Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Depends on what they like about the vibe of Wisconsin…if it’s the quintessential college town and campus, IU is great. If it’s more general academic reputation, I’d go Illinois or Purdue. IU has Kelley, but it isn’t really known for strength of programs outside of that. IU had an overwhelming party/Greek vibe that did not feel approachable to my child.

No, you misread or misunderstood the assignment. OP is looking for schools that feel like Wisconsin but are an easier admit. So you've come back with Illinois whose USNWR rank is tied with Wisconsin but has an even lower acceptance rate, and Purdue which admits a slightly higher percentage of its applicants than Wisconsin but they have higher stats. Not really helpful.

As for "more general academic reputation," sure, Wisconsin and Illinois and Purdue get somewhat higher overall scores from USNWR and other rankings than Indiana (which is one reason they're harder to get into, per OP's original question). And there are probably many specific programs that reflect that, although IU has a good number of highly regarded programs as well. But if you look at USNWR's "expert opinion/peer assessment" (polling academics and administrators) - which is probably more reliable than an individual opinion -- the gap in scores isn't huge: Wisconsin gets a score of 4.1 (of 5.0), Illinois 4.0, Purdue 3.9 and Indiana 3.7 (for DMV reference, IU's 3.7 is right between UMD-CP's 3.8 and GWU's 3.6).

As for "overwhelming Greek vibe" at IU that didn't seem approachable to your kid -- was this a kid who attended IU, or just a drive-by impression? 24% of IU undergrads belong to Greek organizations (compared to published stats of 20 percent at Purdue and 23.5% at Illinois - a vast difference...). The remaining 76% of IU undergrads don't -- ie, nearly 28 thousand IU undergrads (more than the entire undergraduate populations of Georgetown, GWU and American combined) aren't a part of Greek organizations ... and they're not just sitting around wishing they were. If you or your kid is allergic to Greek institutions on campus, or finds their mere presence objectionable or intimidating, that's your prerogative, but it's also kind of your issue. Like Big Ten sports, Greek life at IU is there for those who want it, and is completely unnecessary for those who don't.

Look, feel free to keep advising people that in your opinion the "T75" university they're considering has no real academic strengths (I'm guessing they already understand it's not the same as a "T50" or "T25" school ...), but I don't think that advice comes across as helpful as you presumably intend.

UIUC has plenty of programs that have a greater than 50% admit rate. Their General Studies major has a middle 50% SAT range of 1220-1410 and a GPA range of 3.46-3.88. Purdue's Exploratory Studies College admits over 75% of applicants with a middle 50% range of 1120-1360 and 3.47-3.95. College admissions is a crapshoot, but both of these schools could be options, depending on major. Both have incredibly competitive programs in CS, Engineering and Business, but they have lots of other options for students who want other majors. I think having strong STEM programs at a school can influence the "vibe" on campus and definitely seems to elevate the school's overall rankings if you are interested in that.

Anonymous wrote:

Depends on what they like about the vibe of Wisconsin…if it’s the quintessential college town and campus, IU is great. If it’s more general academic reputation, I’d go Illinois or Purdue. IU has Kelley, but it isn’t really known for strength of programs outside of that. IU had an overwhelming party/Greek vibe that did not feel approachable to my child.

No, you misread or misunderstood the assignment. OP is looking for schools that feel like Wisconsin but are an easier admit. So you've come back with Illinois whose USNWR rank is tied with Wisconsin but has an even lower acceptance rate, and Purdue which admits a slightly higher percentage of its applicants than Wisconsin but they have higher stats. Not really helpful.

As for "more general academic reputation," sure, Wisconsin and Illinois and Purdue get somewhat higher overall scores from USNWR and other rankings than Indiana (which is one reason they're harder to get into, per OP's original question). And there are probably many specific programs that reflect that, although IU has a good number of highly regarded programs as well. But if you look at USNWR's "expert opinion/peer assessment" (polling academics and administrators) - which is probably more reliable than an individual opinion -- the gap in scores isn't huge: Wisconsin gets a score of 4.1 (of 5.0), Illinois 4.0, Purdue 3.9 and Indiana 3.7 (for DMV reference, IU's 3.7 is right between UMD-CP's 3.8 and GWU's 3.6).

As for "overwhelming Greek vibe" at IU that didn't seem approachable to your kid -- was this a kid who attended IU, or just a drive-by impression? 24% of IU undergrads belong to Greek organizations (compared to published stats of 20 percent at Purdue and 23.5% at Illinois - a vast difference...). The remaining 76% of IU undergrads don't -- ie, nearly 28 thousand IU undergrads (more than the entire undergraduate populations of Georgetown, GWU and American combined) aren't a part of Greek organizations ... and they're not just sitting around wishing they were. If you or your kid is allergic to Greek institutions on campus, or finds their mere presence objectionable or intimidating, that's your prerogative, but it's also kind of your issue. Like Big Ten sports, Greek life at IU is there for those who want it, and is completely unnecessary for those who don't.

Look, feel free to keep advising people that in your opinion the "T75" university they're considering has no real academic strengths (I'm guessing they already understand it's not the same as a "T50" or "T25" school ...), but I don't think that advice comes across as helpful as you presumably intend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ohio State. Similar people. Similar city. Lots of school spirit. Football-centric.

Not even close.

Why not??

Taking them in your order:

Madison's population is much more friendly and progressive than that of Columbus, which isn't as far from Appalachia as you might think and gets more than its fair share of JD Vances.

Madison has a lovely location between two lakes. Columbus...doesn't. The Wisconsin campus also flows directly into the most fun and interesting part of Madison whereas OSU inhabits its own student ghetto north of Columbus proper (to the extent there is such a thing in such a sprawling town).

Wisconsin's spirit is Wisconsin-focused. Its rivalries with Michigan and Minnesota are spirited but friendly. OSU has an inferiority complex about not being Michigan. They riot and burn cars after every Michigan football game, win or lose.

Buckeye football is all. anybody. talks. about. for most of the summer and winter and all of the fall in Columbus. It's truly obsessive. Wisconsin isn't close to that level about its football team. Nowhere else other than Bama is, really.

Columbus is progressive. It was always super gay-friendly, way before other cities. It had the second biggest gay pride parade after SF for something like 30 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ohio State. Similar people. Similar city. Lots of school spirit. Football-centric.

Not even close.

Why not??

Taking them in your order:

Madison's population is much more friendly and progressive than that of Columbus, which isn't as far from Appalachia as you might think and gets more than its fair share of JD Vances.

Madison has a lovely location between two lakes. Columbus...doesn't. The Wisconsin campus also flows directly into the most fun and interesting part of Madison whereas OSU inhabits its own student ghetto north of Columbus proper (to the extent there is such a thing in such a sprawling town).

Wisconsin's spirit is Wisconsin-focused. Its rivalries with Michigan and Minnesota are spirited but friendly. OSU has an inferiority complex about not being Michigan. They riot and burn cars after every Michigan football game, win or lose.

Buckeye football is all. anybody. talks. about. for most of the summer and winter and all of the fall in Columbus. It's truly obsessive. Wisconsin isn't close to that level about its football team. Nowhere else other than Bama is, really.

Anonymous wrote:

Depends on what they like about the vibe of Wisconsin…if it’s the quintessential college town and campus, IU is great. If it’s more general academic reputation, I’d go Illinois or Purdue. IU has Kelley, but it isn’t really known for strength of programs outside of that. IU had an overwhelming party/Greek vibe that did not feel approachable to my child.

No, you misread or misunderstood the assignment. OP is looking for schools that feel like Wisconsin but are an easier admit. So you've come back with Illinois whose USNWR rank is tied with Wisconsin but has an even lower acceptance rate, and Purdue which admits a slightly higher percentage of its applicants than Wisconsin but they have higher stats. Not really helpful.

As for "more general academic reputation," sure, Wisconsin and Illinois and Purdue get somewhat higher overall scores from USNWR and other rankings than Indiana (which is one reason they're harder to get into, per OP's original question). And there are probably many specific programs that reflect that, although IU has a good number of highly regarded programs as well. But if you look at USNWR's "expert opinion/peer assessment" (polling academics and administrators) - which is probably more reliable than an individual opinion -- the gap in scores isn't huge: Wisconsin gets a score of 4.1 (of 5.0), Illinois 4.0, Purdue 3.9 and Indiana 3.7 (for DMV reference, IU's 3.7 is right between UMD-CP's 3.8 and GWU's 3.6).

As for "overwhelming Greek vibe" at IU that didn't seem approachable to your kid -- was this a kid who attended IU, or just a drive-by impression? 24% of IU undergrads belong to Greek organizations (compared to published stats of 20 percent at Purdue and 23.5% at Illinois - a vast difference...). The remaining 76% of IU undergrads don't -- ie, nearly 28 thousand IU undergrads (more than the entire undergraduate populations of Georgetown, GWU and American combined) aren't a part of Greek organizations ... and they're not just sitting around wishing they were. If you or your kid is allergic to Greek institutions on campus, or finds their mere presence objectionable or intimidating, that's your prerogative, but it's also kind of your issue. Like Big Ten sports, Greek life at IU is there for those who want it, and is completely unnecessary for those who don't.

Look, feel free to keep advising people that in your opinion the "T75" university they're considering has no real academic strengths (I'm guessing they already understand it's not the same as a "T50" or "T25" school ...), but I don't think that advice comes across as helpful as you presumably intend.

Depends on what they like about the vibe of Wisconsin…if it’s the quintessential college town and campus, IU is great. If it’s more general academic reputation, I’d go Illinois or Purdue. IU has Kelley, but it isn’t really known for strength of programs outside of that. IU had an overwhelming party/Greek vibe that did not feel approachable to my child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ohio State. Similar people. Similar city. Lots of school spirit. Football-centric.

Not even close.

Why not??

Taking them in your order:

Madison's population is much more friendly and progressive than that of Columbus, which isn't as far from Appalachia as you might think and gets more than its fair share of JD Vances.

Madison has a lovely location between two lakes. Columbus...doesn't. The Wisconsin campus also flows directly into the most fun and interesting part of Madison whereas OSU inhabits its own student ghetto north of Columbus proper (to the extent there is such a thing in such a sprawling town).

Of course DC is just as close to Appalachia, so that doesn’t mean all that much. Wisconsin's spirit is Wisconsin-focused. Its rivalries with Michigan and Minnesota are spirited but friendly. OSU has an inferiority complex about not being Michigan. They riot and burn cars after every Michigan football game, win or lose.

Buckeye football is all. anybody. talks. about. for most of the summer and winter and all of the fall in Columbus. It's truly obsessive. Wisconsin isn't close to that level about its football team. Nowhere else other than Bama is, really.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ohio State. Similar people. Similar city. Lots of school spirit. Football-centric.

Not even close.

Why not??

Anonymous wrote:

. How's nightlife at IU? Did she apply to UF or UGA? Was she upset at Madison?

PP here. Lots of nightlife at IU - certainly as much as I think anyone would want (that’s seems almost inevitable in a town with 45 thousand students). Lots of inexpensive restaurants in Bloomington, plus clubs and bars (drinking age doesn’t seem to be an insurmountable barrier), plus parties on and off campus, plus fraternities and sororities (she wasn’t interested in joining - actually, was a little concerned when applying that IU might be too Greek-centric until some recent alums assured her that’s not the case - but periodically attends their parties with friends), plus a lively schedule of affordable performing arts at the IU acting and music schools. Actually based on her reports and our visits, my impression is a large college town like Bloomington seems to cater to students’ preferences and budgets more than you’d find if you plopped a large university down in a major city (or rich suburb like Boulder) where the entertainment ‘base’ serves more than just students. She and friends have also gotten up to Indianapolis (50-60 minute drive?) for a number of concerts.

She didn’t look at UF or UGA, so no basis for comparison there

She wasn’t upset at Madison (or not more than 24 hours anyway). It was the one school she didn’t get into (so in this environment she knew she was fortunate getting into the colleges she did), and she seemed to have done a good job of absorbing all we said about these strong universities being largely interchangeable, the education and experience being largely dictated by what she decides to make of it once she’s there, and ‘the perfect fit’ being an kind of illusory concept (we loved our not-first-choice colleges, while aunts and uncles had meh experiences when they attended their ‘dream school’). She has a glass half full temperament - we’re really lucky.

. How's nightlife at IU? Did she apply to UF or UGA? Was she upset at Madison?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ohio State. Similar people. Similar city. Lots of school spirit. Football-centric.

Not even close.

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Anonymous wrote:Setting aside Michigan, Indiana would be closest to the vibe of Wisconsin, followed by Minnesota and Iowa, and then perhaps Michigan State.

Illinois and Purdue are more nerdy and tech-oriented.

Northwestern is a quasi-Ivy.

Nebraska doesn’t pull as much from the East Coast or even the suburbs of the big Midwestern cities.

Penn State and Ohio State are enormous football factories.

Rutgers and Maryland are East Coast and in gritty areas that don’t come close to being nice college towns.

Nebraska is getting lots of students from the Chicago & Minneapolis areas. Also some from Missouri & Michigan. The generous out of state merit scholarships are making it very affordable.

I can’t imagine almost anybody from Michigan going to Nebraska. It makes sense if you’re from MN or IL, since the drop off from the public flagship is pretty large. I supposed if you can’t get into MSU, it’s plausible.

You’ve apparently never visited U of Nebraska. It’s half the size of MSU, & feels even smaller because some programs are on a separate campus a few miles away.

I’m from Michigan, & kid did get in MSU, but wanted something different & less sprawling. Kid knew quite a few other Michiganders at Nebraska, had a great time, & now has wonderful job in Chicago.

Nebraska currently is easily the weakest school in the B1G. I’m sure there are a few students from Michigan, but it hardly makes any sense to attend there if you have offers from Michigan or Michigan State. Outliers exist in most situations

The narrowness of your view of possible criteria is stunning. Some people might grow up right next to an Arby’s, & every day everybody they know eats at Arby’s. But some day one of them might wake up & think, “Arby’s is fine, but I think today I will try something crazy like eating at KFC.” Is that sort of thinking beyond your comprehension?

We are not talking about public universities that are equal in quality. Your comparison example is not valid and way too simplistic. I can understand liking Arby’s, but I’m not traveling 800 miles to get KFC just because it’s different, especially since all fast food sucks. Of course there are some Michigan based students at Nebraska, just like any other university in the country. A PP said that Nebraska is getting a lot of kids from Michigan. I said it was highly unlikely and also stated that there are always outliers. That’s what my comment was based on and your response does nothing to disprove it.

Typical Sparty. Doesn’t even understand what an analogy is.

Oh, I know what an analogy is. I was just pointing out to you, in layman’s terms, that yours was weak. Get it now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Setting aside Michigan, Indiana would be closest to the vibe of Wisconsin, followed by Minnesota and Iowa, and then perhaps Michigan State.

Illinois and Purdue are more nerdy and tech-oriented.

Northwestern is a quasi-Ivy.

Nebraska doesn’t pull as much from the East Coast or even the suburbs of the big Midwestern cities.

Penn State and Ohio State are enormous football factories.

Rutgers and Maryland are East Coast and in gritty areas that don’t come close to being nice college towns.

Nebraska is getting lots of students from the Chicago & Minneapolis areas. Also some from Missouri & Michigan. The generous out of state merit scholarships are making it very affordable.

I can’t imagine almost anybody from Michigan going to Nebraska. It makes sense if you’re from MN or IL, since the drop off from the public flagship is pretty large. I supposed if you can’t get into MSU, it’s plausible.

You’ve apparently never visited U of Nebraska. It’s half the size of MSU, & feels even smaller because some programs are on a separate campus a few miles away.

I’m from Michigan, & kid did get in MSU, but wanted something different & less sprawling. Kid knew quite a few other Michiganders at Nebraska, had a great time, & now has wonderful job in Chicago.

Nebraska currently is easily the weakest school in the B1G. I’m sure there are a few students from Michigan, but it hardly makes any sense to attend there if you have offers from Michigan or Michigan State. Outliers exist in most situations

The narrowness of your view of possible criteria is stunning. Some people might grow up right next to an Arby’s, & every day everybody they know eats at Arby’s. But some day one of them might wake up & think, “Arby’s is fine, but I think today I will try something crazy like eating at KFC.” Is that sort of thinking beyond your comprehension?

We are not talking about public universities that are equal in quality. Your comparison example is not valid and way too simplistic. I can understand liking Arby’s, but I’m not traveling 800 miles to get KFC just because it’s different, especially since all fast food sucks. Of course there are some Michigan based students at Nebraska, just like any other university in the country. A PP said that Nebraska is getting a lot of kids from Michigan. I said it was highly unlikely and also stated that there are always outliers. That’s what my comment was based on and your response does nothing to disprove it.

Typical Sparty. Doesn’t even understand what an analogy is.