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Anonymous wrote:Which non-honors schools would you Penn State honors program over? UMD? UVA? Michigan? T30 schools?

Honors programs are a stats grab. If you get and need the merit, that’s one thing. But if full pay, I’d Definitely choose any T30, including UVA and Mich over Penn State.

Thanks. No merit aid here (yet). Not sure any aid is forthcoming. Deciding between Michigan and Penn State Honors.

Look at the coursework at PSU honors. The good programs have coursework not just perks.

Unless the job placement of PSU honors is demonstrably superior to non honors…not sure why the coursework matters.

A social environment than brings high-achievers together is good. Think of the difference between students in AP classes as a large public school vs those in on-level classes

Except...98% of your classes won't be with other high-achievers...just a small number of "honors" classes. Are you claiming PSU basically has an AP-track for many majors?

Bingo. It's not like they have one regular English/physics/computer science class and then the "honors" version of each of those classes, as in high school. "Honors" classes usually just refer to the extra honors courses you have to take in addition to your regular coursework. It has nothing to do with your actual major.

https://www-math.umd.edu/undergraduate/opportunities.html?id=101#:~:text=The%20Mathematics%20Department%20offers%20an,earning%20a%20University%20Honors%20Citation.

Math 2314/15 at UVA

https://www-math.umd.edu/undergraduate/opportunities.html?id=101#:~:text=The%20Mathematics%20Department%20offers%20an,earning%20a%20University%20Honors%20Citation.

https://www.math.uga.edu/undergraduate-honors-courses

https://ccs.ucsb.edu/courses

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Anonymous wrote:Making college lists. Curious which colleges have top notch honors programs and why? And separately, are there any honors programs that are heads and shoulders above the rest of the school? A school that may not have the strongest academics, but the honors program is so strong that it outweighs that lack of strength? Or does a school have to have decent academics overall to make the honors program excellent?

*A lot of them
*Smaller classes and more experienced professors
*Most of them
*It's called graduate school
*Preferably

Srsly OP, it depends on the major and the school.

What is your real question?

Plus, peers in the honors classes and housing tend to be higher performing and achieving. All of the above impacts peer group and class discussion.

And again, "Honors" classes in college aren't going to be your academic/major classes. They are separate classes, specific to the honors college. Your peer group will depend on what your major is.

This depends on the school. Many schools have honors versions of intro courses, and some of these schools limit them to students in the honors college

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Anonymous wrote:Which non-honors schools would you Penn State honors program over? UMD? UVA? Michigan? T30 schools?

Honors programs are a stats grab. If you get and need the merit, that’s one thing. But if full pay, I’d Definitely choose any T30, including UVA and Mich over Penn State.

Thanks. No merit aid here (yet). Not sure any aid is forthcoming. Deciding between Michigan and Penn State Honors.

Look at the coursework at PSU honors. The good programs have coursework not just perks.

Unless the job placement of PSU honors is demonstrably superior to non honors…not sure why the coursework matters.

A social environment than brings high-achievers together is good. Think of the difference between students in AP classes as a large public school vs those in on-level classes

Except...98% of your classes won't be with other high-achievers...just a small number of "honors" classes. Are you claiming PSU basically has an AP-track for many majors?

Bingo. It's not like they have one regular English/physics/computer science class and then the "honors" version of each of those classes, as in high school. "Honors" classes usually just refer to the extra honors courses you have to take in addition to your regular coursework. It has nothing to do with your actual major.

STEM majors at state universities have accelerated, enriched honors courses for the intro level, which put students in separate courses from the base major. These are followed by upper level courses a that are a year ahead of the base major and more advanced topics than base majors take.

UMD calls these courses "advanced rigor" in the catalog. Sound familiar?

Flagship state universities are so large and so affordable that they have "mini Ivies" inside them. Small, expensive "good" private schools might not have this.

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Anonymous wrote:Making college lists. Curious which colleges have top notch honors programs and why? And separately, are there any honors programs that are heads and shoulders above the rest of the school? A school that may not have the strongest academics, but the honors program is so strong that it outweighs that lack of strength? Or does a school have to have decent academics overall to make the honors program excellent?

*A lot of them
*Smaller classes and more experienced professors
*Most of them
*It's called graduate school
*Preferably

Srsly OP, it depends on the major and the school.

What is your real question?

Plus, peers in the honors classes and housing tend to be higher performing and achieving. All of the above impacts peer group and class discussion.

And again, "Honors" classes in college aren't going to be your academic/major classes. They are separate classes, specific to the honors college. Your peer group will depend on what your major is.

Not true at UMD which has an Honors track and Honors classes in some majors. These are different, accelerated and enriched classes for the top students that the professors are grooming for grad school.

The word Honors is very overused.

Do you have a sampling of the Majors. If your kid has little to no interest in Grad school, will they find it less interesting/just extra work?

I have seen in previous posts many people talking about how their kid dropped out of UMD Honors because of "extra work with little to no job/commercial benefit".

Never quite understood the complaints.

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Anonymous wrote:Making college lists. Curious which colleges have top notch honors programs and why? And separately, are there any honors programs that are heads and shoulders above the rest of the school? A school that may not have the strongest academics, but the honors program is so strong that it outweighs that lack of strength? Or does a school have to have decent academics overall to make the honors program excellent?

*A lot of them
*Smaller classes and more experienced professors
*Most of them
*It's called graduate school
*Preferably

Srsly OP, it depends on the major and the school.

What is your real question?

Plus, peers in the honors classes and housing tend to be higher performing and achieving. All of the above impacts peer group and class discussion.

And again, "Honors" classes in college aren't going to be your academic/major classes. They are separate classes, specific to the honors college. Your peer group will depend on what your major is.

Not true at UMD which has an Honors track and Honors classes in some majors. These are different, accelerated and enriched classes for the top students that the professors are grooming for grad school.

The word Honors is very overused.

Anonymous wrote:George Mason has excellent honors program(s).

How about JMU?

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Anonymous wrote:I’d do Penn State over Michigan just on cost. Assuming you’re OOS for both. If the honors college is good, that’s a bonus.

I’d choose Mich over Penn state on employer recruitment alone.

I always wonder who has so much knowledge regarding two separate universities that they have the expertise to come up with a comparison like this. Can you do it for any two universities?

We have one in Clemson not honors and one in honors. They do get pretty good housing and early registration. But they also get free tickets for performances at the theater, reimbursement for conferences, travel stipend for an educational experience and some other benefits. They definitely get more advice from professors/counselors. I would not it is enough to make a non honors kid envious but my honors kid does seem to like and take advantage of the perks.

Anonymous wrote:George Mason has excellent honors program(s).

PP could you share what you like about the George Mason honors program?

George Mason has excellent honors program(s).

I was technically in the honors program at my state school in the 90s but honestly after being honors/AP tracked all through high school I just wanted to be a “normal” student and never took an honors course.

Actually I was signed up for honors western civilization at the beginning of freshman year but I walked in, saw two girls from my high school, and walked right back out and dropped the class.

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Anonymous wrote:Making college lists. Curious which colleges have top notch honors programs and why? And separately, are there any honors programs that are heads and shoulders above the rest of the school? A school that may not have the strongest academics, but the honors program is so strong that it outweighs that lack of strength? Or does a school have to have decent academics overall to make the honors program excellent?

*A lot of them
*Smaller classes and more experienced professors
*Most of them
*It's called graduate school
*Preferably

Srsly OP, it depends on the major and the school.

What is your real question?

Plus, peers in the honors classes and housing tend to be higher performing and achieving. All of the above impacts peer group and class discussion.

And again, "Honors" classes in college aren't going to be your academic/major classes. They are separate classes, specific to the honors college. Your peer group will depend on what your major is.

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Anonymous wrote:Are students in the Honors Programs all merry? My kid is interested in a honors program, but also wants to be in a Sorority and likes to be around a diverse group of people. Not students who are single minded about their classes.

Nerdy. Sorry, phone autocorrected it.

Nerdy and sorority .... hmmm, what do you think?

You really think sororities are diverse? They are definitely not single-minded about their classes. Maybe about their next party.

Lol DD is in an honors program and on the executive board of her sorority. She’s the type that can make even a sorority “nerdy” I guess. And she’s POC. So in this respect the PP is right - you can be diverse in a sorority!

I’m not the the PP you’re responding to but another PP who said sororities aren’t going to be diverse. But I wasn’t taking about race, I meant a more narrow interest and culture. I was not trying to knock Greek life, but just saying you don’t join the Greek system to increase the diversity of who you hang out with. Both honors colleges and Greek systems are selective so they’re by definition going to select certain types of people. Your kid just happens to fit both profiles so good for her!

Thanks PP. I do agree that the sorority thing is more about conforming to fit into the sorority rather than expressing oneself and in that sense being diverse. The OP's kid could get diversity by doing Greek life plus a few other things.

I am OP and have not been posting the comments about Greek life.

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Anonymous wrote:I was in the honors program at a big 10 school. I would tell my kids to go to the best school they can. Not pick a school that has a good honors program. No one really cares about that.

+1

Agreed, go to college, learn, and have fun. No one will care whether you go to Michigan or Michigan Honors. NO ONE, trust me.

After a while, no one will even care if you went to Michigan, as long as you have a degree, maybe.

For real ....

It won't matter for the jobs, maybe, but it will matter for the experience, right? Why do people join frats and sororities? To find communities they have a lot in common with. For those kids who don't want to party, but want to meet other kids who are passionate about learning, honors colleges are a great option.

I don't know...I don't really equate the two. You can have high stats and get accepted into an Honors College but not be terribly passionate about learning. There are definitely many kids that are after the ability to register for classes early and a good dorm vs. any social connection.

I agree with you that it's not a perfect correlation, but there is definitely some correlation. I'll still bet that it's easier for a kid who is passionate about learning to find others like them in an honors college vs in a random sample of a huge state school population.

DP. My kid attends a large state school and declined the honors program. She also had no desire to join a sorority. Instead, she joined organizations within her major and others having to do with her personal interests - she's met great friends through both, as well as become part of the leadership of these groups. Honors colleges are fine, but they're certainly not the only way to meet like-minded people.

Anonymous wrote:I was in the honors program at a big 10 school. I would tell my kids to go to the best school they can. Not pick a school that has a good honors program. No one really cares about that.

Exactly.