Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

I don't think you understand ethics. It's not about repercussions, it's about integrity. Get some.

Don't lie and make your counselor lie on an ED agreement if you don't intend to abide.

Anonymous wrote:So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.
report

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is your kid regretting an ED application? If so, maybe it would be preferable to call them up and see if you can withdraw the application now, before notifications? The ED school could still give the slot to another kid, but once decisions are mailed that ship will have saile.d

Don’t need school’s permission. An ED app can be withdrawn anytime before notification of acceptance.

The high school college counselor has already sat down with the parents and the students. S/he explained the ramifications of signing the ED contract. Counselor signs it. Student signs it. Of course they are going to be irritated if you come back and say you now don't want to play by the rules.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

PP you’re responding to. My kid won’t be applying ED because we need to shop with price in mind. But I don’t fault families for a minute for pulling out of ED decisions if they can’t swing it. Colleges need to fix the process.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

Anything to justify cheating. Whatever your feelings on ED and the lack of ability to shop around, that doesn't make it ok to take advantage of better admission rates under the guise of a binding agreement when you intend to treat it is non-binding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is your kid regretting an ED application? If so, maybe it would be preferable to call them up and see if you can withdraw the application now, before notifications? The ED school could still give the slot to another kid, but once decisions are mailed that ship will have saile.d

Don’t need school’s permission. An ED app can be withdrawn anytime before notification of acceptance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know someone who was accepted ED and didn’t withdraw other applications. When the other acceptances kept coming in including one to a much better school (top 20 private) they went with it. Absolutely no repercussions.

I also know of someone who kept in all of their applications after accepting an ED2 offer (including the ED1 school that had deferred them). AT RD round, they were accepted to the ED1 deferral school - plus another T25 school.

They went back to the ED2 school to say they felt there was a stronger religious community at the ED1 school. The ED2 school allowed it. I don't know what happened with the HS relationship with the ED2 school though - I didn't ask.

This family knew better - they were fully aware that they were supposed to withdraw but they took a chance and took advantage of the system. There was nothing lacking in the community at the ED2 school - the overall percentage of her group was smaller but it isn't tiny - and the school itself is more diverse and celebrates diversity.

She was lucky that school was generous with her. I wish there was a more formal process where schools communicate and don't allow this to happen (I mean - it's the common app - so how hard can it be). This had nothing to do with finances.

I was secretly wishing someone would "out" them to the school they attended.

You want businesses to collude about not competing for certain customers. The system would be easy to create, defending it would be impossible

No - I want the colleges to mark ED applicants who have accepted offers to college board and mark their remaining applications as being no longer valid. Otherwise this is all BS.

That said - I don't think ED is a fair/equitable process. It clearly disadvantages families who need to shop for aid. So maybe change the system to only have EA - or SCEA.

life is not fair. ED will never disappear. However, I do think the CB/Common app should somehow remove applications for those who got an ED1 or ED2 acceptance. If you did not apply for FA, then your ED acceptance must be binding. And if your parents make over $250K, it should be binding no matter what (you are not getting financial aid period). People should not be able to play the game unless they play by the rules.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

You are an *sshole. The ethical people decide to withhold applying to ED if they are unsure they will want that school 100%. They don't just choose one and say 'oh well if he gets in somewhere better in April, we will just back out of ED." That is the EXACT point of ED, you are obligated to attend (barring demonstrated financial obligations--not 'I'm a donut hole family that knew we couldn't afford it, but applied anyways." People are so shitty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know someone who was accepted ED and didn’t withdraw other applications. When the other acceptances kept coming in including one to a much better school (top 20 private) they went with it. Absolutely no repercussions.

I also know of someone who kept in all of their applications after accepting an ED2 offer (including the ED1 school that had deferred them). AT RD round, they were accepted to the ED1 deferral school - plus another T25 school.

They went back to the ED2 school to say they felt there was a stronger religious community at the ED1 school. The ED2 school allowed it. I don't know what happened with the HS relationship with the ED2 school though - I didn't ask.

This family knew better - they were fully aware that they were supposed to withdraw but they took a chance and took advantage of the system. There was nothing lacking in the community at the ED2 school - the overall percentage of her group was smaller but it isn't tiny - and the school itself is more diverse and celebrates diversity.

She was lucky that school was generous with her. I wish there was a more formal process where schools communicate and don't allow this to happen (I mean - it's the common app - so how hard can it be). This had nothing to do with finances.

I was secretly wishing someone would "out" them to the school they attended.

You want businesses to collude about not competing for certain customers. The system would be easy to create, defending it would be impossible

No - I want the colleges to mark ED applicants who have accepted offers to college board and mark their remaining applications as being no longer valid. Otherwise this is all BS.

That said - I don't think ED is a fair/equitable process. It clearly disadvantages families who need to shop for aid. So maybe change the system to only have EA - or SCEA.

life is not fair. ED will never disappear. However, I do think the CB/Common app should somehow remove applications for those who got an ED1 or ED2 acceptance. If you did not apply for FA, then your ED acceptance must be binding. And if your parents make over $250K, it should be binding no matter what (you are not getting financial aid period). People should not be able to play the game unless they play by the rules.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

+1

Your ethical HS counselor simply will not release your transcript to any other schools until you demonstrate you ethically dropped your ED (financial reasons are the only real ethical reason). Otherwise they are screwing over the next 5+ years of students applying from the dishonest kid's HS.

You likely wouldn't receive your ED acceptance until 12/15. In the meantime, you of course could have applied to many, many EA schools (which you are free to do under ED) as well as UC schools. Also, if you are really paranoid, you could make sure to apply to RD schools by 12/15.

So, there would not be any factual basis for your HS not to release your transcript.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know someone who was accepted ED and didn’t withdraw other applications. When the other acceptances kept coming in including one to a much better school (top 20 private) they went with it. Absolutely no repercussions.

I also know of someone who kept in all of their applications after accepting an ED2 offer (including the ED1 school that had deferred them). AT RD round, they were accepted to the ED1 deferral school - plus another T25 school.

They went back to the ED2 school to say they felt there was a stronger religious community at the ED1 school. The ED2 school allowed it. I don't know what happened with the HS relationship with the ED2 school though - I didn't ask.

This family knew better - they were fully aware that they were supposed to withdraw but they took a chance and took advantage of the system. There was nothing lacking in the community at the ED2 school - the overall percentage of her group was smaller but it isn't tiny - and the school itself is more diverse and celebrates diversity.

She was lucky that school was generous with her. I wish there was a more formal process where schools communicate and don't allow this to happen (I mean - it's the common app - so how hard can it be). This had nothing to do with finances.

I was secretly wishing someone would "out" them to the school they attended.

You want businesses to collude about not competing for certain customers. The system would be easy to create, defending it would be impossible

No - I want the colleges to mark ED applicants who have accepted offers to college board and mark their remaining applications as being no longer valid. Otherwise this is all BS.

That said - I don't think ED is a fair/equitable process. It clearly disadvantages families who need to shop for aid. So maybe change the system to only have EA - or SCEA.