Anonymous
10/10/2023 21:43
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
OP - that is encouraging thank you .
OP - to clarify / Sorry the part about increased mental health issues is not encouraging but perfectly understandable given the collective traumas our youth experienced during the pandemic. I was aware and we already are quite proactive on the mental health front.
Yes you are right that this impacts executive functioning quite a lot. We will continue to work on those skill sets.
However, I had assumed there would be more impacts on academic skill sets as well and am encouraged that is reportedly not the case .
I think the mental heath issues pre-dated the pandemic. I think a lot of the mental health issues also stem from kids living under immense pressure and having their parents manage their entire lives.
OP - maybe but research is very mixed in that regard. Some research shows that college students with helicopter parents do better and are more confident because they know their parents support them and their success.
I am sure there is a balance to that and we parents have to gradually hand over the reigns to our children as they prepare for adult life.
I also think there are way more expectations placed on students now then when I was young.
We emphasize to our DC that there are many paths to success and that admission to prestigious brand name colleges is not the goal - rather to pursue studies they find interesting in a setting where they feel safe and happy and that eventually lead towards types of employments they will enjoy.
Hm. Can you provide links or guidance as to where to find these "mixed" research on outcomes/impacts of helicopter parenting? All the studies that I am familiar with point to negative impacts.
OP:
I think that parents often face impossible expectations - i.e.: be involved but not too involved, let your kids fail some times but if they fail it is parents faults, and on and on. I believe that most parents are doing their best. I can’t find the actual article I was referencing from several years ago but here is some research promoting the benefits of strong parental involvement. I am not referring to types of involvement that are obviously destructive. Also once our children are 18, they are legal adults (except for drinking) so appropriate
parental involvement is very different.
Research has shown a consensus that family and parent involvement in schools leads to better outcomes regardless of a family's ethnic background or socioeconomic status. Parent involvement has led to higher academic outcomes both for children from low and higher socioeconomic status families.Jul 25, 2023
https://www.edweek.org › 2023/07
Does Parent Involvement Really Help Students? Here's What the Research Says
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/does-
Students whose parents stay involved in school have better attendance and behavior, get better grades, demonstrate better social skills and adapt better to school. Parental involvement also more securely sets these students up to develop a lifelong love of learning, which researchers say is key to long-term success.Dec 14, 2022
https://www.aecf.org › Blog
Parental Involvement in Your Child's Education
Parents can be a positive element in higher education when they Understand the student experience and are aware of the resources available on campus Understand and support the institution's goals for student development and learning Know when to step in to help their student and when to empower their student to take ...
https://www.stetson.edu › law › media
The Case for Parental Involvement during the College Years
https://www.stetson.edu/law/conferences/highered/archive/media/higher-ed-archives-2009/i-savage-case-for-parental-involvement.pdf
This approach is common in educated, middle class families, and linked with superior child outcomes throughout the world. For example, kids raised by authoritative parents are more likely to become independent, self-reliant, socially accepted, academically successful, and well-behaved.Apr 7, 2023
https://parentingscience.com › auth...
The authoritative parenting style: An evidence-based guide
Involved isn’t the same as helicopter parenting.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 20:44
Subject: Re:Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.
Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.
Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 20:21
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
OP - that is encouraging thank you .
OP - to clarify / Sorry the part about increased mental health issues is not encouraging but perfectly understandable given the collective traumas our youth experienced during the pandemic. I was aware and we already are quite proactive on the mental health front.
Yes you are right that this impacts executive functioning quite a lot. We will continue to work on those skill sets.
However, I had assumed there would be more impacts on academic skill sets as well and am encouraged that is reportedly not the case .
I think the mental heath issues pre-dated the pandemic. I think a lot of the mental health issues also stem from kids living under immense pressure and having their parents manage their entire lives.
OP - maybe but research is very mixed in that regard. Some research shows that college students with helicopter parents do better and are more confident because they know their parents support them and their success.
I am sure there is a balance to that and we parents have to gradually hand over the reigns to our children as they prepare for adult life.
I also think there are way more expectations placed on students now then when I was young.
We emphasize to our DC that there are many paths to success and that admission to prestigious brand name colleges is not the goal - rather to pursue studies they find interesting in a setting where they feel safe and happy and that eventually lead towards types of employments they will enjoy.
Hm. Can you provide links or guidance as to where to find these "mixed" research on outcomes/impacts of helicopter parenting? All the studies that I am familiar with point to negative impacts.
OP:
I think that parents often face impossible expectations - i.e.: be involved but not too involved, let your kids fail some times but if they fail it is parents faults, and on and on. I believe that most parents are doing their best. I can’t find the actual article I was referencing from several years ago but here is some research promoting the benefits of strong parental involvement. I am not referring to types of involvement that are obviously destructive. Also once our children are 18, they are legal adults (except for drinking) so appropriate
parental involvement is very different.
Research has shown a consensus that family and parent involvement in schools leads to better outcomes regardless of a family's ethnic background or socioeconomic status. Parent involvement has led to higher academic outcomes both for children from low and higher socioeconomic status families.Jul 25, 2023
https://www.edweek.org › 2023/07
Does Parent Involvement Really Help Students? Here's What the Research Says
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/does-
Students whose parents stay involved in school have better attendance and behavior, get better grades, demonstrate better social skills and adapt better to school. Parental involvement also more securely sets these students up to develop a lifelong love of learning, which researchers say is key to long-term success.Dec 14, 2022
https://www.aecf.org › Blog
Parental Involvement in Your Child's Education
Parents can be a positive element in higher education when they Understand the student experience and are aware of the resources available on campus Understand and support the institution's goals for student development and learning Know when to step in to help their student and when to empower their student to take ...
https://www.stetson.edu › law › media
The Case for Parental Involvement during the College Years
https://www.stetson.edu/law/conferences/highered/archive/media/higher-ed-archives-2009/i-savage-case-for-parental-involvement.pdf
This approach is common in educated, middle class families, and linked with superior child outcomes throughout the world. For example, kids raised by authoritative parents are more likely to become independent, self-reliant, socially accepted, academically successful, and well-behaved.Apr 7, 2023
https://parentingscience.com › auth...
The authoritative parenting style: An evidence-based guide
Anonymous
10/10/2023 18:58
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:College is the new high school. Kids coming in are like middle school students from a decade or two ago. Poor reading and writing skills. Want to do corrections and have trouble with deadlines. Sure COVID made it worse but was getting progressively worse before COVID. I chalk it up to the advent of everyone getting a participation trophy.
Not all of them. My son went to a Catholic high school. The only change made by his school during Covid was that finals were optional for two years (and if you took them and they lowered your grade, you were stuck with it). He is an excellent writer. If something was more than a day late, he got a zero. There were no retakes and the lowest grade you could get was a zero, not a 50%. You are describing students coming from public schools where these policies were in place.
Similar only at my sons' Catholic HS there were no optional finals for two years. Things were the same, tests still required, etc.
Our public school isn't anything like the caricature the PP is painting either. They are better prepared for college academically than ever before. I think less selective colleges are seeing a blip in skills since the pandemic though--as those undergraduates come through.
I could not agree more. I was top of my class, and I'm constantly thinking how mediocre I would be in this day and age.
Me three! I was in the top of my selective public high school and went to a selective private college. I went on to get a STEM PhD. My public school kid’s Calc BC and Physics C classes are more rigorous than I did. She is also surrounded by smarter (or higher achieving) kids than I was.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 18:46
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
The pandemic has affected college readiness in various ways.
Academically: Students have gaps due to remote learning and cheating incidents have risen sharply.
Socially: Limited social interactions have weakened teamwork skills.
Physically: A noticeable trend is students appearing out of shape, likely from long periods of inactivity during lockdowns.
To prepare for college:
Brush up on weak academic areas and always practice honesty.
Join group activities to improve social skills.
Incorporate regular exercise to boost physical health.
Students should proactively address these challenges for a smoother college experience. Universities are also adapting to offer support.
Academically: Students have gaps due to remote learning and cheating incidents have risen sharply.
Socially: Limited social interactions have weakened teamwork skills.
Physically: A noticeable trend is students appearing out of shape, likely from long periods of inactivity during lockdowns.
To prepare for college:
Brush up on weak academic areas and always practice honesty.
Join group activities to improve social skills.
Incorporate regular exercise to boost physical health.
Students should proactively address these challenges for a smoother college experience. Universities are also adapting to offer support.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 18:41
Subject: Re:Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
I know nobody’s kids on DCUMs are in general Ed classes in high school but this is absolutely the case in these classes. My neighbor teaches students like this because she tells me about them. She has kids who can barely read or write in these classes so she becomes a remedial teacher. There are kids in these classes who go to college. They cannot possibly be prepared for it.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 17:42
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:College is the new high school. Kids coming in are like middle school students from a decade or two ago. Poor reading and writing skills. Want to do corrections and have trouble with deadlines. Sure COVID made it worse but was getting progressively worse before COVID. I chalk it up to the advent of everyone getting a participation trophy.
Not all of them. My son went to a Catholic high school. The only change made by his school during Covid was that finals were optional for two years (and if you took them and they lowered your grade, you were stuck with it). He is an excellent writer. If something was more than a day late, he got a zero. There were no retakes and the lowest grade you could get was a zero, not a 50%. You are describing students coming from public schools where these policies were in place.
But the main problem with Catholic high schools is that the curriculum is not nearly as rigorous as in public schools. No need for retakes when the tests are so easy, amirite?
WTH? My son’s friends in public school don’t take midterms or finals. My son has been taking both since 3rd grade. He had essays on every test.
I’m not sure his friends in public have ever written anything to hand in longer than two pages. They asked him what a thesis statement was. This was in 12th grade. Public schools just don’t assign long writing assignments because the teachers have too many students to have time to grade them.
I went to Catholic schools and now my kids are in public. I agree Catholic schools have a much more robust writing curriculum, especially in ES. But let's not generalize to all public schools and classes, huh? This has not been true in our FCPS schools (again I have a lot of grievances but not fan of people pulling stuff out of their butts to make a point). And IB schools at the HS level do have a lot of writing.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 17:40
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:College is the new high school. Kids coming in are like middle school students from a decade or two ago. Poor reading and writing skills. Want to do corrections and have trouble with deadlines. Sure COVID made it worse but was getting progressively worse before COVID. I chalk it up to the advent of everyone getting a participation trophy.
Not all of them. My son went to a Catholic high school. The only change made by his school during Covid was that finals were optional for two years (and if you took them and they lowered your grade, you were stuck with it). He is an excellent writer. If something was more than a day late, he got a zero. There were no retakes and the lowest grade you could get was a zero, not a 50%. You are describing students coming from public schools where these policies were in place.
But the main problem with Catholic high schools is that the curriculum is not nearly as rigorous as in public schools. No need for retakes when the tests are so easy, amirite?
WTH? My son’s friends in public school don’t take midterms or finals. My son has been taking both since 3rd grade. He had essays on every test.
I’m not sure his friends in public have ever written anything to hand in longer than two pages. They asked him what a thesis statement was. This was in 12th grade. Public schools just don’t assign long writing assignments because the teachers have too many students to have time to grade them.
My DKs who were in Ffx county IB schools had midterms and finals and research papers and essays for tests in every class including PE and math.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 16:05
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:The New Infantilism began around 15 or 20 years ago. Students barely read anymore. And it's gotten worse with social media "discourse" becoming so important. They're more interested in Tiktok than Tolstoy.
THis. I stopped wanting to teach when I started having to compete with Youtube and everything else. Education is not entertainment and no matter how good I was I wasn't good enough to compete with content on the web. Computers in the classroom for note-taking made it much more difficult for professors.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 15:53
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Americans have been brainwashed and dumbed down to a level that you can't imagine.
Yep. Merit has been taken out of the equation. Which brain surgeon do you want? I'll take the smartest and most skilled---don't care anything about their personal life or race or religion or sexual orientation.
Sounds about white.
Love the one-answer-fits all-questions responses. The highways are racist. The weather is racist. Fossil fuels are racist. Testing is racist. Math is racist. Paper clips are racist.
You are denying the existence of medical racism?
Agree. Please see Henrietta Lacks.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 15:53
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Could also be TO and weaker admissions standards for “prestige” universities. It’s not just the pandemic.
TO has nothing to do with weather a student is prepared for college.
I would say I have not seen a major change. If anything, students seem better prepared overall. There are still a few that I was would have been required to talk a basic writing class. The one area I do see a difference is the extent to which students want to turn in work late. There doesn't seem to be the same priority for deadlines.
+1 My colleagues at T20 schools, SLACS, and public R1 universities report the same behavior I have observed since the pandemic. The majority of students are academically prepared; however, there has been an increase in the number of students who can't meet deadlines, ask to redo assignments, struggle with mental health, and chronically skip class.
I'm at a public R1, and our DRW rates have slightly increased since the pandemic; there is some evidence that some TO students are struggling in gateway math courses and had to repeat a course or switch majors. However, this is not a significant number of students compared to pre-TO data. Retention rates amongst TO students haven't decreased, and they are on track to graduate and not negatively impact our 4- or 6-year graduate rates.
OP - that is encouraging thank you .
OP - to clarify / Sorry the part about increased mental health issues is not encouraging but perfectly understandable given the collective traumas our youth experienced during the pandemic. I was aware and we already are quite proactive on the mental health front.
Yes you are right that this impacts executive functioning quite a lot. We will continue to work on those skill sets.
However, I had assumed there would be more impacts on academic skill sets as well and am encouraged that is reportedly not the case .
I think the mental heath issues pre-dated the pandemic. I think a lot of the mental health issues also stem from kids living under immense pressure and having their parents manage their entire lives.
OP - maybe but research is very mixed in that regard. Some research shows that college students with helicopter parents do better and are more confident because they know their parents support them and their success.
I am sure there is a balance to that and we parents have to gradually hand over the reigns to our children as they prepare for adult life.
I also think there are way more expectations placed on students now then when I was young.
We emphasize to our DC that there are many paths to success and that admission to prestigious brand name colleges is not the goal - rather to pursue studies they find interesting in a setting where they feel safe and happy and that eventually lead towards types of employments they will enjoy.
Hm. Can you provide links or guidance as to where to find these "mixed" research on outcomes/impacts of helicopter parenting? All the studies that I am familiar with point to negative impacts.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 15:44
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:I teach at community colleges. My classes are very heavy in requiring actual thinking, but the students seem prepared for only multiple-choice exams that require them to “recognize” answers, not come up with answers via intense thinking.
Student preparedness has been going down for about 10 yrs. I put most of the blame on high school teachers & their reliance on Scantrons. When a test approaches, the students’ main concern is whether they have to provide their own Scantrons. They are shocked when I tell them I’ve never used them for classroom evaluations.
Think about it. If your exam is all multiple-choice, you don’t really have to KNOW the material to pass; you usually just have to be vaguely familiar with the material.
It's 2023. They're not relying on Scantrons. They're relying on Quizlet, Kahoot, Nearpod, Canvas, and other systems that push multiple choice. Scantrons are dated at this point.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 15:30
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Americans have been brainwashed and dumbed down to a level that you can't imagine.
Yep. Merit has been taken out of the equation. Which brain surgeon do you want? I'll take the smartest and most skilled---don't care anything about their personal life or race or religion or sexual orientation.
Sounds about white.
Love the one-answer-fits all-questions responses. The highways are racist. The weather is racist. Fossil fuels are racist. Testing is racist. Math is racist. Paper clips are racist.
No, but pretty good chance you are, Whitey McWhiterson.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 15:26
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:The New Infantilism began around 15 or 20 years ago. Students barely read anymore. And it's gotten worse with social media "discourse" becoming so important. They're more interested in Tiktok than Tolstoy.
Not to mention all the 'equity-based math' wreaking havoc for basic math and beyond.
Anonymous
10/10/2023 15:23
Subject: Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Americans have been brainwashed and dumbed down to a level that you can't imagine.
Yep. Merit has been taken out of the equation. Which brain surgeon do you want? I'll take the smartest and most skilled---don't care anything about their personal life or race or religion or sexual orientation.
Sounds about white.
Love the one-answer-fits all-questions responses. The highways are racist. The weather is racist. Fossil fuels are racist. Testing is racist. Math is racist. Paper clips are racist.
You are denying the existence of medical racism?