Anonymous wrote:Race is definitely a part of this metric but it is messy.

Student Loan Debt by Race or Ethnicity
On average, Black or African American student borrowers owe $25,000 more than White or Caucasian borrowers owe for bachelor's graduates. Four years after graduation, 48% of Black student borrowers and 17% of White student borrowers owe more than they initially borrowed.Aug 20, 2023

https://educationdata.org › student-l...
Student Loan Debt Statistics [2023] - Education Data Initiative

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Yes but this thread is not really relevant to your situation. You enjoyed tremendous privileges (being admitted to top 10 school with high graduation rates and having your parents pay your student fees). We are talking about colleges with very low graduation rates, high life long student debts and poor job outcomes.

I am sorry things did not work out well for you but you are in a much better situation than many students who have tons of debt and don’t even graduate. As others have noted many of these schools h accept students with extremely low GPAs and test scores who are clearly not prepared for college.

How well people do with their college degrees is up to them for sure.

Nonetheless, there are many non monetary values to obtaining college degrees such as being more likely to get and stay married, healthier and better educated children, ability to engage in civic ways in more informed ways and higher life expectancies to name but a few.

Again, the point is that my college should not be held responsible for for my low salary and that future salary is a terrible indicator of a college's value.

Also, it was Big 10, not T10. Midwest privilege, at the most.

OK but I doubt your school made the second list here by degree choices. There are no top or even second tier schools on the list that I can see. If it is a T10 school, it likely has high graduation rates and mostly accepts students who are we prepared for college. You also have no student debt and likely your school has low student debt as many of the top tier schools do due to generous scholarships and many students from wealthy families .

90k a year may not be UMC but it is likely considerably higher than many of the students who fail to graduate from third rate universities.

No one is accusing the top tier schools of predatory practices of targeting students from disadvantaged communities and who are clearly not prepared for the rigors of college. The top tier schools are the other extreme - rejecting many top stats students and creating endless stress for students who fear nothing they achieve is good enough even though they have stellar GPAs and test scores.

Big. Ten. School.

Holy moly, the reading comprehension here.

I posted before seeing your post as data slow where I am - but qualified that I also have not seen Big Ten school (our DC attended a Big 10 also and it was an excellent education. They are excelling now also in STEM field but that is due to hard work ethic.)

We are talking about colleges with extremely low graduation rates, high life long debt and poor job outcomes - much lower than your income).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Yes but this thread is not really relevant to your situation. You enjoyed tremendous privileges (being admitted to top 10 school with high graduation rates and having your parents pay your student fees). We are talking about colleges with very low graduation rates, high life long student debts and poor job outcomes.

I am sorry things did not work out well for you but you are in a much better situation than many students who have tons of debt and don’t even graduate. As others have noted many of these schools h accept students with extremely low GPAs and test scores who are clearly not prepared for college.

How well people do with their college degrees is up to them for sure.

Nonetheless, there are many non monetary values to obtaining college degrees such as being more likely to get and stay married, healthier and better educated children, ability to engage in civic ways in more informed ways and higher life expectancies to name but a few.

Again, the point is that my college should not be held responsible for for my low salary and that future salary is a terrible indicator of a college's value.

Also, it was Big 10, not T10. Midwest privilege, at the most.

OK but I doubt your school made the second list here by degree choices. There are no top or even second tier schools on the list that I can see. If it is a T10 school, it likely has high graduation rates and mostly accepts students who are we prepared for college. You also have no student debt and likely your school has low student debt as many of the top tier schools do due to generous scholarships and many students from wealthy families .

90k a year may not be UMC but it is likely considerably higher than many of the students who fail to graduate from third rate universities.

No one is accusing the top tier schools of predatory practices of targeting students from disadvantaged communities and who are clearly not prepared for the rigors of college. The top tier schools are the other extreme - rejecting many top stats students and creating endless stress for students who fear nothing they achieve is good enough even though they have stellar GPAs and test scores.

Big. Ten. School.

Holy moly, the reading comprehension here.

Anonymous wrote:This list is sloppy at best...but probably just bogus overall. I wouldn't take any of it as valid information.

According to USWNR, Georgetown University, DC is in the top 3 for 4yr graduation rate (91%) - tied with UVA and Duke (only bettered by Notre Dame and W&L).

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

However, even though this piece was clearly referring to Georgetown University in DC (including photos of GU)....if you look up Georgetown College, KY grad rate in USNWR - it is only 42%.

RPI is listed with 71% graduation rate.

Whoever put this together did a poor job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Yes but this thread is not really relevant to your situation. You enjoyed tremendous privileges (being admitted to top 10 school with high graduation rates and having your parents pay your student fees). We are talking about colleges with very low graduation rates, high life long student debts and poor job outcomes.

I am sorry things did not work out well for you but you are in a much better situation than many students who have tons of debt and don’t even graduate. As others have noted many of these schools h accept students with extremely low GPAs and test scores who are clearly not prepared for college.

How well people do with their college degrees is up to them for sure.

Nonetheless, there are many non monetary values to obtaining college degrees such as being more likely to get and stay married, healthier and better educated children, ability to engage in civic ways in more informed ways and higher life expectancies to name but a few.

Again, the point is that my college should not be held responsible for for my low salary and that future salary is a terrible indicator of a college's value.

Also, it was Big 10, not T10. Midwest privilege, at the most.

OK but I doubt your school made the second list here by degree choices. There are no top or even second tier schools on the list that I can see. If it is a T10 school, it likely has high graduation rates and mostly accepts students who are we prepared for college. You also have no student debt and likely your school has low student debt as many of the top tier schools do due to generous scholarships and many students from wealthy families .

90k a year may not be UMC but it is likely considerably higher than many of the students who fail to graduate from third rate universities.

No one is accusing the top tier schools of predatory practices of targeting students from disadvantaged communities and who are clearly not prepared for the rigors of college. The top tier schools are the other extreme - rejecting many top stats students and creating endless stress for students who fear nothing they achieve is good enough even though they have stellar GPAs and test scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Yes but this thread is not really relevant to your situation. You enjoyed tremendous privileges (being admitted to top 10 school with high graduation rates and having your parents pay your student fees). We are talking about colleges with very low graduation rates, high life long student debts and poor job outcomes.

I am sorry things did not work out well for you but you are in a much better situation than many students who have tons of debt and don’t even graduate. As others have noted many of these schools h accept students with extremely low GPAs and test scores who are clearly not prepared for college.

How well people do with their college degrees is up to them for sure.

Nonetheless, there are many non monetary values to obtaining college degrees such as being more likely to get and stay married, healthier and better educated children, ability to engage in civic ways in more informed ways and higher life expectancies to name but a few.

Again, the point is that my college should not be held responsible for for my low salary and that future salary is a terrible indicator of a college's value.

Also, it was Big 10, not T10. Midwest privilege, at the most.

OK but I doubt your school made the second list here by degree choices. There are no top or even second tier schools on the list that I can see. If it is a T10 school, it likely has high graduation rates and mostly accepts students who are we prepared for college. You also have no student debt and likely your school has low student debt as many of the top tier schools do due to generous scholarships and many students from wealthy families .

90k a year may not be UMC but it is likely considerably higher than many of the students who fail to graduate from third rate universities.

No one is accusing the top tier schools of predatory practices of targeting students from disadvantaged communities and who are clearly not prepared for the rigors of college. The top tier schools are the other extreme - rejecting many top stats students and creating endless stress for students who fear nothing they achieve is good enough even though they have stellar GPAs and test scores.

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Yes but this thread is not really relevant to your situation. You enjoyed tremendous privileges (being admitted to top 10 school with high graduation rates and having your parents pay your student fees). We are talking about colleges with very low graduation rates, high life long student debts and poor job outcomes.

I am sorry things did not work out well for you but you are in a much better situation than many students who have tons of debt and don’t even graduate. As others have noted many of these schools h accept students with extremely low GPAs and test scores who are clearly not prepared for college.

How well people do with their college degrees is up to them for sure.

Nonetheless, there are many non monetary values to obtaining college degrees such as being more likely to get and stay married, healthier and better educated children, ability to engage in civic ways in more informed ways and higher life expectancies to name but a few.

Again, the point is that my college should not be held responsible for for my low salary and that future salary is a terrible indicator of a college's value.

Also, it was Big 10, not T10. Midwest privilege, at the most.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Yes but this thread is not really relevant to your situation. You enjoyed tremendous privileges (being admitted to top 10 school with high graduation rates and having your parents pay your student fees). We are talking about colleges with very low graduation rates, high life long student debts and poor job outcomes.

I am sorry things did not work out well for you but you are in a much better situation than many students who have tons of debt and don’t even graduate. As others have noted many of these schools h accept students with extremely low GPAs and test scores who are clearly not prepared for college.

How well people do with their college degrees is up to them for sure.

Nonetheless, there are many non monetary values to obtaining college degrees such as being more likely to get and stay married, healthier and better educated children, ability to engage in civic ways in more informed ways and higher life expectancies to name but a few.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Is your age a typo? I don't think $90 K for a new college grad is "only $90K". But I do think $90K for 7-8-9 years experience in engineering is on the low side.

PS, if you graduated from college at age 20, well done!

I'm 20 years out - i.e., I graduated 20 years ago. My salary is poor for my education level and years in industry, and my university's rating absolutely should not suffer for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Worst" is such a nebulous term.

Yes but degree choices offered very plausible criteria
Very low graduation rates
Very Low income later down the road
Remaining in debt most of lives despite receiving little gains from the education

I'm 20 years out with a 3.8 GPA from a Big 10 engineering program and only make $90k, with no student loan debt (parents paid). So what? It reflects on lifestyle choices I made post-graduation, not the school.

Do you hear your privilege ? Your parents paid your school fees. You graduated from a top school zero debt.

Many of these students don’t have parents paying their tuition and don’t even graduate.

All things being equal I agree it is up to each of us to make good choices - but many are starting from behind home base - not even on the field.