. Grades are fine...mostly B+'s which I am ok with freshman year, but his school will not let him take honors classes his sophomore year without A's for the year. He will have to excel in 10th grade for honors to be an option in 11th and then AP most likely will have to wait until 12th.
I feel like this is very likely going to really hurt his changes for a competitive college (NOT looking at ivies but more like the good state schools.Va Tech, Penn State, etc). I am really considering pulling him and sending him to JR where he can be challenged and take the courses he wants and needs. At this point moving up to take Calculus his senior year isn't even an option at the private which really concerns me. He wants to stay but will likely be really mad in 2 years if I let him. Not to mention I am paying all of this money for them to hold him back. Not sure what to do. And no we are not IB for JR so would have to rent there which is a whole different stress.
This is a big problem. You need to challenge it politely and ask for an exception.
It is the norm at many (most?) private schools. How did OP not realize that AP and honors are heavily gatekept at privates? OP, you can still usually get into an AP humanities class (not math or science) if you are not in honors the year prior as long as your kid has a high A, advocates with their current teacher, and does really well on the AP class essay entrance test. Good luck.
This is not something advertised/discussed as part of the admissions process. I only realized it at our school when reading the school handbook, which isn't available until you accept your offer of admission.
Our school is not so rigid about this, but there is gatekeeping. I agree with OP that the jump from MS to HS can be abrupt for some kids and a B+ average isn't completely indicative of ability to succeed in a honors class especially if there is improvement shown throughout the year, as OP indicated her child had shown. We are in a similar situation, but are fortunate our school isn't so rigid about this.
We've been considering private schools, and didn't know this. This would make me opt for public school instead. Our kids are smart, but I can't ensure they'll get As in all the classes I would want them to take APs for. I went to public school and took APs. I'm not going to spend 10s of thousands of dollars per year on tuition for my kids to not be able to do AP exams that colleges value.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 10:35
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My son started a at a private high school this year after being in public. It has been a good fit school in many ways for him, but the testing and grade structure has been an adjustment. Grades are fine...mostly B+'s which I am ok with freshman year, but his school will not let him take honors classes his sophomore year without A's for the year. He will have to excel in 10th grade for honors to be an option in 11th and then AP most likely will have to wait until 12th.
I feel like this is very likely going to really hurt his changes for a competitive college (NOT looking at ivies but more like the good state schools.Va Tech, Penn State, etc). I am really considering pulling him and sending him to JR where he can be challenged and take the courses he wants and needs. At this point moving up to take Calculus his senior year isn't even an option at the private which really concerns me. He wants to stay but will likely be really mad in 2 years if I let him. Not to mention I am paying all of this money for them to hold him back. Not sure what to do. And no we are not IB for JR so would have to rent there which is a whole different stress.
This is a big problem. You need to challenge it politely and ask for an exception.
It is the norm at many (most?) private schools. How did OP not realize that AP and honors are heavily gatekept at privates? OP, you can still usually get into an AP humanities class (not math or science) if you are not in honors the year prior as long as your kid has a high A, advocates with their current teacher, and does really well on the AP class essay entrance test. Good luck.
This is not something advertised/discussed as part of the admissions process. I only realized it at our school when reading the school handbook, which isn't available until you accept your offer of admission.
Our school is not so rigid about this, but there is gatekeeping. I agree with OP that the jump from MS to HS can be abrupt for some kids and a B+ average isn't completely indicative of ability to succeed in a honors class especially if there is improvement shown throughout the year, as OP indicated her child had shown. We are in a similar situation, but are fortunate our school isn't so rigid about this.
Anonymous
04/25/2024 10:32
Subject: A/B Student with no AP classes until senior year
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you just want the easy As so head on back to public school because you're barking up the wrong tree.
My kid took a few honors classes in areas he was good in- English and history. He didn't get into those classes until 11th grade and no APs until senior year when he took two. He got into all of the schools he applied to because he chose wisely.
Oh and just an FYI. Many private schools limit college applications to 10 or 12. If you don't like it, it's best you go back to public school now. They won't budge on that either.
Not at all true but I do want my kid to be someplace that will allow an advanced class without the exact needed grade, which varies. If I had a crystal ball and knew he would be ok for a few honors and/or AP jr year that would be ok too but I don't, and without wiggle room it's a huge risk to take. If a non honors mostly A student is looking at Towson or Delaware St as their best options I will pass on paying 25k a year for that. I imagine my son will largely apply to public universities so with the common app I fail to see how the school can limit these things. But if they can, it's a good question to ask and possibly another reason to go.
You want something for nothing. Head back to public school. Most people want th we or kids to get a better education so they send them to private school. MUCH higher expectations there, as you can see. But if you just want the As, whether they are deserved or not, go on back and live in fantasy land.
You are desperate to justify the 30-50K you're paying annually to send your kids to private school and not seeing the reality that this doesn't work for some kids. You don't want to spend that kind of money and have your kid excluded from challenging coursework--just because they're on the cusp of an A rather than an A. Not having APs on your transcript is a big deal.