Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 07:44     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m curious as to what having tons of fun together but not being comparable means. I’m not being stupid, I just need to see it spelled out to understand.


I'm not sure why so many ppl are being obtuse. Do you not understand that parents can have fun engaging with their child for an event or activity and having "fun" as a family unit for the sake of their kid? This literally happens all the time - even with divorced parents. You enjoy seeing your kid's joy and you may like the activity - e.g. ski vacation, beach vacation, going to the movies, going to dinner. I like doing all of that and can "have fun" with the other parent.

And having to explain on this particular board is obnoxious given the amount of posts we see about unhappily married couples staying for their kid's sake. Now everyone wants to move the goal post and say "hey you're never allowed to divorce because even your 30 yr old child will be impacted". GTFOH.

I totally understand when someone chooses to stay if there is no outright abuse / drugs, etc. but I also totally get that just because those things don't exist doesn't mean I have to be unhappy for literally my whole life because I should be grateful that someone is willing to be my kind roomie. You all are really losing the plot in this thread. OP is not wrong to not want to be married to someone that she doesn't have any romantic feelings for and is not compatible - sexually, emotionally, intellectually, etc. Being a martyr is what you all want everyone to be and it's ludicrous.


I totally agree and would add that there seem to be a lot of people in this thread who don't like sex very much. Being married in your 50s "mostly about being activity partners and friends?" Ugh, I'm not in my 50s yet but I hope it's about a little more than that. And it's so annoying the way so many people in this forum seem to almost revel in the idea that marriage is about "work." If you're truly compatible with your spouse and happy with him/her then of course there will be ups and downs but there shouldn't be that much work. And if I do have to spend the rest of my life working on something, well, that doesn't sound like much of a life.


Check back when you’re in your 50s (or more pertinently, when your DH is) about whether sex is the central piece of your relationship. I’m not saying you won’t still have it (although among our couple friends we are close to, a LOT no longer do, or do very infrequently) but men age a lot by their mid fifties. Much faster than women.


Really? Im 58 and all my post- menopausal friends claim that they aren't that interested in sex anymore but their DHs very much are.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 07:04     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op again. These comments are helpful. To those who say an activity partner is enough, it’s not for me. My spouse would not take care of me when I’m ill, be patient with me if I were disabled, etc. He barely tolerates me, but loves our kid. I “gray rock” the situation as someone else said and ask nothing of him emotionally. He hasn’t been helpful or supportive when friends and family have been sick, he’s not interested in hearing about my day, etc. We enjoy hiking and sight seeing with our kid and we both find her entertaining, so we generally enjoy weekends….but the second she’s not there, it’s clear I’m the last person he wants to see. We both work from home and he eats lunch in his office to avoid me. Again, when our kid is around, we are both pretty happy. She’s seen us fight, but only a few times/year. For the most part, she experiences us as fun and engaged. But when she’s not there, my partner is dismissive and doesn’t talk to me. He’s admitted that he doesn’t love me. Our marriage wasn’t arranged, but we were both in our mid/late 30s, got along well-ish and ignored lots of problems because we felt pressure to marry and have a kid. Not ideal, but it’s what I did during an insecure period of my life.


OP, the bolded is not sustainable for the next, what, 11 years? It's also not low conflict, as another PP said. Moreover, you're both putting an ENORMOUS amount of pressure on your kid to sustain your marriage. Even if that hasn't been said out loud, that's the dynamic. Best case, she'll want to spend more time with peers as she gets older; worst case, you both rely on her too much, to the point where her emotional development is impaired. (BTDT)

Please consider, if nothing else, individual therapy for you. Divorce is going to be tough regardless of when you do it. One benefit of doing it sooner rather than later is that you'll be honest about the situation. You two might be able to sustain amicability if you divorce in 11+ years; you might not. And then what?


+1 this is very different from how you initially explained the situation which is why so many said the "companionable/not "in love"" stage is normal. But avoiding you, barely tolerating you, etc sounds much more toxic. I would pursue counseling individually to start with
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 06:51     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:Op again. These comments are helpful. To those who say an activity partner is enough, it’s not for me. My spouse would not take care of me when I’m ill, be patient with me if I were disabled, etc. He barely tolerates me, but loves our kid. I “gray rock” the situation as someone else said and ask nothing of him emotionally. He hasn’t been helpful or supportive when friends and family have been sick, he’s not interested in hearing about my day, etc. We enjoy hiking and sight seeing with our kid and we both find her entertaining, so we generally enjoy weekends….but the second she’s not there, it’s clear I’m the last person he wants to see. We both work from home and he eats lunch in his office to avoid me. Again, when our kid is around, we are both pretty happy. She’s seen us fight, but only a few times/year. For the most part, she experiences us as fun and engaged. But when she’s not there, my partner is dismissive and doesn’t talk to me. He’s admitted that he doesn’t love me. Our marriage wasn’t arranged, but we were both in our mid/late 30s, got along well-ish and ignored lots of problems because we felt pressure to marry and have a kid. Not ideal, but it’s what I did during an insecure period of my life.


OP, the bolded is not sustainable for the next, what, 11 years? It's also not low conflict, as another PP said. Moreover, you're both putting an ENORMOUS amount of pressure on your kid to sustain your marriage. Even if that hasn't been said out loud, that's the dynamic. Best case, she'll want to spend more time with peers as she gets older; worst case, you both rely on her too much, to the point where her emotional development is impaired. (BTDT)

Please consider, if nothing else, individual therapy for you. Divorce is going to be tough regardless of when you do it. One benefit of doing it sooner rather than later is that you'll be honest about the situation. You two might be able to sustain amicability if you divorce in 11+ years; you might not. And then what?
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 05:51     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:Op again. These comments are helpful. To those who say an activity partner is enough, it’s not for me. My spouse would not take care of me when I’m ill, be patient with me if I were disabled, etc. He barely tolerates me, but loves our kid. I “gray rock” the situation as someone else said and ask nothing of him emotionally. He hasn’t been helpful or supportive when friends and family have been sick, he’s not interested in hearing about my day, etc. We enjoy hiking and sight seeing with our kid and we both find her entertaining, so we generally enjoy weekends….but the second she’s not there, it’s clear I’m the last person he wants to see. We both work from home and he eats lunch in his office to avoid me. Again, when our kid is around, we are both pretty happy. She’s seen us fight, but only a few times/year. For the most part, she experiences us as fun and engaged. But when she’s not there, my partner is dismissive and doesn’t talk to me. He’s admitted that he doesn’t love me. Our marriage wasn’t arranged, but we were both in our mid/late 30s, got along well-ish and ignored lots of problems because we felt pressure to marry and have a kid. Not ideal, but it’s what I did during an insecure period of my life.


It still might be better financially to just live in two residences and not actually divorce.
You could have one “home” for when kid comes home for holidays, etc. you could at least start this way during college years. And divorce when one of you finally meets someone else. Just food for thought.

I might try to give marriage counseling one shot — although is sounds like he would not engage there.

Personally, I doubt I could stick it out with someone for 11 more years that barely tolerated my existence. This would not feel “low conflict” to me.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 01:38     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. These are helpful perspectives. In my case, I don't think our marriage will improve when the kid is older because the kid is the thing that brings us joy as a couple. We do really like spending time together as a family, but don't spend much time together outside of the kid. Once she's out of the house, I cannot imagine that we will want to stay together. We want to live in totally different climates, we want to do totally different things in retirement, etc. We don't have a lot of conflict right now, but once our kid has launched, there really won't be anything binding us to one another. For example, he wants to move to a colder environment and I can't imagine moving because of him and he can't imagine staying here because of me. We have really different desires for the next phase of our lives, and compromising for one another feels weird when there's no real connection between us.

I don't think we would ever put our kid in the middle, make her feel badly, talk trash about one another, fight about supporting her, etc. When it comes to how we treat our kid, we are really aligned. I think we'd be fine, for example, visiting her at college together and we'd work to make sure that she has equal time with each of us over summers, vacations, etc. (e.g. even if my partner moves, I think he'd come to the DMV for her school vacations so that she could see both of us and her friends, and I would support her going to his location when that makes sense too).


How about a 2nd home instead of a divorce? I fully expected to divorce once youngest left for college. As soon as youngest DC left, I started traveling with friends/my sister/our adult kids. DH hates travel now and is happy to stay home with the dog. I work remotely so spent couple weeks here/there visiting relatives. DH and I have very little in common now except for the kids. But we do get along better with this anrrangement and I’m much happier. Adult DCs live in the area and youngest comes home for college breaks - but we don’t see them very often now that they are grown. I’d HATE to miss out on 1/2 of that time w/them and also would hate to have them have to deal with negotiating time spent w/us if we divorced. So now I’m thinking of getting a 2nd home somewhere warm/near my family where I can spend longer periods of time. MUCH cheaper than a divorce! That way DH and I can appreciate the time we spend together more and not burden our kids with the holiday/visiting time. AND we can take care of each other if/when one of us gets ill. Had an uncle who went thru gray divorce and then got cancer 7 years later. My cousin was pregant w/2nd kid working F/T and it was just SO awful for her having to bear that burden knowing she will have to do that again when her Mom gets to that point. OP your spouse wants to retire in cold weather and you like warm - get a place in both and spend as little or as much time as you want in each.


This assumes spouse will care for you when ill. If that's already unlikely wouldn't it be more so in separate residences?
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 01:37     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:Op again. These comments are helpful. To those who say an activity partner is enough, it’s not for me. My spouse would not take care of me when I’m ill, be patient with me if I were disabled, etc. He barely tolerates me, but loves our kid. I “gray rock” the situation as someone else said and ask nothing of him emotionally. He hasn’t been helpful or supportive when friends and family have been sick, he’s not interested in hearing about my day, etc. We enjoy hiking and sight seeing with our kid and we both find her entertaining, so we generally enjoy weekends….but the second she’s not there, it’s clear I’m the last person he wants to see. We both work from home and he eats lunch in his office to avoid me. Again, when our kid is around, we are both pretty happy. She’s seen us fight, but only a few times/year. For the most part, she experiences us as fun and engaged. But when she’s not there, my partner is dismissive and doesn’t talk to me. He’s admitted that he doesn’t love me. Our marriage wasn’t arranged, but we were both in our mid/late 30s, got along well-ish and ignored lots of problems because we felt pressure to marry and have a kid. Not ideal, but it’s what I did during an insecure period of my life.


Divorce if you think it's inevitable.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 01:36     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can’t imagine divorcing for this reason if I had kids, no matter what age. I’d work on my marriage instead. Companionship with someone you like is a pretty great thing as you enter the second half of your life.


This.
100%
You are lucky to be living with a spouse who you get along with and have fun with.


Yes but the key there is you *like* them.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2023 01:35     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Op again. These comments are helpful. To those who say an activity partner is enough, it’s not for me. My spouse would not take care of me when I’m ill, be patient with me if I were disabled, etc. He barely tolerates me, but loves our kid. I “gray rock” the situation as someone else said and ask nothing of him emotionally. He hasn’t been helpful or supportive when friends and family have been sick, he’s not interested in hearing about my day, etc. We enjoy hiking and sight seeing with our kid and we both find her entertaining, so we generally enjoy weekends….but the second she’s not there, it’s clear I’m the last person he wants to see. We both work from home and he eats lunch in his office to avoid me. Again, when our kid is around, we are both pretty happy. She’s seen us fight, but only a few times/year. For the most part, she experiences us as fun and engaged. But when she’s not there, my partner is dismissive and doesn’t talk to me. He’s admitted that he doesn’t love me. Our marriage wasn’t arranged, but we were both in our mid/late 30s, got along well-ish and ignored lots of problems because we felt pressure to marry and have a kid. Not ideal, but it’s what I did during an insecure period of my life.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2023 22:42     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. These are helpful perspectives. In my case, I don't think our marriage will improve when the kid is older because the kid is the thing that brings us joy as a couple. We do really like spending time together as a family, but don't spend much time together outside of the kid. Once she's out of the house, I cannot imagine that we will want to stay together. We want to live in totally different climates, we want to do totally different things in retirement, etc. We don't have a lot of conflict right now, but once our kid has launched, there really won't be anything binding us to one another. For example, he wants to move to a colder environment and I can't imagine moving because of him and he can't imagine staying here because of me. We have really different desires for the next phase of our lives, and compromising for one another feels weird when there's no real connection between us.

I don't think we would ever put our kid in the middle, make her feel badly, talk trash about one another, fight about supporting her, etc. When it comes to how we treat our kid, we are really aligned. I think we'd be fine, for example, visiting her at college together and we'd work to make sure that she has equal time with each of us over summers, vacations, etc. (e.g. even if my partner moves, I think he'd come to the DMV for her school vacations so that she could see both of us and her friends, and I would support her going to his location when that makes sense too).


From a more neutral, objective perspective, the bolded seem like really silly reasons to get a divorce. There are so many better ways to get what you need. Your desires might change. My guess is that you are just bored. That's not a reason to get a divorce now, much less live the next ten years with one foot out the door.

Your kid is 7, so I'm guessing you have at least a decade until she goes to college, and I'm guessing you have even longer before you're retired. The next 10-20 years will change things a lot.

Last point: if you do get divorced, you might end up with another partner. Your DH might, too. You have no idea how that will change the dynamics. I.e., that might change whether your DH will want to "come to the DMV for her school vacations," or whether you'd want to visit her together.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2023 18:29     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. These are helpful perspectives. In my case, I don't think our marriage will improve when the kid is older because the kid is the thing that brings us joy as a couple. We do really like spending time together as a family, but don't spend much time together outside of the kid. Once she's out of the house, I cannot imagine that we will want to stay together. We want to live in totally different climates, we want to do totally different things in retirement, etc. We don't have a lot of conflict right now, but once our kid has launched, there really won't be anything binding us to one another. For example, he wants to move to a colder environment and I can't imagine moving because of him and he can't imagine staying here because of me. We have really different desires for the next phase of our lives, and compromising for one another feels weird when there's no real connection between us.

I don't think we would ever put our kid in the middle, make her feel badly, talk trash about one another, fight about supporting her, etc. When it comes to how we treat our kid, we are really aligned. I think we'd be fine, for example, visiting her at college together and we'd work to make sure that she has equal time with each of us over summers, vacations, etc. (e.g. even if my partner moves, I think he'd come to the DMV for her school vacations so that she could see both of us and her friends, and I would support her going to his location when that makes sense too).


How about a 2nd home instead of a divorce? I fully expected to divorce once youngest left for college. As soon as youngest DC left, I started traveling with friends/my sister/our adult kids. DH hates travel now and is happy to stay home with the dog. I work remotely so spent couple weeks here/there visiting relatives. DH and I have very little in common now except for the kids. But we do get along better with this anrrangement and I’m much happier. Adult DCs live in the area and youngest comes home for college breaks - but we don’t see them very often now that they are grown. I’d HATE to miss out on 1/2 of that time w/them and also would hate to have them have to deal with negotiating time spent w/us if we divorced. So now I’m thinking of getting a 2nd home somewhere warm/near my family where I can spend longer periods of time. MUCH cheaper than a divorce! That way DH and I can appreciate the time we spend together more and not burden our kids with the holiday/visiting time. AND we can take care of each other if/when one of us gets ill. Had an uncle who went thru gray divorce and then got cancer 7 years later. My cousin was pregant w/2nd kid working F/T and it was just SO awful for her having to bear that burden knowing she will have to do that again when her Mom gets to that point. OP your spouse wants to retire in cold weather and you like warm - get a place in both and spend as little or as much time as you want in each.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2023 17:56     Subject: Re:If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you *think* everything will be fine when you split, amicable about sharing child time and expenses, etc. But your imagination does not include new partners and step-relatives and everything that entails, including competition for resources. You also have no idea how your kid will deal with all of this, what happens as she ages and you age, how to split holidays, etc. I think you sound like you live in a future fantasy world.

You should consider all the people on this thread who have suggested trying to address your current issues, instead of just accepting them as a fact set in stone. If you can connect and develop emotional intimacy again, you may both be willing to make compromises 15 years from now. You must have been in love on your wedding day, right? Sounds like there is a real foundation here to build from.


This. Divorce opens the door to a lot of complexity and a lot of compromise. There are many, many reasons you and your child might not come out of this any happier, even if your marriage does kinda stink.


A lot of unknown people that your kid will have to possibly spend holidays with, maybe different ones each year. Other kids being brought into the house, etc. Especially financially, but emotionally too, this is often true that things may not be better. The grass being greener is real. And it's not just for 18/21 years but your adult kid will feel pulled between 3-4 houses of grandparents on holidays, will feel more burdened by aging parents who are alone, etc. Families exist for a lot of reasons beyond romance.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2023 17:52     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. These are helpful perspectives. In my case, I don't think our marriage will improve when the kid is older because the kid is the thing that brings us joy as a couple. We do really like spending time together as a family, but don't spend much time together outside of the kid. Once she's out of the house, I cannot imagine that we will want to stay together. We want to live in totally different climates, we want to do totally different things in retirement, etc. We don't have a lot of conflict right now, but once our kid has launched, there really won't be anything binding us to one another. For example, he wants to move to a colder environment and I can't imagine moving because of him and he can't imagine staying here because of me. We have really different desires for the next phase of our lives, and compromising for one another feels weird when there's no real connection between us.

I don't think we would ever put our kid in the middle, make her feel badly, talk trash about one another, fight about supporting her, etc. When it comes to how we treat our kid, we are really aligned. I think we'd be fine, for example, visiting her at college together and we'd work to make sure that she has equal time with each of us over summers, vacations, etc. (e.g. even if my partner moves, I think he'd come to the DMV for her school vacations so that she could see both of us and her friends, and I would support her going to his location when that makes sense too).


Why not try regular date nights, OP, sometimes with other couples? A stable family unit is the biggest gift you can give your kid as a child and as an adult. Absent abuse, cheating, why not try to work on the marriage? With the idea that love is a verb, maybe try it? https://5lovelanguages.com/

What was your parents' marriage like? Spouse's parents? What did you like @ spouse when dating?
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2023 17:28     Subject: Re:If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:OP, you *think* everything will be fine when you split, amicable about sharing child time and expenses, etc. But your imagination does not include new partners and step-relatives and everything that entails, including competition for resources. You also have no idea how your kid will deal with all of this, what happens as she ages and you age, how to split holidays, etc. I think you sound like you live in a future fantasy world.

You should consider all the people on this thread who have suggested trying to address your current issues, instead of just accepting them as a fact set in stone. If you can connect and develop emotional intimacy again, you may both be willing to make compromises 15 years from now. You must have been in love on your wedding day, right? Sounds like there is a real foundation here to build from.


This. Divorce opens the door to a lot of complexity and a lot of compromise. There are many, many reasons you and your child might not come out of this any happier, even if your marriage does kinda stink.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2023 17:27     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter how old children are when their parents divorce.

Facts are this: Even if your DC are in college when you divorce it will never be easy. In fact, it may actually be harder - especially if you plan to have another partner/spouse at some point. Which seems to be your goal since you are in a passionless marriage and want to be "in love".

Be prepared your child (no matter how old) will have a very, very difficult time accepting you and your spouse's new partners. This will cause conflict.

You may find the love of your life who you are so much more compatible with but what will you do when your daughter tells you she hates them and wants nothing to do with them - no matter how old she gets. And she does the same with your ex's new partner.

There are people in their 70s and 80s who repartner/remarry and have adult kids who are vehemently opposed to such relationships.

Once you've had a child with someone it fundamentally changes any potential relationships you might have in the future.

Consider that before you fundamentally change the family you have.



I fundamentally disagree with this poster. Of COURSE it matters how old the kids are when you divorce.
My parents divorced when I was very young. For all my childhood I lived between homes, always packing bags and hated that life. Being a kid of divorced parents shaped my daily thoughts. I just wanted a normal life.

I can’t answer your op, I’m not in that situation but cannot let this PP go uncommented.


To be fair I think most kids adapt to it. I didn't like switching houses but adjusted and it became my new normal. And I had several friends in the same boat so I didn't see it as abnormal per de. If it affected your entire childhood and you never adapted, well, I think that is pretty unusual and not the norm from the other kids of divorce I knew.


DP.

I mean, I adapted but it definitely affected my entire childhood.

Divorce sucks for kids. OTOH, made me a much better adult, partner and parent.


Yes. I "adapted" emotionally but the logistics are what they are. Saying "kids adapt" doesn't bring back all the time spent back-and-forthing. Just because I'm not upset about it all the time doesn't mean it doesn't suck.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2023 17:26     Subject: If your parents lived amicably and then divorced while you were in college, how did you do?
Anonymous wrote:I think what you have is normal.


+ 1

When my kids were this age, I don't think I was in love with my spouse. In our 35 years of marriage and 40 years of being together, I think we have fallen in and out of love at least 3 or 4 times. And there was long stretches of being friendly and functional and the nature of love/passion also became calm and gentle affection. The difference between joy and happiness.

Now, I think we are perfect. And we love how we parent and the wonderful kids that we have.