Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dog was on his owner’s property. Where is the obligation to leave before shooting if the dog isn’t in physical contact with you? It’s not the same as a police situation where the police are entering a potentially volatile and violent situation, it just isn’t.

Can you shoot if the dog growls? How about if he approaches to sniff? What is the obligation of the visitor?

Not saying this guy should be prosecuted without evidence, but the idea that you can just shoot a dog because you are invited onto the property isn’t justifiable either.

IMO a loose dog needs to be in an enclosed area unless it's a farm. And I'm a full, absolute dog lover. I frequently visit farm properties where loose dogs approach visitors freely. I think for an instacart driver those property owners would secure the dog, but maybe they don't need to for the regular UPS guy who knows them. But if it's a suburban neighborhood, you need to secure your dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

I know a lot of people who were bitten by dogs, and I myself am afraid of large dogs...None of the dogs involved were shot, and I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog. There's something really odd about defending this man's actions. This wasn't the crazy type of attack you hear about in the news with enraged pit bulls.

So it sounds like you've never been bitten by a dog yourself.

I have, and I didn't shoot the dog (a small-medium dog, not a pit bull) because I don't own a gun. If I had pepper spray, I wouldn't hesitate to spray it, or do whatever I needed to protect myself.

I will not wait for contact again before defending my safety by any means. No dog should ever be lunging at someone, leashed or not. The onus is not on the public to be psychic and know your dog's personal temperament, or to wait until contact is made. It's 100% an owner's responsibility.

I think there's something really, really wrong with people defending lazy owners who aren't in control of their animals at all time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dog was on his owner’s property. Where is the obligation to leave before shooting if the dog isn’t in physical contact with you? It’s not the same as a police situation where the police are entering a potentially volatile and violent situation, it just isn’t.

Can you shoot if the dog growls? How about if he approaches to sniff? What is the obligation of the visitor?

Not saying this guy should be prosecuted without evidence, but the idea that you can just shoot a dog because you are invited onto the property isn’t justifiable either.

IMO a loose dog needs to be in an enclosed area unless it's a farm. And I'm a full, absolute dog lover. I frequently visit farm properties where loose dogs approach visitors freely. I think for an instacart driver those property owners would secure the dog, but maybe they don't need to for the regular UPS guy who knows them. But if it's a suburban neighborhood, you need to secure your dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

I know a lot of people who were bitten by dogs, and I myself am afraid of large dogs...None of the dogs involved were shot, and I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog. There's something really odd about defending this man's actions. This wasn't the crazy type of attack you hear about in the news with enraged pit bulls.

So it sounds like you've never been bitten by a dog yourself.

I have, and I didn't shoot the dog (a small-medium dog, not a pit bull) because I don't own a gun. If I had pepper spray, I wouldn't hesitate to spray it, or do whatever I needed to protect myself.

I will not wait for contact again before defending my safety by any means. No dog should ever be lunging at someone, leashed or not. The onus is not on the public to be psychic and know your dog's personal temperament, or to wait until contact is made. It's 100% an owner's responsibility.

I think there's something really, really wrong with people defending lazy owners who aren't in control of their animals at all time.

If you shot at a leashed dog who “lunged” at you, you would rightly be prosecuted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

I know a lot of people who were bitten by dogs, and I myself am afraid of large dogs...None of the dogs involved were shot, and I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog. There's something really odd about defending this man's actions. This wasn't the crazy type of attack you hear about in the news with enraged pit bulls.

So it sounds like you've never been bitten by a dog yourself.

I have, and I didn't shoot the dog (a small-medium dog, not a pit bull) because I don't own a gun. If I had pepper spray, I wouldn't hesitate to spray it, or do whatever I needed to protect myself.

I will not wait for contact again before defending my safety by any means. No dog should ever be lunging at someone, leashed or not. The onus is not on the public to be psychic and know your dog's personal temperament, or to wait until contact is made. It's 100% an owner's responsibility.

I think there's something really, really wrong with people defending lazy owners who aren't in control of their animals at all time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

I know a lot of people who were bitten by dogs, and I myself am afraid of large dogs...None of the dogs involved were shot, and I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog. There's something really odd about defending this man's actions. This wasn't the crazy type of attack you hear about in the news with enraged pit bulls.

So it sounds like you've never been bitten by a dog yourself.

I have, and I didn't shoot the dog (a small-medium dog, not a pit bull) because I don't own a gun. If I had pepper spray, I wouldn't hesitate to spray it, or do whatever I needed to protect myself.

I will not wait for contact again before defending my safety by any means. No dog should ever be lunging at someone, leashed or not. The onus is not on the public to be psychic and know your dog's personal temperament, or to wait until contact is made. It's 100% an owner's responsibility.

I think there's something really, really wrong with people defending lazy owners who aren't in control of their animals at all time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

That doesn't matter. Dogs bite - ALL dogs are capable of biting. 4.5 MILLION Americans are bitten by dogs every single year. Pit bulls are responsible for more lethal attacks, but all breeds are represented in the dog bite statistics. These statistics are readily available many places online, go google it. GSDs are in the top 5 or 10 of lethal attacks and are a notoriously aggressive (POLICE DOGS, anyone?) breed which are quite often poorly trained in the hands of regular Joe owners.

Out of the 4.5 million people who are bitten by dogs every year, many of them develop ptsd and lifelong fear of dogs. They are not going to do a doggy dna test on the dog charging at them before deciding to be fearful for their well being. A dog that looks like a shepherd is going to scare a lot of people when it charges at them. I used to own a very sweet shepherd mix that I could clearly see some people were fearful of, because she was a shepherd and black to boot (black dogs are euthanized at 4x the rate of other dogs at animal shelters). I now have a freckle faced border collie mix that people beg me to pet when we are out on a walk.

People have fears of dogs for legitimate reasons. The eggshell-plaintiff doctrine protects the rights of a plaintiff whose pre-existing fragility makes them particularly susceptible to injury. The tort-feasor takes the injured plaintiff as she is found.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

I know a lot of people who were bitten by dogs, and I myself am afraid of large dogs...None of the dogs involved were shot, and I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog. There's something really odd about defending this man's actions. This wasn't the crazy type of attack you hear about in the news with enraged pit bulls.

Anonymous wrote:The dog was on his owner’s property. Where is the obligation to leave before shooting if the dog isn’t in physical contact with you? It’s not the same as a police situation where the police are entering a potentially volatile and violent situation, it just isn’t.

Can you shoot if the dog growls? How about if he approaches to sniff? What is the obligation of the visitor?

Not saying this guy should be prosecuted without evidence, but the idea that you can just shoot a dog because you are invited onto the property isn’t justifiable either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

I know a lot of people who were bitten by dogs, and I myself am afraid of large dogs...None of the dogs involved were shot, and I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog. There's something really odd about defending this man's actions. This wasn't the crazy type of attack you hear about in the news with enraged pit bulls.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone who shoots a little dog not actually physically on them rather than just go back to their car is deranged and is going to shoot someone eventually. The man was delivering illegally, carrying a loaded weapon to people's homes? Noooo. I keep my dog inside but there is one person more in the wrong here, and that's trigger-happy weirdo.

Finally a sensible person.

Yes, I think people should contain and control their dogs. Yes, I think Angie Harmon was a bad dog owner. But to act like going straight to SHOOTING a dog because you feel threatened is a justified action is sick.

Per Angie's version of the story there was no wound on the delivery guy. [b]Shoot a dog if you need to get it to let go of your leg. But shooting a dog because it barked aggressively at you and got close to you? Come on people, this is not reasonable.[/b]

You think shooting at your leg or foot is reasonable? Nope. You are not required to be injured before you act in self-defense. You do not need to allow a guy to punch you before defending yourself and you don't need to allow a dog to bite you before defending yourself.

The DOJ estimates that police shoot 10,000 pet dogs annually in the line of duty. The number is really just a guess because police departments don't track these deaths any better than they do the killings of human citizens they engage in - it is very likely a far higher number, I found one article online asserting that experts suggest the number could reach six figures.

Police don't wait to be bitten to shoot and kill a pet dog. When a dog runs at them, as a dog in a yard will do when a stranger enters its space (dogs are by nature and desire territorial), the majority of police will just shoot it, straight out.

But those killings are probably okay with poster because the owners aren't glamorous actors and probably engaged in some kind of thuggery or the police wouldn't even be there, right? (Never mind that there are documented cases of police entering the wrong property to serve warrants and executing pet dogs who were present.)

How much mauling is the person supposed to endure before engaging in defense of self?

We are talking about a SCHEDULED DELIVERY and a dog owner who left the dog outside, unsupervised and unsecured, during the time of the scheduled delivery. Because her dog is a sweetheart and would never hurt anyone - same thing we hear from every clueless dog owner in the aftermath of both lethal and nonlethal maulings.

There was no mauling in this case.

Are you thick?

Police don't wait to be mauled to shoot a charging dog, they shoot at the threat in self defense - just like this driver did.

There is no duty to be mauled before engaging in self defense. Dog owners have a duty to secure their dogs, both in public spaces with leashes, and on their own property when they have INVITED A GUEST on the property.

I’m not thick at all. You are comparing maulings and police shootings of dogs in high pressure situations to what happened here - a family dog, an invited delivery guy, and no physical contact.

No, you have reading comprehension issues. I clearly stated:

Police don't wait to be bitten to shoot and kill a pet dog. When a dog runs at them, as a dog in a yard will do when a stranger enters its space (dogs are by nature and desire territorial), the majority of police will just shoot it, straight out.

Police kill pet dogs in many situations, by no means are all of them high stress SWAT type interactions.

It is foolish to leave a dog unattended and loose, even if your own yard - ESPECIALLY when you KNOW a visitor/stranger is scheduled to come into your yard.

Clearly there are many people here who just don't want to acknowledge that this was poor stewardship of the dog and they are probably people who engage in the same poor stewardship and want to have no accountability for it.

I feel sorry for Angie's dogs, and anyone else who does the same thing and would blame someone else for reacting in self defense to a charging dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.