Anonymous wrote:Seems like this is getting more common, especially at T20 pressure cooker type schools.

It's not worth it to me. I know tons of people who went to run of the mill state schools and became smashing successes. They actually got to enjoy their college experience along the way.

Roll Tide.

Nice data gathering and analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbfT1FIapzM

Heartbroken to hear this

I do think that students today struggle more due to the pandemic, social media and its effects, as well as not coming from schools that challenged them so they in for a rude awakening when they get to a college and lack their usual supports.

I do think testing does help predict a bit more the students who can handle these environments. The test optional trend is not that helpful in an age of rampant grade inflation to help sort who can handle these pressure cooker situations.

I was bewildered when I had a twenty-something complain to me that they had to work and have a job in their post college life when their billionaire friends don't have to work at all after college. This person was in the top 1 percent of family wealth. So many young people see so much what they don't have and not the other way around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like this is getting more common, especially at T20 pressure cooker type schools.

It's not worth it to me. I know tons of people who went to run of the mill state schools and became smashing successes. They actually got to enjoy their college experience along the way.

Roll Tide.

Sure you did…tons of them, even though the vast majority just live perfectly fine lives and their median incomes aren’t anywhere near a smashing success.

At least they're alive.

Go Gators.

Anonymous wrote:Can any parents of current students speak to the climate on campus?

They aren’t all suicides. At least one was an accidental overdose.

I don’t know. My husband went to Princeton for graduate school so it’s a bit different than undergrad but it’s work! It’s hard! You need to study and I think a lot of high schools have inflated grades and people aren’t used to doing the work. They get an A in high school now for what used to be a B grade!

It isn’t all fun and games, it isn’t vacation. My husband was working and studying, doing problem sets, etc all the time. We went to events and had friends over, but his work was studying and he did well over 40 hours a week!

He was there to get his degree (he graduated in the last 10 years) , but it was also a great time for both of us. He loved his experience at Princeton and felt very supported. I love the university and think the alumni network is the best there is. You contact an alumni and 9/10 they will get back to you very soon. They want to help. Reunions are literally the best party you will ever attend. if you ask for help or are struggling the university has many ways to help.

The programs haven’t gotten any harder from when I went to school. I think social media and the like has made life harder for some people. I think people who glided through high school as the top student have a rude awakening when they go to a top school and are no longer #1. There is also a lot of wealth at the Ivy schools so I think some people feel ostracized due to that.

I have a cousin at another Ivy and he grew up in a 1% family they own a $2+ million dollar home and another second beach home. Fancy vacations, nice life, yet he sees these billionaires at his schools and people with $10 million dollar homes and feels very inadequate. He also realizes he is no longer the smartest person in the room. Kids need to be prepared and I don’t think some of them are prepared.

Look at the Columbia professor who was let go because students complained his class was too hard. These schools are not for everyone and I hope admissions committees start realizing that. You need to find the right fit and even if you get into a place like Princeton it may not be the right fit for you.

Anonymous wrote:Seems like this is getting more common, especially at T20 pressure cooker type schools.

It's not worth it to me. I know tons of people who went to run of the mill state schools and became smashing successes. They actually got to enjoy their college experience along the way.

Roll Tide.

Sure you did…tons of them, even though the vast majority just live perfectly fine lives and their median incomes aren’t anywhere near a smashing success.

Anonymous wrote:These kids are on a never-ending treadmill. It makes me so sad. Within a few months of showing up at a top school after knocking themselves out in HS, they are already worried about getting a succession of impressive, crowd-pleasing summer internships. Everything has been pulled forward from my own experience in college. I have a college sophomore at a top school and she started her sophomore summer search last July and just got an offer for this summer, but had already begun the junior summer (2025) internship search — a year and a half away. There was an overlap period of several weeks where she was doing parallel internship searches for 2024 AND 2025. There is so much pressure to do well academically, get all the right internships and job experiences and granularly plan out one’s life for the next 10 years. And, then post the whole thing on Instagram, LinkedIn etc., for the world to see. This occurs against a backdrop of a sea change in the job market. We shouldn’t be surprised when they wonder, “is this all worth it?” and “why am I doing this?”. I try to convince my DD to take one day at a time and figure it all out as she goes along, as I did, but that hasn’t been especially persuasive to this generation. I worry that the opportunities for today’s kids coming out of a place like Princeton perhaps really are fewer and that is what they see and feel. 30 years ago the vast majority of the graduating class would go on to have productive and meaningful lives and maybe a much smaller subset of the class will do that now, or perversely really big opportunities for a very select few.

You can follow the schedule without putting unnecessary “pressure” on yourself. The “pressure” is so self defeating and destructive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8th student death in 3 years, am not sure they are all suicides. I do know that the two deceased freshman this year were both struggling with mental illnesses before they started college. Very tragic and sad.

Unfortunately not surprising. The pressure and stress kids are under in HS to get admission to a T10-20 school leaves many with mental illness issues before they even enter college

🙄 but this “pressure” is stupid.

Anonymous wrote:I did not grow up here. Back home you stayed at home while attending college. The culture here seems so unhealthy and cruel to me in comparison. 18 year olds are thrown miles away from their home, friends, family all kinds of support system they have into a new state where they have to make new friends, take care of themselves and be responsible for their academics as well as their living situation. Its a lot for anyone to handle. I was so lonely when I came this country all lone, no friends or family. Its very tough. 18 year olds are expected to do all this and it just seems cruel to me.

I disagree. There are plenty of things to be critical about American culture but nobody is throwing 18-year-olds anywhere. PLENTY of kids stay close to home. But the idea of moving far away from your parents geographically does fit a certain American narrative of the pursuit of independence. And some kids think they are more ready for it then it turns out they are once they give it a try.

I did not grow up here. Back home you stayed at home while attending college. The culture here seems so unhealthy and cruel to me in comparison. 18 year olds are thrown miles away from their home, friends, family all kinds of support system they have into a new state where they have to make new friends, take care of themselves and be responsible for their academics as well as their living situation. Its a lot for anyone to handle. I was so lonely when I came this country all lone, no friends or family. Its very tough. 18 year olds are expected to do all this and it just seems cruel to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grade deflation, which really isn’t an issue at Princeton - is way over simplifying it. Another student recently was struck by a train and died. His mother is the director of the creative writing program, and has written about her own suicide attempts and depression. In a separate incident some years ago, her older child was also struck by a train and died by suicide.

Twos two children dying by suicide and same method?

Seems to be the case, though I believe the more recent death that occurred last week is still under investigation.

How heartbreaking!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, it seems some students are just not ready for college and especially not ready for a competitive pressure cooker college for whatever reasons. Perhaps they push through high school to get the top grades, EC’s etc and then are just burnt out. Perhaps they think an elite college is the ultimate prize at the end of high school and once they are in they feel their work is done only to find out that they have to continue to grind and the pressure is even more intense. I don’t know. Just wondering. It’s really sad.

I think it’s more that it is very difficult to live in a highly pressured situation surrounded by so many type A students — there are very few counterbalancing influences telling you to chill or that it doesn’t matter, and the living environment is chaotic and unhealthy too. It doesn’t matter how “ready” a student is, it’s just a very stressful situation for a kid who is probably already the amped-up, conscientious type.

I see the resumes of these kids - and while ridiculously accomplished from a resume standpoint, my immediate reaction is - are you OK? And slow down - you don't need to do it all before you're 25.

This. It just seems super unhealthy that kids have to be so ridiculously accomplished to get into these schools and then they are all put together to compete with each other for grades, clubs, and whatever the next carrot is, all while being expected to look as if it's effortless. I think it was in the article about the competition for clubs once you are in an elite school that talked about how kids work insanely hard in high school to be perfect and think once they get to college maybe they can relax a bit, explore, try new things, only to discover you still are expected to be perfect, to be an expert in something just to join that club vs. being able to try it out. That must be so demoralizing to learn the ordeal of HS is just going to continue in college. I can see why a student would feel hopeless and trapped. They did *everything* they were supposed to do and are miserable but have never failed at anything so they can't be a failure by changing track, transferring to a less insane school, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, it seems some students are just not ready for college and especially not ready for a competitive pressure cooker college for whatever reasons. Perhaps they push through high school to get the top grades, EC’s etc and then are just burnt out. Perhaps they think an elite college is the ultimate prize at the end of high school and once they are in they feel their work is done only to find out that they have to continue to grind and the pressure is even more intense. I don’t know. Just wondering. It’s really sad.

I think it’s more that it is very difficult to live in a highly pressured situation surrounded by so many type A students — there are very few counterbalancing influences telling you to chill or that it doesn’t matter, and the living environment is chaotic and unhealthy too. It doesn’t matter how “ready” a student is, it’s just a very stressful situation for a kid who is probably already the amped-up, conscientious type.

I see the resumes of these kids - and while ridiculously accomplished from a resume standpoint, my immediate reaction is - are you OK? And slow down - you don't need to do it all before you're 25.

Seems like this is getting more common, especially at T20 pressure cooker type schools.

It's not worth it to me. I know tons of people who went to run of the mill state schools and became smashing successes. They actually got to enjoy their college experience along the way.

Roll Tide.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, it seems some students are just not ready for college and especially not ready for a competitive pressure cooker college for whatever reasons. Perhaps they push through high school to get the top grades, EC’s etc and then are just burnt out. Perhaps they think an elite college is the ultimate prize at the end of high school and once they are in they feel their work is done only to find out that they have to continue to grind and the pressure is even more intense. I don’t know. Just wondering. It’s really sad.

I think it’s more that it is very difficult to live in a highly pressured situation surrounded by so many type A students — there are very few counterbalancing influences telling you to chill or that it doesn’t matter, and the living environment is chaotic and unhealthy too. It doesn’t matter how “ready” a student is, it’s just a very stressful situation for a kid who is probably already the amped-up, conscientious type.

I recall a single student suicide during my four years at Princeton, and the school now has far more "creature comforts" and support systems for students than when I attended.

As far as I can tell, about 80-85% of this has to do with the profile/mental state of current students when they arrive on campus and perhaps 15-20% with the competitive environment once they are there.

I know a few college kids recently (friends, co-workers, etc) that had onset of mental health and same thing--roommate or someone first noted they weren't acting like themselves.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/search-underway-missing-virginia-tech-student-johnny-roop-rcna139479

https://people.com/missing-virginia-tech-student-tracked-to-missouri-restaurant-8599087