Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:24     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My child is interested in a very niche major that is not available in any VA public schools. Even with the academic common market, her only in state options are two schools in Kentucky.


If you can afford it, godspeed.


Equestrian?
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:21     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.


Ability to pay when that ability means constant struggle, isn’t really comfortable.

Families with more than one kid and $250-300k don’t get financial aid. Paying $180-200k/year for kids’ tuition isn’t easy.


You save starting at birth, consider your spending and live way below your means.


We did. We can send both kids to in-state public university for 4 years with what is in their 529s right now...around $130-140k each.

But not $360k each. Which is fine. We own two homes--just not selling one or pulling equity out. Building wealth requires choices. Solid in-state and then $ for a good grad or house downpayment.


And people seem to forget---your kid can earn $10K+ per year (likely $15K) by working during the breaks/summer and having a PT job (10 hours/wk) while at college. Do that and in-state is much more affordable.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:20     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:Too much whining. There are also cars that cost $400,000. If you don’t want to pay that, there are reliable options that are a fraction of that. Same with colleges.

Community colleges, GI Bill, colleges away from the coasts, graduate in 3 years etc. Out-of-state merit aid at large public universities in unglamorous states can be amazing even if kid isn’t brilliant.


Exactly this, we are fortunate to have excellent education opportunities at every price point.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:19     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


But not really. The whole reason people talk about a donut hole is that extraordinary kids from lower middle class families (up to $85k, which is 55th percentile HHI) go to elite private universities for free, and extraordinary kids from true middle class families (up to $150k, which is 80th percentile HHI) go for $15k or less. Those kids are not going to state schools. They’re going to elite private schools, because for them it’s cheaper than going to state schools.


The vast majority of kids from families making 150K or less are NOT attending elite private schools. They are going to their state U or whatever 4 year is local to them so they can live at home, work and attend school. Or they start at CC and transfer for last 2 years to make it affordable. That is the reality. Sure if you get into an elite school you will get FA, but it's not even on the radar for most kids from households below $100-150K.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:17     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.


Ability to pay when that ability means constant struggle, isn’t really comfortable.

Families with more than one kid and $250-300k don’t get financial aid. Paying $180-200k/year for kids’ tuition isn’t easy.


I'm a family with two kids at 130k. We haven't been offered squat. $5500 loan for each.


Then you are not searching at the right schools. Plenty of T100 schools (and beyond) offer excellent FA for those that qualify, along with excellent merit aid (from 50+)
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:15     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.


Ability to pay is often at the cost of liquidating retirement funds, home equity, life style and nursing home savings.


Shouldn't be. The top schools have excellent need based FA. Many who would be a fafsa doughnut hole would get FA. To be paying full price means, you are well off in earnings and non-retirement assets. Even home equity is often capped (not 2nd or 3rd home of course).

The real problem is failing to save. No one should expect to cashflow college. We started saving when kids in elementary and thought we were late to the game.



Bullsh. First of all, by the time you get to college aged kids, you may be making the most salary you've made. But almost no one makes that their entire career. We saved and save a LOT. We have old cars. No second home. No generational wealth. We have good retirement. Those are the things we've funded: college and retirement.

But all of those things are counted against us, as if we can cashflow $50-90k/year. We can't. And we aren't getting aid. We've made our peace with the schools are high stats kid can go (based on finances) and have had to forego much better schools b/c of money. It should not be this way.

I get that those of you not as well off like to dump on higher earners (UMC) to make yourselves feel better. But we've done everything right. Both coming from just above poverty line upbringings. The "American Dream" of work hard and good things flow from that is a bunch of horse sh-- when it comes to college admissions and sending your kids to the best school. The very wealthy get that opportunity. The poor get that opportunity. No one else.


Bs back atcha. We made a lot less (like less than 70k) early on and saved what we could. It didn't count that much against us. Home equity didn't count against us -- we focused on schools that capped or didn't include hone equity. Even a few that did had good NPC numbers. We are middle class, not poor. We have good 529 savings. We also got decent aid at several schools. We focused on private schools where we'd be eligible based on NPCs and targeted state schools that would be more affordable.

My whole point is that no one should expect to cash flow college. You either didn't plan the savings or the college app choices well enough. There are lots of options with different price tags if you make over 300k and didn't save. Barring medical costs or unforeseen financial crises (and those can be included in Fa apps/appeals), I just don't get the rage on this. If we had the means to save 100k per kid going from 70k to 140k over the years, why can't people who make more save more? Even savings of 200k per kid plus loans and some cashflow would cover most schools.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:15     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous. Send your kid to a decent public school - there are plenty of them.


Most likely what we are doing- W&M or UVA

I just read all these people fighting over prestige and it’s crazy. My kid got into many of these schools they are raving about, but not worth the $.


Don't say you don't care about prestige and then throw out you're planning on UVA or W&M. GMAFB.


They are applying to their top in state schools. Just so happens that VA has two very good state schools. If they lived in Iowa they'd be applying to Iowa and ISU
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:14     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous. Send your kid to a decent public school - there are plenty of them.


Most likely what we are doing- W&M or UVA

I just read all these people fighting over prestige and it’s crazy. My kid got into many of these schools they are raving about, but not worth the $.


Pot, meet kettle


No they are simply choosing to attend one of their very good state schools. Obviously most kids apply to their top 2-3 state schools, it just so happens that VA has more "top schools" than most states.

Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:12     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it's ridiculous. Send your kid to a decent public school - there are plenty of them.


Most likely what we are doing- W&M or UVA

I just read all these people fighting over prestige and it’s crazy. My kid got into many of these schools they are raving about, but not worth the $.


Only worth it if the $400K is completely saved for college and without any negative implications for retirement or other savings. Otherwise, go to the more affordable schools
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:10     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is a thread like this every year. The top privates have no problem finding full pay kids.


A lot of them could not get into the top schools in their own state, UMD, UVA, W&M, and the parents want prestige name still or equivalent education.

I find in our UMC if a kid gets into top in-state flagship they go there---if not--they go to an OOS state flagship or the parents suck it up for a private.


That simply isn’t true. MD instate has an acceptance rate over 40 percent and even UVA is well over 20 percent instate. Meanwhile, even privates like BU have a 10 percent acceptance rate.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 12:08     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.


Ability to pay is often at the cost of liquidating retirement funds, home equity, life style and nursing home savings.


Shouldn't be. The top schools have excellent need based FA. Many who would be a fafsa doughnut hole would get FA. To be paying full price means, you are well off in earnings and non-retirement assets. Even home equity is often capped (not 2nd or 3rd home of course).

The real problem is failing to save. No one should expect to cashflow college. We started saving when kids in elementary and thought we were late to the game.



Bullsh. First of all, by the time you get to college aged kids, you may be making the most salary you've made. But almost no one makes that their entire career. We saved and save a LOT. We have old cars. No second home. No generational wealth. We have good retirement. Those are the things we've funded: college and retirement.

But all of those things are counted against us, as if we can cashflow $50-90k/year. We can't. And we aren't getting aid. We've made our peace with the schools are high stats kid can go (based on finances) and have had to forego much better schools b/c of money. It should not be this way.

I get that those of you not as well off like to dump on higher earners (UMC) to make yourselves feel better. But we've done everything right. Both coming from just above poverty line upbringings. The "American Dream" of work hard and good things flow from that is a bunch of horse sh-- when it comes to college admissions and sending your kids to the best school. The very wealthy get that opportunity. The poor get that opportunity. No one else.


You live under your means, you save starting at birth and when your income increases you save it vs changing your spending.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 11:58     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.


Ability to pay is often at the cost of liquidating retirement funds, home equity, life style and nursing home savings.


Shouldn't be. The top schools have excellent need based FA. Many who would be a fafsa doughnut hole would get FA. To be paying full price means, you are well off in earnings and non-retirement assets. Even home equity is often capped (not 2nd or 3rd home of course).

The real problem is failing to save. No one should expect to cashflow college. We started saving when kids in elementary and thought we were late to the game.



Bullsh. First of all, by the time you get to college aged kids, you may be making the most salary you've made. But almost no one makes that their entire career. We saved and save a LOT. We have old cars. No second home. No generational wealth. We have good retirement. Those are the things we've funded: college and retirement.

But all of those things are counted against us, as if we can cashflow $50-90k/year. We can't. And we aren't getting aid. We've made our peace with the schools are high stats kid can go (based on finances) and have had to forego much better schools b/c of money. It should not be this way.

I get that those of you not as well off like to dump on higher earners (UMC) to make yourselves feel better. But we've done everything right. Both coming from just above poverty line upbringings. The "American Dream" of work hard and good things flow from that is a bunch of horse sh-- when it comes to college admissions and sending your kids to the best school. The very wealthy get that opportunity. The poor get that opportunity. No one else.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 11:58     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.


Ability to pay when that ability means constant struggle, isn’t really comfortable.

Families with more than one kid and $250-300k don’t get financial aid. Paying $180-200k/year for kids’ tuition isn’t easy.


You save starting at birth, consider your spending and live way below your means.


We did that, and we still do that. We had around $150k HHI when our kids were born, and we've only recently gotten close to $250k HHI. We've had significant medical expenses in recent years that fortunately weren't catastrophic, but did impact our ability to save for college.

My kid just got into BC. We are delighted and very proud. They offered us loans only. We are going to continue living below our means, and send DC to a highly-regarded option that costs less than half of this.


Did you note your medical expenses in css? You might appeal on that basis....
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 11:54     Subject: Donut hole reality
OP I don't know if this has been asked already but why did your kid apply to these expensive colleges? Had you not looked at the finance at that point? Were you hoping they'd get merit aid or scholarships?

It just strikes me as a monumental waste of time, effort, a small amount of cash and ultimately the hopes of your kid.
Anonymous
Post 03/26/2024 11:52     Subject: Donut hole reality
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.


This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.


Ability to pay when that ability means constant struggle, isn’t really comfortable.

Families with more than one kid and $250-300k don’t get financial aid. Paying $180-200k/year for kids’ tuition isn’t easy.


I'm a family with two kids at 130k. We haven't been offered squat. $5500 loan for each.


Where did your kids apply? Of course nothing at state schools, but mine got offered need based at almost every private, mid to top tier, and we make a little more than you.