Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days

This is nonsense. A child could be in the gym for hours a day and still not make a local HS basketball team if he wasn't born with natural athletic ability.

The kids who end up playing competitive high school basketball are very frequently not kids that someone would have looked at when they were 10 and said “This kid is a monster athlete”. By the time they are in high school, they are super athletic, but what gets them there is often work, not genetic gifts. I can assure you that when my kid was the worst player on a 3rd grade rec team that never won a game, nobody would have guessed that he’d be dunking in games as a HS freshman.

And yes, many kids ARE in the gym for hours a day, and many of them claim to be training. Usually, this means that they are playing lazy, sloppy pickup games with their friends or missing 9 out of 10 threes and then celebrating like Steph Curry when they happen to make one. That’s not training. Training is a painful and boring mix of grueling endurance work and highly technical skill practice. No kid — without help from a coach — knows how to train, and most don’t have the discipline to do it.

At what age did your kid transition from bad rec player to good, then great? I have a kid that works really hard but it's still not quite clicking. He's highly skilled but makes so many silly mistakes and drives his coaches crazy. Age 12.

In terms of interest and skill, DS started turning the corner in 5th grade when a dad on his rec team who happened to be a basketball coach invited DS to workouts that the dad was doing with his own kids. That was the first time that DS did hard, two hour basketball workouts, and he found that he loved them. He got a trainer in 6th grade and his skills built from there.

He was nervous and inconsistent in games (only playing up to his potential occasionally) until the summer after 8th grade he started doing regular small group workouts with kids who were older, bigger, and better. When he was a rising freshman playing 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 with 6’8” juniors and seniors, he got used to being aggressive and just doing his best. After that experience, his AAU games with kids his own age or even HS varsity games were much less intimidating.

One big thing for my kid was having effort stuff he could fall back on if shots weren’t falling or he made mistakes. Things like poking the ball away or deflecting passes on defense or following shooters and putting back missed layups. Knowing he could get 6-8 points a game just doing effort stuff made him much calmer. Also, and this sounds silly, but — not hanging his head or looking angry or embarrassed after a mistake. Coaches worked on that with him b/c doing those things invites the other team to play against you differently/more aggressively. When you make a mistake and immediately get back on defense, you don’t help the other team gain momentum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days

This is nonsense. A child could be in the gym for hours a day and still not make a local HS basketball team if he wasn't born with natural athletic ability.

The kids who end up playing competitive high school basketball are very frequently not kids that someone would have looked at when they were 10 and said “This kid is a monster athlete”. By the time they are in high school, they are super athletic, but what gets them there is often work, not genetic gifts. I can assure you that when my kid was the worst player on a 3rd grade rec team that never won a game, nobody would have guessed that he’d be dunking in games as a HS freshman.

And yes, many kids ARE in the gym for hours a day, and many of them claim to be training. Usually, this means that they are playing lazy, sloppy pickup games with their friends or missing 9 out of 10 threes and then celebrating like Steph Curry when they happen to make one. That’s not training. Training is a painful and boring mix of grueling endurance work and highly technical skill practice. No kid — without help from a coach — knows how to train, and most don’t have the discipline to do it.

At what age did your kid transition from bad rec player to good, then great? I have a kid that works really hard but it's still not quite clicking. He's highly skilled but makes so many silly mistakes and drives his coaches crazy. Age 12.

Highly skilled and driving your coach crazy are not mutually exclusive 😉

Is your son a bad rec player? That doesn't match with "highly skilled". Is highly skilled but could be much better and that's what drives your coach crazy?

He's on the highest-ranked team in the MSA for his sport. He's an excellent practice player but only a so-so game player (think turnovers and other mistakes that drive coaches crazy, but also moments of greatness).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days

This is nonsense. A child could be in the gym for hours a day and still not make a local HS basketball team if he wasn't born with natural athletic ability.

The kids who end up playing competitive high school basketball are very frequently not kids that someone would have looked at when they were 10 and said “This kid is a monster athlete”. By the time they are in high school, they are super athletic, but what gets them there is often work, not genetic gifts. I can assure you that when my kid was the worst player on a 3rd grade rec team that never won a game, nobody would have guessed that he’d be dunking in games as a HS freshman.

And yes, many kids ARE in the gym for hours a day, and many of them claim to be training. Usually, this means that they are playing lazy, sloppy pickup games with their friends or missing 9 out of 10 threes and then celebrating like Steph Curry when they happen to make one. That’s not training. Training is a painful and boring mix of grueling endurance work and highly technical skill practice. No kid — without help from a coach — knows how to train, and most don’t have the discipline to do it.

At what age did your kid transition from bad rec player to good, then great? I have a kid that works really hard but it's still not quite clicking. He's highly skilled but makes so many silly mistakes and drives his coaches crazy. Age 12.

Highly skilled and driving your coach crazy are not mutually exclusive 😉

Is your son a bad rec player? That doesn't match with "highly skilled". Is highly skilled but could be much better and that's what drives your coach crazy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days

This is nonsense. A child could be in the gym for hours a day and still not make a local HS basketball team if he wasn't born with natural athletic ability.

The kids who end up playing competitive high school basketball are very frequently not kids that someone would have looked at when they were 10 and said “This kid is a monster athlete”. By the time they are in high school, they are super athletic, but what gets them there is often work, not genetic gifts. I can assure you that when my kid was the worst player on a 3rd grade rec team that never won a game, nobody would have guessed that he’d be dunking in games as a HS freshman.

And yes, many kids ARE in the gym for hours a day, and many of them claim to be training. Usually, this means that they are playing lazy, sloppy pickup games with their friends or missing 9 out of 10 threes and then celebrating like Steph Curry when they happen to make one. That’s not training. Training is a painful and boring mix of grueling endurance work and highly technical skill practice. No kid — without help from a coach — knows how to train, and most don’t have the discipline to do it.

At what age did your kid transition from bad rec player to good, then great? I have a kid that works really hard but it's still not quite clicking. He's highly skilled but makes so many silly mistakes and drives his coaches crazy. Age 12.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days

This is nonsense. A child could be in the gym for hours a day and still not make a local HS basketball team if he wasn't born with natural athletic ability.

It's not nonsense. "Talent" in basketball and other sports comes from hours and hours of consistent playing and proper training/coaching (especially these days). I know many people try to simplify sports to natural athleticism but it's so much more than that.

The original post spoke to "talent" and not athleticism and what's needed to exceed "before college". Unless you count being 7 ft tall, nobody is born with basketball (or any other sport with the exception of maybe running events in track) "talent". I've seen great athletes of all ages that can't make a free throw or dribble more than 3 times with their off hand. Talent is developed and anyone who has it didn't get it by happenstance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days

This is nonsense. A child could be in the gym for hours a day and still not make a local HS basketball team if he wasn't born with natural athletic ability.

The kids who end up playing competitive high school basketball are very frequently not kids that someone would have looked at when they were 10 and said “This kid is a monster athlete”. By the time they are in high school, they are super athletic, but what gets them there is often work, not genetic gifts. I can assure you that when my kid was the worst player on a 3rd grade rec team that never won a game, nobody would have guessed that he’d be dunking in games as a HS freshman.

And yes, many kids ARE in the gym for hours a day, and many of them claim to be training. Usually, this means that they are playing lazy, sloppy pickup games with their friends or missing 9 out of 10 threes and then celebrating like Steph Curry when they happen to make one. That’s not training. Training is a painful and boring mix of grueling endurance work and highly technical skill practice. No kid — without help from a coach — knows how to train, and most don’t have the discipline to do it.

Anonymous wrote:What's that chanting coming from the student section?

(Rudy, Rudy, RUDY!)

Oh most people would take JJ Watt at 50% over Rudy at 100%.

OP, these comments are not related to the sport but to life in general.

I find those that are the hardest working are generally the most successful in their personal life, educational life and their professional life.

Talent only takes you so far in life.

Also failure=growth and grit. I think it takes a lot of grit and growth to traverse life.

Best wishes to you and your daughter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days

This is nonsense. A child could be in the gym for hours a day and still not make a local HS basketball team if he wasn't born with natural athletic ability.

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

You need both to really succeed in sports.

What's that chanting coming from the student section?

(Rudy, Rudy, RUDY!)

Anonymous wrote:I would encourage your kid to try other sports and activities, so they can find what they like and maybe discover a talent. Not everyone's talents are standard or sports related. It's a waste to have them work so hard for essentially nothing.

This. How old is she?

Anonymous wrote:According to my son’s trainer, who played in two NCAA tournaments and one final 4, played and coached internationally for a dozen years, and coached a VA state championship HS team, talent isn’t really required to succeed in basketball before college.

I think when a lot of people see “talent”, what they’re not seeing is thousands of hours of gym time - a lot of which is really, really painful or mind numbingly boring or both.

When my kid was young, he had no talent. After many years of year round basketball, individual workouts at least once a week and 2 hours in the gym every day that there was no practice, suddenly everyone was amazed at his natural talent.

This x100. Especially these days