Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4 shot at 14th and Saratoga NE.

Curious how as soon as gun carry permits were forced to be issued in DC we started having mass shootings every other day. Imagine that! Who woulda thunk???? Giving people permits to carry guns created more ……. shootings!

Mind. Blown.

Legal permit carriers weren't involved. The gun control lobby would benefit enormously from a basic understanding of who is committing city crime, the weapons they're using, and where they get them. Seriously, we'll never get real gun control passed as long as people like you keep talking. Stop it.

This is not a problem with "understanding".

This is a problem of ideology and not abandoning it when human nature and character actually shows it doesn't work.

DC displays heavy gun control. It's almost impossible to get a gun legally. They make sure of that.

Yet, this continues.

DC isn’t an island. All of the states with crappy gun control laws contribute to the gun violence.

This is nonsense. The things you want laws against (straw purchases, interstate sales, criminal misuse of firearms) are already unlawful. There is an unlimited supply of firearms waiting all over the world for it to be smuggled instead of or with drugs and other contraband. And “gun violence” is a political buzzword. Guns are inanimate. They do nothing. The most powerful firearm in the world, fully loaded, will harm no one without criminal misuse. The problem is criminal psychopaths and the quislings in government who continue to blame decent people and restrict their rights instead of holding criminals accountable.

Then why do we have souch more gun violence than other countries with much stricter gun control?

I tend to agree that the problem is ALSO cultural, but think one reason our culture is so violent is the glorification of guns. These things go hand in hand.

All cultures have people who are impulsive, mentally unstable, and violent. But in our culture, those people have a lot of access to guns (legal and illegal, once you have lots of guns in the population, there will inevitably be a thriving illegal gun trade) and this we have lots of gun deaths. Other countries deal with violence, but less of it and it's less deadly because the weapons people have access to are less deadly.

I'm in favor of gun control. But D.C. already has tons of gun control laws, the problem is they aren't being enforced. Many of the people who don't want them to be enforced go around complaining that we need more gun control laws, which they'll then come out and say shouldn't be enforced either. It's madness.

You can complain all day about the NRA, but if you don't care that D.C. doesn't enforce it's gun laws, you're honestly as bad as they are.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/why-most-gun-arrests-in-dc-dont-lead

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the gun lobby and those who’ve insisted the second amendment is an individual right. This is your fault. The blood is on your hands.

There were a lot of homicides by firearm in the city before DC v. Heller (a LOT more if you go back a decade or two), so I'm not sure I see the direct connection here. I'll agree that the black market for illegal firearms is a real problem, and lax enforcement (and perhaps lax laws) are a major issue that needs to be addressed. However, laying this at the feet of legal gun owners, as the OP did, is ludicrous.

If you could somehow make all firearms in civilian hands disappear overnight, I strongly believe you'd still see a lot of violence in the same areas by the same people. Sure, it would likely be less lethal, but let's not just forget the other side of the coin here.

Legal gun owners should be pushing for common sense gun laws that help LEO do their job.

Legal DC gun owner here. I'd LOVE to see some actual enforcement of existing laws. That seems to be particularly lacking here lately. I'm not sure what new laws would be needed, at least here in the District.

This is two pronged. Existing laws don't really do much about the fact that straw purchase and trafficking is so easy in parts of the country and that is the predominant way that our local criminals obtain their guns. So our local city is flush with guns illegally obtained, in part, because of more lax laws in other parts of the country.

On the other hand, there has been plenty of data posted (I follow DC Crime Facts) about issues with local DC prosecution of criminals - i.e. DC has a high rate of declining to prosecute, offenders are arrested and let go too easily and commit the same crime again within days, DC crime lab remains uncertified which impacts ability to prosecute, and more...

DC gun owner here again. Great points, particularly on the first one about straw purchases. As a gun owner, I would really hope the firearms groups like NSFF, NRA, etc. would be pushing hard for cracking down on shenanigans like straw purchases and illegal firearms trafficking.

Sure, but there isn't much they can do when existing laws make it so easy. Unless *certain* states tighten their laws to match other, more stringent, states, there won't be much legal authorities can do to actually reduce these purchases. Lax laws mean hands are tied.

Leaving aside prescribed medication, it has been unlawful for decades to possess, transport, purchase, sell, manufacture or import a huge number of drugs. The authorities regularly confiscate huge quantities of those very drugs. What makes you think that more laws infringing the rights of decent people will work any better against criminals who misuse firearms. If criminal enterprises can import tons of drugs, they can import tons of weapons, including military hardware that currently is not often seen in criminal hands.

If you think “lax laws” are the reasons criminals have and misuse firearms, you haven’t been paying attention. Straw purchase is a federal felony, punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. A felon or other prohibited person in possession of a firearm likewise is a federal felony, and also punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. It is a federal crime to purchase or sell a handgun outside the purchaser’s state of residence, again punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine.

The problem isn’t guns. The problem isn’t “lax laws.” The problem isn’t straw purchases. The problem is criminal psychopaths, and the authorities that refuse to prosecute and imprison them.

If gun laws weren't a *part* of the problem, then criminals wouldn't resort to obtaining them from states with loose gun laws. The simple fact that they go to such states to obtain guns shows that in fact, gun laws work - but the problem is, they are not applied consistently.

Why do you only care about the end criminal, and not the start criminal? States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Many gun dealers are still willing to knowingly make sales to straw purchasers.
A national phone survey of retail gun dealers found that half of the gun dealers indicated a willingness to make a sale under circumstances of questionable legality.
States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Susan B. Sorenson and Katherine A. Vittes, “Buying a Handgun for Someone Else: Firearm Dealer Willingness to Sell,” Injury Prevention 9, no. 2 (2003): 147–150; Garen Wintemute, “Firearm Retailers’ Willingness to Participate in an Illegal Gun Purchase,” Journal of Urban Health 87, no. 5 (2010): 865–878

Gun owner here again. The first bolded statement doesn't surprise me, and I'd be interested in ways we can all get that number to be lower. What I don't get is where "expanded" NICS checks would help if it's gun dealers (i.e. FFL sales that are required to do NICS checks) that are making straw purchases. Is it just lax monitoring and enforcement by states and/or ATF of gun dealers in certain states? Or is there a more fundamental issue with state laws in those states?

Go poke around on the Giffords website, unless you're so worried their info is biased, you'd prefer not to look. I find their site helpful and straightforward, and most importantly, DATA DRIVEN.

Brady (Republican) also has some great common sense gun control proposals.

https://www.bradyunited.org/the-brady-plan

Any legal gun owner should support these.

My concerns about NICS checks being expanded to cover private sales is that it's essentially meaningless since most states don't require registration of long guns. The only way to actually enforce it would be to require some sort of federal legislation (or all states doing it in state law) that requires registration of all firearms. One could certainly argue in favor of federal registration, but let's not pretend it's just about expanding background checks to cover things like private sales. I do actually support quite a few of Brady's recommendations, FWIW.

Criminals don’t register guns any more often than they use only prescribed narcotics, precisely in accordance with label directions, or respect property rights. Long guns are used in an infinitesimal number of crimes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the gun lobby and those who’ve insisted the second amendment is an individual right. This is your fault. The blood is on your hands.

There were a lot of homicides by firearm in the city before DC v. Heller (a LOT more if you go back a decade or two), so I'm not sure I see the direct connection here. I'll agree that the black market for illegal firearms is a real problem, and lax enforcement (and perhaps lax laws) are a major issue that needs to be addressed. However, laying this at the feet of legal gun owners, as the OP did, is ludicrous.

If you could somehow make all firearms in civilian hands disappear overnight, I strongly believe you'd still see a lot of violence in the same areas by the same people. Sure, it would likely be less lethal, but let's not just forget the other side of the coin here.

Legal gun owners should be pushing for common sense gun laws that help LEO do their job.

Legal DC gun owner here. I'd LOVE to see some actual enforcement of existing laws. That seems to be particularly lacking here lately. I'm not sure what new laws would be needed, at least here in the District.

This is two pronged. Existing laws don't really do much about the fact that straw purchase and trafficking is so easy in parts of the country and that is the predominant way that our local criminals obtain their guns. So our local city is flush with guns illegally obtained, in part, because of more lax laws in other parts of the country.

On the other hand, there has been plenty of data posted (I follow DC Crime Facts) about issues with local DC prosecution of criminals - i.e. DC has a high rate of declining to prosecute, offenders are arrested and let go too easily and commit the same crime again within days, DC crime lab remains uncertified which impacts ability to prosecute, and more...

DC gun owner here again. Great points, particularly on the first one about straw purchases. As a gun owner, I would really hope the firearms groups like NSFF, NRA, etc. would be pushing hard for cracking down on shenanigans like straw purchases and illegal firearms trafficking.

Sure, but there isn't much they can do when existing laws make it so easy. Unless *certain* states tighten their laws to match other, more stringent, states, there won't be much legal authorities can do to actually reduce these purchases. Lax laws mean hands are tied.

Leaving aside prescribed medication, it has been unlawful for decades to possess, transport, purchase, sell, manufacture or import a huge number of drugs. The authorities regularly confiscate huge quantities of those very drugs. What makes you think that more laws infringing the rights of decent people will work any better against criminals who misuse firearms. If criminal enterprises can import tons of drugs, they can import tons of weapons, including military hardware that currently is not often seen in criminal hands.

If you think “lax laws” are the reasons criminals have and misuse firearms, you haven’t been paying attention. Straw purchase is a federal felony, punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. A felon or other prohibited person in possession of a firearm likewise is a federal felony, and also punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. It is a federal crime to purchase or sell a handgun outside the purchaser’s state of residence, again punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine.

The problem isn’t guns. The problem isn’t “lax laws.” The problem isn’t straw purchases. The problem is criminal psychopaths, and the authorities that refuse to prosecute and imprison them.

If gun laws weren't a *part* of the problem, then criminals wouldn't resort to obtaining them from states with loose gun laws. The simple fact that they go to such states to obtain guns shows that in fact, gun laws work - but the problem is, they are not applied consistently.

Why do you only care about the end criminal, and not the start criminal? States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Many gun dealers are still willing to knowingly make sales to straw purchasers.
A national phone survey of retail gun dealers found that half of the gun dealers indicated a willingness to make a sale under circumstances of questionable legality.
States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Susan B. Sorenson and Katherine A. Vittes, “Buying a Handgun for Someone Else: Firearm Dealer Willingness to Sell,” Injury Prevention 9, no. 2 (2003): 147–150; Garen Wintemute, “Firearm Retailers’ Willingness to Participate in an Illegal Gun Purchase,” Journal of Urban Health 87, no. 5 (2010): 865–878

Gun owner here again. The first bolded statement doesn't surprise me, and I'd be interested in ways we can all get that number to be lower. What I don't get is where "expanded" NICS checks would help if it's gun dealers (i.e. FFL sales that are required to do NICS checks) that are making straw purchases. Is it just lax monitoring and enforcement by states and/or ATF of gun dealers in certain states? Or is there a more fundamental issue with state laws in those states?

Go poke around on the Giffords website, unless you're so worried their info is biased, you'd prefer not to look. I find their site helpful and straightforward, and most importantly, DATA DRIVEN.

Brady (Republican) also has some great common sense gun control proposals.

https://www.bradyunited.org/the-brady-plan

Any legal gun owner should support these.

Jim Brady was a Republican. The organization founded by his wife after he was shot by a madman attempting to take the life of Ronald Reagan certainly is not. Nothing about the enduring and raft of additional gun restrictions complied with “common sense.” “Gun control” has been around since the Civil War, when it was implemented to disarm free Blacks as part of Jim Crow policies. The present day gun restrictions in the US began in the 30’s in response to criminal gang warfare, and expanded from the 60’s onward, modeled on the laws the Nazis used to render their opponents helpless. None of these laws have reduced criminal violence because they punish decent people instead of criminals. But angry, violent people, afraid of what they might do if armed, continue to press for more pointless, ineffective restrictions and object to putting criminals where they can do no more harm. That is “wishcraft,” not common sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two words. Better. Parenting.

If only the dads hadn’t been thrown away by the zero tolerance policy

The problem with missing fathers dates back to the Stone Age, but was vastly accelerated by, among other things, the cynical “great society” programs of the 60’s onward, which encouraged family abandonment by making the manufacture of illegitimate children a profitable enterprise. The “Sexusl Revolution” and associated abandonment of any sense of moral responsibility associated with sexual relations made things even worse. The dehumanization of the poor and their exploitation by ruthless self-serving politicians finished the job. By the time “zero tolerance” came along to end the cocaine wars in the streets, fatherless homes were the norm in some communities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4 shot at 14th and Saratoga NE.

Curious how as soon as gun carry permits were forced to be issued in DC we started having mass shootings every other day. Imagine that! Who woulda thunk???? Giving people permits to carry guns created more ……. shootings!

Mind. Blown.

Legal permit carriers weren't involved. The gun control lobby would benefit enormously from a basic understanding of who is committing city crime, the weapons they're using, and where they get them. Seriously, we'll never get real gun control passed as long as people like you keep talking. Stop it.

This is not a problem with "understanding".

This is a problem of ideology and not abandoning it when human nature and character actually shows it doesn't work.

DC displays heavy gun control. It's almost impossible to get a gun legally. They make sure of that.

Yet, this continues.

DC isn’t an island. All of the states with crappy gun control laws contribute to the gun violence.

This is nonsense. The things you want laws against (straw purchases, interstate sales, criminal misuse of firearms) are already unlawful. There is an unlimited supply of firearms waiting all over the world for it to be smuggled instead of or with drugs and other contraband. And “gun violence” is a political buzzword. Guns are inanimate. They do nothing. The most powerful firearm in the world, fully loaded, will harm no one without criminal misuse. The problem is criminal psychopaths and the quislings in government who continue to blame decent people and restrict their rights instead of holding criminals accountable.

Anonymous wrote:Two words. Better. Parenting.

If only the dads hadn’t been thrown away by the zero tolerance policy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the gun lobby and those who’ve insisted the second amendment is an individual right. This is your fault. The blood is on your hands.

There were a lot of homicides by firearm in the city before DC v. Heller (a LOT more if you go back a decade or two), so I'm not sure I see the direct connection here. I'll agree that the black market for illegal firearms is a real problem, and lax enforcement (and perhaps lax laws) are a major issue that needs to be addressed. However, laying this at the feet of legal gun owners, as the OP did, is ludicrous.

If you could somehow make all firearms in civilian hands disappear overnight, I strongly believe you'd still see a lot of violence in the same areas by the same people. Sure, it would likely be less lethal, but let's not just forget the other side of the coin here.

Legal gun owners should be pushing for common sense gun laws that help LEO do their job.

Legal DC gun owner here. I'd LOVE to see some actual enforcement of existing laws. That seems to be particularly lacking here lately. I'm not sure what new laws would be needed, at least here in the District.

This is two pronged. Existing laws don't really do much about the fact that straw purchase and trafficking is so easy in parts of the country and that is the predominant way that our local criminals obtain their guns. So our local city is flush with guns illegally obtained, in part, because of more lax laws in other parts of the country.

On the other hand, there has been plenty of data posted (I follow DC Crime Facts) about issues with local DC prosecution of criminals - i.e. DC has a high rate of declining to prosecute, offenders are arrested and let go too easily and commit the same crime again within days, DC crime lab remains uncertified which impacts ability to prosecute, and more...

DC gun owner here again. Great points, particularly on the first one about straw purchases. As a gun owner, I would really hope the firearms groups like NSFF, NRA, etc. would be pushing hard for cracking down on shenanigans like straw purchases and illegal firearms trafficking.

Sure, but there isn't much they can do when existing laws make it so easy. Unless *certain* states tighten their laws to match other, more stringent, states, there won't be much legal authorities can do to actually reduce these purchases. Lax laws mean hands are tied.

Leaving aside prescribed medication, it has been unlawful for decades to possess, transport, purchase, sell, manufacture or import a huge number of drugs. The authorities regularly confiscate huge quantities of those very drugs. What makes you think that more laws infringing the rights of decent people will work any better against criminals who misuse firearms. If criminal enterprises can import tons of drugs, they can import tons of weapons, including military hardware that currently is not often seen in criminal hands.

If you think “lax laws” are the reasons criminals have and misuse firearms, you haven’t been paying attention. Straw purchase is a federal felony, punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. A felon or other prohibited person in possession of a firearm likewise is a federal felony, and also punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. It is a federal crime to purchase or sell a handgun outside the purchaser’s state of residence, again punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine.

The problem isn’t guns. The problem isn’t “lax laws.” The problem isn’t straw purchases. The problem is criminal psychopaths, and the authorities that refuse to prosecute and imprison them.

If gun laws weren't a *part* of the problem, then criminals wouldn't resort to obtaining them from states with loose gun laws. The simple fact that they go to such states to obtain guns shows that in fact, gun laws work - but the problem is, they are not applied consistently.

Why do you only care about the end criminal, and not the start criminal? States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Many gun dealers are still willing to knowingly make sales to straw purchasers.
A national phone survey of retail gun dealers found that half of the gun dealers indicated a willingness to make a sale under circumstances of questionable legality.
States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Susan B. Sorenson and Katherine A. Vittes, “Buying a Handgun for Someone Else: Firearm Dealer Willingness to Sell,” Injury Prevention 9, no. 2 (2003): 147–150; Garen Wintemute, “Firearm Retailers’ Willingness to Participate in an Illegal Gun Purchase,” Journal of Urban Health 87, no. 5 (2010): 865–878

Gun owner here again. The first bolded statement doesn't surprise me, and I'd be interested in ways we can all get that number to be lower. What I don't get is where "expanded" NICS checks would help if it's gun dealers (i.e. FFL sales that are required to do NICS checks) that are making straw purchases. Is it just lax monitoring and enforcement by states and/or ATF of gun dealers in certain states? Or is there a more fundamental issue with state laws in those states?

Go poke around on the Giffords website, unless you're so worried their info is biased, you'd prefer not to look. I find their site helpful and straightforward, and most importantly, DATA DRIVEN.

Brady (Republican) also has some great common sense gun control proposals.

https://www.bradyunited.org/the-brady-plan

Any legal gun owner should support these.

The first two proposals are ok with me, but then they go off the rails after that. That’s the problem with Brady.

Banning “assault weapons”? The problem is the definition of “assault weapon” has been made so broad by groups like Brady and EveryTown that it encompasses most of the guns in existence. That’s both absurd AND disingenuous. Stick with the pentagon’s definition of an assault weapon - they’re the experts.

Repealing lawful commerce in arms protection? The only purpose of that is to allow unending lawfare tactics to drive gun manufacturers out of business. You can’t sue Honda or Budweiser because a drunk driver hit you. If you could, we wouldn’t have cars, alcohol, or anything else after a few years of ridiculous lawsuits.

Bump stocks? Trump banned them. Done.

“Smart gun” mandates? So what happens when the gun firmware gets hacked and it’s bricked? What if the tech malfunctions and keeps it from being used and the owner is harmed because they couldn’t defend themselves? Sounds like a great way to be sued out of business (see point 2)

It goes on and on….



Sure, background checks on private sales? Great. Expand prohibition to intimate partners? Sure. Have the CDC study why people get shot? Ok, I suppose…but we already tend to know the reasons people get shot, and it’s not really a mystery most of the time, so I’m not sure what that’s supposed to accomplish other than spending money….


Beyond those, I can’t really support the rest of that list. And I say that as a slightly left-of-center independent. If I can’t get down with that stuff, how do you possibly sell it to the larger majority of Americans who are to the right of me?


You can’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the gun lobby and those who’ve insisted the second amendment is an individual right. This is your fault. The blood is on your hands.

There were a lot of homicides by firearm in the city before DC v. Heller (a LOT more if you go back a decade or two), so I'm not sure I see the direct connection here. I'll agree that the black market for illegal firearms is a real problem, and lax enforcement (and perhaps lax laws) are a major issue that needs to be addressed. However, laying this at the feet of legal gun owners, as the OP did, is ludicrous.

If you could somehow make all firearms in civilian hands disappear overnight, I strongly believe you'd still see a lot of violence in the same areas by the same people. Sure, it would likely be less lethal, but let's not just forget the other side of the coin here.

Legal gun owners should be pushing for common sense gun laws that help LEO do their job.

Legal DC gun owner here. I'd LOVE to see some actual enforcement of existing laws. That seems to be particularly lacking here lately. I'm not sure what new laws would be needed, at least here in the District.

This is two pronged. Existing laws don't really do much about the fact that straw purchase and trafficking is so easy in parts of the country and that is the predominant way that our local criminals obtain their guns. So our local city is flush with guns illegally obtained, in part, because of more lax laws in other parts of the country.

On the other hand, there has been plenty of data posted (I follow DC Crime Facts) about issues with local DC prosecution of criminals - i.e. DC has a high rate of declining to prosecute, offenders are arrested and let go too easily and commit the same crime again within days, DC crime lab remains uncertified which impacts ability to prosecute, and more...

DC gun owner here again. Great points, particularly on the first one about straw purchases. As a gun owner, I would really hope the firearms groups like NSFF, NRA, etc. would be pushing hard for cracking down on shenanigans like straw purchases and illegal firearms trafficking.

Sure, but there isn't much they can do when existing laws make it so easy. Unless *certain* states tighten their laws to match other, more stringent, states, there won't be much legal authorities can do to actually reduce these purchases. Lax laws mean hands are tied.

Leaving aside prescribed medication, it has been unlawful for decades to possess, transport, purchase, sell, manufacture or import a huge number of drugs. The authorities regularly confiscate huge quantities of those very drugs. What makes you think that more laws infringing the rights of decent people will work any better against criminals who misuse firearms. If criminal enterprises can import tons of drugs, they can import tons of weapons, including military hardware that currently is not often seen in criminal hands.

If you think “lax laws” are the reasons criminals have and misuse firearms, you haven’t been paying attention. Straw purchase is a federal felony, punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. A felon or other prohibited person in possession of a firearm likewise is a federal felony, and also punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. It is a federal crime to purchase or sell a handgun outside the purchaser’s state of residence, again punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine.

The problem isn’t guns. The problem isn’t “lax laws.” The problem isn’t straw purchases. The problem is criminal psychopaths, and the authorities that refuse to prosecute and imprison them.

If gun laws weren't a *part* of the problem, then criminals wouldn't resort to obtaining them from states with loose gun laws. The simple fact that they go to such states to obtain guns shows that in fact, gun laws work - but the problem is, they are not applied consistently.

Why do you only care about the end criminal, and not the start criminal? States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Many gun dealers are still willing to knowingly make sales to straw purchasers.
A national phone survey of retail gun dealers found that half of the gun dealers indicated a willingness to make a sale under circumstances of questionable legality.
States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Susan B. Sorenson and Katherine A. Vittes, “Buying a Handgun for Someone Else: Firearm Dealer Willingness to Sell,” Injury Prevention 9, no. 2 (2003): 147–150; Garen Wintemute, “Firearm Retailers’ Willingness to Participate in an Illegal Gun Purchase,” Journal of Urban Health 87, no. 5 (2010): 865–878

Gun owner here again. The first bolded statement doesn't surprise me, and I'd be interested in ways we can all get that number to be lower. What I don't get is where "expanded" NICS checks would help if it's gun dealers (i.e. FFL sales that are required to do NICS checks) that are making straw purchases. Is it just lax monitoring and enforcement by states and/or ATF of gun dealers in certain states? Or is there a more fundamental issue with state laws in those states?

Go poke around on the Giffords website, unless you're so worried their info is biased, you'd prefer not to look. I find their site helpful and straightforward, and most importantly, DATA DRIVEN.

Brady (Republican) also has some great common sense gun control proposals.

https://www.bradyunited.org/the-brady-plan

Any legal gun owner should support these.

My concerns about NICS checks being expanded to cover private sales is that it's essentially meaningless since most states don't require registration of long guns. The only way to actually enforce it would be to require some sort of federal legislation (or all states doing it in state law) that requires registration of all firearms. One could certainly argue in favor of federal registration, but let's not pretend it's just about expanding background checks to cover things like private sales. I do actually support quite a few of Brady's recommendations, FWIW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the gun lobby and those who’ve insisted the second amendment is an individual right. This is your fault. The blood is on your hands.

There were a lot of homicides by firearm in the city before DC v. Heller (a LOT more if you go back a decade or two), so I'm not sure I see the direct connection here. I'll agree that the black market for illegal firearms is a real problem, and lax enforcement (and perhaps lax laws) are a major issue that needs to be addressed. However, laying this at the feet of legal gun owners, as the OP did, is ludicrous.

If you could somehow make all firearms in civilian hands disappear overnight, I strongly believe you'd still see a lot of violence in the same areas by the same people. Sure, it would likely be less lethal, but let's not just forget the other side of the coin here.

Legal gun owners should be pushing for common sense gun laws that help LEO do their job.

Legal DC gun owner here. I'd LOVE to see some actual enforcement of existing laws. That seems to be particularly lacking here lately. I'm not sure what new laws would be needed, at least here in the District.

This is two pronged. Existing laws don't really do much about the fact that straw purchase and trafficking is so easy in parts of the country and that is the predominant way that our local criminals obtain their guns. So our local city is flush with guns illegally obtained, in part, because of more lax laws in other parts of the country.

On the other hand, there has been plenty of data posted (I follow DC Crime Facts) about issues with local DC prosecution of criminals - i.e. DC has a high rate of declining to prosecute, offenders are arrested and let go too easily and commit the same crime again within days, DC crime lab remains uncertified which impacts ability to prosecute, and more...

DC gun owner here again. Great points, particularly on the first one about straw purchases. As a gun owner, I would really hope the firearms groups like NSFF, NRA, etc. would be pushing hard for cracking down on shenanigans like straw purchases and illegal firearms trafficking.

Sure, but there isn't much they can do when existing laws make it so easy. Unless *certain* states tighten their laws to match other, more stringent, states, there won't be much legal authorities can do to actually reduce these purchases. Lax laws mean hands are tied.

Leaving aside prescribed medication, it has been unlawful for decades to possess, transport, purchase, sell, manufacture or import a huge number of drugs. The authorities regularly confiscate huge quantities of those very drugs. What makes you think that more laws infringing the rights of decent people will work any better against criminals who misuse firearms. If criminal enterprises can import tons of drugs, they can import tons of weapons, including military hardware that currently is not often seen in criminal hands.

If you think “lax laws” are the reasons criminals have and misuse firearms, you haven’t been paying attention. Straw purchase is a federal felony, punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. A felon or other prohibited person in possession of a firearm likewise is a federal felony, and also punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine. It is a federal crime to purchase or sell a handgun outside the purchaser’s state of residence, again punishable by ten years in prison and a quarter million dollar fine.

The problem isn’t guns. The problem isn’t “lax laws.” The problem isn’t straw purchases. The problem is criminal psychopaths, and the authorities that refuse to prosecute and imprison them.

If gun laws weren't a *part* of the problem, then criminals wouldn't resort to obtaining them from states with loose gun laws. The simple fact that they go to such states to obtain guns shows that in fact, gun laws work - but the problem is, they are not applied consistently.

Why do you only care about the end criminal, and not the start criminal? States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Many gun dealers are still willing to knowingly make sales to straw purchasers.
A national phone survey of retail gun dealers found that half of the gun dealers indicated a willingness to make a sale under circumstances of questionable legality.
States without universal background check laws export crime guns across state lines at a 30% higher rate than states that require background checks on all gun sales

Susan B. Sorenson and Katherine A. Vittes, “Buying a Handgun for Someone Else: Firearm Dealer Willingness to Sell,” Injury Prevention 9, no. 2 (2003): 147–150; Garen Wintemute, “Firearm Retailers’ Willingness to Participate in an Illegal Gun Purchase,” Journal of Urban Health 87, no. 5 (2010): 865–878

Gun owner here again. The first bolded statement doesn't surprise me, and I'd be interested in ways we can all get that number to be lower. What I don't get is where "expanded" NICS checks would help if it's gun dealers (i.e. FFL sales that are required to do NICS checks) that are making straw purchases. Is it just lax monitoring and enforcement by states and/or ATF of gun dealers in certain states? Or is there a more fundamental issue with state laws in those states?

Go poke around on the Giffords website, unless you're so worried their info is biased, you'd prefer not to look. I find their site helpful and straightforward, and most importantly, DATA DRIVEN.

Brady (Republican) also has some great common sense gun control proposals.

https://www.bradyunited.org/the-brady-plan

Any legal gun owner should support these.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4 shot at 14th and Saratoga NE.

Curious how as soon as gun carry permits were forced to be issued in DC we started having mass shootings every other day. Imagine that! Who woulda thunk???? Giving people permits to carry guns created more ……. shootings!

Mind. Blown.

Legal permit carriers weren't involved. The gun control lobby would benefit enormously from a basic understanding of who is committing city crime, the weapons they're using, and where they get them. Seriously, we'll never get real gun control passed as long as people like you keep talking. Stop it.

This is not a problem with "understanding".

This is a problem of ideology and not abandoning it when human nature and character actually shows it doesn't work.

DC displays heavy gun control. It's almost impossible to get a gun legally. They make sure of that.

Yet, this continues.

DC isn’t an island. All of the states with crappy gun control laws contribute to the gun violence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the gun lobby and those who’ve insisted the second amendment is an individual right. This is your fault. The blood is on your hands.

There were a lot of homicides by firearm in the city before DC v. Heller (a LOT more if you go back a decade or two), so I'm not sure I see the direct connection here. I'll agree that the black market for illegal firearms is a real problem, and lax enforcement (and perhaps lax laws) are a major issue that needs to be addressed. However, laying this at the feet of legal gun owners, as the OP did, is ludicrous.

If you could somehow make all firearms in civilian hands disappear overnight, I strongly believe you'd still see a lot of violence in the same areas by the same people. Sure, it would likely be less lethal, but let's not just forget the other side of the coin here.

Legal gun owners should be pushing for common sense gun laws that help LEO do their job.

Legal DC gun owner here. I'd LOVE to see some actual enforcement of existing laws. That seems to be particularly lacking here lately. I'm not sure what new laws would be needed, at least here in the District.

Sincere questions for you, “Mr Legal Gun Owner”:

Would you support a law that banned your ability to possess a gun, to reduce gun crime?

If not, why?

If such a law were passed, would you abide by it? Knowing that you could no longer be a gun owner?

If you wouldn’t abide by such a future law, don’t you agree that that makes you too dangerous to own a gun NOW?




I’m genuinely curious to hear your answer. I’ve never in my life known anyone who had a gun, so I find you types of people curiosities that I’d like to ponder and learn more about.

It's me, the DC gun owner, again. Just for the record, that wasn't me above saying your question was a logical fallacy.

With that out of the way, I'm not sure I understand the premise of your question. Are you asking if I'd support a law that banned my ability to possess a certain type of number of firearms, or are you asking if I'd support a law that made it illegal for me (and millions of others like me) from possessing ANY firearm at all?

If it's the latter, it's really not a question based at all in the reality of public policy. I'm not accusing you of asking it in bad faith, but it's more from ignorance of the issue, which is understandable. If I understand what you're asking, it sounds like the implication is that making someone a felon by possession through no action on their part (law abiding one day and a felon the next due to a change in the law) is morally equivalent to someone who's a felon as a result of using the same firearm in the commission of a crime. I reject that premise.

Also, I doubt many people would accept the premise that going door to door to confiscate firearms would actually reduce violent crime in a meaningful way, particularly without creating a whole new set of problems at the same time. It's a bit like arguing we should reduce the speed limits on interstates to 40 mph to save lives. It wouldn't really do what was intended in the end.

Finally, I'd just add that I seriously doubt you don't know any gun owners. I believe you don't think you do, but I bet you do. We're not all a bunch of rednecks and/or right wingers.

If I'm misinterpreting your question, please clarify, and I'd be happy to address it further.

Blah blah blah TLDR, nothing but nra platitudes.

You did get at least ONE thing right though- going door-to-door and confiscating all them IS the only thing that will work. So that’s why I $$$ support any candidate willing to promote that solution.

I’m a pragmatic Progressive. Even if we outlawed all sales of guns tomorrow, that still leaves 400+ million of them in the hands of criminals, and would-be criminals, like you. So any gun control that doesn’t have a component of taking them away from the people who already have them, is a pointless do-nothing, non-starter.

We need the 28th Amendment, as well as the elimination of the 2nd amendment, and modification clauses to the 4th, 5th, and 10th Amendments with regard to guns, which strips protections for individuals illegally possessing guns after they are outlawed.

It’s a very simple plan. All we are lacking as a nation is the courage to elect people who will do it.

Will the minions you’re sending to seize people’s belongings be armed with anything more than gentle persuasive words?

No, I’m sure they’ll be armed with the most lethally effective guns available to the police and military. Overwhelming force to crush would-be insurgents and future insurrectionists thinking they can still cling to their guns after we change the constitution. Personally, I hope many of them offer some kind of resistance and get slaughtered by the police or army.

I don't understand what world you live in. You aren't changing the Constitution without three-fourth's of the states?!

More than that, have you heard how many sheriffs have said I'm not enforcing X? They've said it again and again every time some politician says they're going to do Y. They are the law.

More than that, you assume that the army is on your side. Do you really think that? "Oh, they'll follow orders!" REALLY?

The army couldn't control a bunch of backwater taliban in the hills. What do you think bubba and his redneck friends, who are former military and armed tot he teeth will do? What will happen is we'll never find out, because the people on base aren't going to do a damn thing you tell them WRT to firearms.

You want them, you go door to door and get shot. You're living in a dream world. This is not Australia or the U.K.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYC proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that point-of-use gun control has a huge impact of reducing the murder rate.

Sadly, they dropped that policy and murder has skyrocketed.

What is point of use gun control?
I've lived in NY for 20 years and never heard this term.
Also did a quick Google search and could find no info.
Thank you.

I call it "point of use gun control" and it has proven effective. Other people call it stop and frisk.

Ok. Thanks.
Yes stop and frisk was effective tho not without its own set of problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4 shot at 14th and Saratoga NE.

Curious how as soon as gun carry permits were forced to be issued in DC we started having mass shootings every other day. Imagine that! Who woulda thunk???? Giving people permits to carry guns created more ……. shootings!

Mind. Blown.

Legal permit carriers weren't involved. The gun control lobby would benefit enormously from a basic understanding of who is committing city crime, the weapons they're using, and where they get them. Seriously, we'll never get real gun control passed as long as people like you keep talking. Stop it.

This is not a problem with "understanding".

This is a problem of ideology and not abandoning it when human nature and character actually shows it doesn't work.

DC displays heavy gun control. It's almost impossible to get a gun legally. They make sure of that.

Yet, this continues.

We won’t stop and frisk for illegal guns and you and you have people who want to seize legal guns. Madness.