Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are conservative Jews who want to send our kids to Jewish day school. The only non orthodox option in our area starts at 30k for kindergarten and increases progressively, up to 50k for high school.

Our HHI is around 480-500k. We have two kids. I want a third, but the idea of three tuitions is incredibly stressful. I would not be sending to private school on our income - which I realize is objectively fairly high - if Jewish day school were not a priority. Summer camp is also a fortune.

A lot of people at the school get financial aid, apparently even with incomes like ours, which is insane but a separate topic.

How does anyone who isn’t a law partner afford to send kids to Jewish day schools?

The modern orthodox schools are less expensive, but we are not aligned with this philosophy or level of observance. Socially we’d also be pariahs.

Not so much looking for advice as much as I am for a dialogue on how other people manage the expense.

We sent our kid to one, but not for the early elementary years. We didn't think we could afford it. When we finally applied, we were surprised that we did get some financial aid, although the cost was still around 20K. It wasn't easy, but we managed it for a few years at least. Mostly we saved less and didn't take expensive vacations or really do much of anything expensive. The school didn't have a high school, so we are in public now, as the only high schools were far from us and also started at 30K. Even with aid, we couldn't do that. What I will say is that it was worth it. We're not even very religious (I would say more secular than anything), but it really was worth every penny. I regret not doing it sooner, and wish we could afford HS too. However, our HHI is a mere 200K, so I'm surprised you can't afford it.

I'm a little confused by your mention of "modern orthodox" schools vs day schools. Admittedly, I'm not that well-versed in Judaism in spite of being Jewish - but at our day school there was a whole range of families, from secular to chabadniks. I can't imagine anyone being a social pariah there for practicing any version of Judaism, or even none at all. But perhaps because I'm not really involved with the religion I don't perceive the differences as acutely as you do. But certainly neither I nor any of my friends would treat anyone like a pariah for any reason related to their religious practice or lack thereof.

Op here. Thanks for this perspective. It is very important to me but a huge expense for multiple kids.

In terms of denominations and schooling- I went to a modern orthodox day school growing up. Meaning everyone observed Shabbat (no driving etc) and kept kosher in the home. Most people also kept kosher outside the home. We “looked” secular in that women did not wear wigs, women dressed normally etc. we didn’t even go to synagogue often, but our world was very insular.

As an adult we do not really observe Shabbat and we eat everything except pork. Modern orthodox families who do not use electronics on Shabbat, or who do not eat in regular restaurants, would not want their kids hanging out with ours - it’s considered a bad influence to expose kids to doing those things a lot, because obviously a modern orthodox lifestyle is very particular. Obviously they cannot control their kids being in school with ours, but they wouldn’t want their kids really socializing with ours outside of school, or wouldn’t trust their kids to eat at our house or have them here on weekends when it’s shabbas. Nor do we want our kids to feel pressured by their social environment and school philosophy to be more observant.

In addition, a lot of modern orthodox life revolves around observing shabbat and holidays. Modern orthodox live within compact walking distant communities and spend Shabbat dinners and lunches together. We wouldn’t be in that world. It would be isolating for my kids overall. I know because I grew up in that world. It’s very insular. There are great things about the community, but it’s just very insular and small.

The day school we’re considering is pluralistic, so families will be any denomination, but mostly secular/conservative families attend.

Anonymous wrote:The simple math is that if you are spending $150,000 on schools, you live otherwise like people making $150,000 (after tax) less but send our kids to public schools.

Another way to think about it is that you will be spending very roughly $500,000 on tuition over 13 years, so you have to work another year or two for each kid's tuition.

Clearly it's costly and would make a difference in your life, and we can't tell you the right decision, but you'd be giving up luxuries, not needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, it’s worth it to you or it’s not. I pay $37k on $225 HHI, leaving $188k. I don’t mind at all because I know it’s how I want to spend my money. If you had three kids you’d be paying (at worst) $150 on $480, leaving $330. Clearly you can afford it, but it is perfectly OK if you don’t think it’s worth it. It’s your money and you get to choose how to spend it.

presumable you are taking home about 180k after taxes, which means you are living on 133k, which is about 10k a month and needs to include are, mortgage, health insurance, and everything else!

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

Yes, if you need to. You think you should get aid and go on fancy vacations?

Op here. No I do not. But on the other hand, the financial aid system at this school is broken because if I don’t get aid, I am subsidizing other families with stay at home parents making 75k bar mitzvahs who have the gall to apply for and take aid. So - I don’t feel like making an enormous financial sacrifice to subsidize other people’s leisurely lifestyles. The majority of people at this school get financial aid, and instead, they could just make tuition more affordable so it’s more generally accessible.

What I have an issue with is the lack of transparency. If I make 450k and use half of my post-tax income to pay for tuition, forgoing other expenses, while another family with the same income applies and receives aid, it’s not a fair or efficient system.

How do you know that other families with the same income as you are getting aid? (Also, why are they giving aid to people who earn $450k a year?)

My main observation on this reply, though, is that I hope my kid is never invited to a $75k bar mitzvah -- I already feel guilty about theirs, which we're trying to bring in for under $30k, total.

I know because I know people receiving aid. I know many families at the school and people talk.

Yes, we also hope not to be roped into crazy bar mitzvahs. We hope to do something modest at home and then a family trip to Israel. But difficult when your kids are in circles of outrageous parties. I personally know someone at our school who receives financial aid and has the following lifestyle:

- grew up very affluent (knew them growing up)
- Never had a real job. Has stayed at home since marrying young.
- wears many designer bags
- has several children
- lives in an owned, not-inexpensive house
- has extended family paying what tuition financial aid does not cover

Another person I know at the school receiving aid also has grandparents paying. Grandparents also own their house in some kind of trust.

A third family I knew receiving aid does not have family help but has a similar HHI to ours. Both parents work. Also live in a not-inexpensive house. Their lifestyle is average and similar to ours - UMC but with school being a major expense for them. We have had conversations about the very stressful financial costs of Jewish life.

Oh and the first financial aid situation I cited also made a crazy bat mitzvah recently, complete with a party planner.

Anonymous wrote:Look, it’s worth it to you or it’s not. I pay $37k on $225 HHI, leaving $188k. I don’t mind at all because I know it’s how I want to spend my money. If you had three kids you’d be paying (at worst) $150 on $480, leaving $330. Clearly you can afford it, but it is perfectly OK if you don’t think it’s worth it. It’s your money and you get to choose how to spend it.