Anonymous wrote:AAP is slightly better than general ed. It is actually at a level that every kid should be taught at. Nothing even remotely advanced.

You dont need to prepare to be "able to survive AAP". It is not MIT. Anyone who gets to school on time would do well.

/agree

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gifted will standout with their scores (>140 NNAT and CoGAT, with a similar WISC, regardless of poor GBRS). The borderlined will need the parents to work hard to build a good relationship with the teacher for a nice GBRS.

Our teacher at a center school said this profile would not be admitted to AAP because it was clearly a prepped kid. Said you need both the test scores AND the class work/behavior to get in.

That's odd since prep is usually a golden ticket to these programs.

Anonymous wrote:AAP is slightly better than general ed. It is actually at a level that every kid should be taught at. Nothing even remotely advanced.

You dont need to prepare to be "able to survive AAP". It is not MIT. Anyone who gets to school on time would do well.

This isn't accurate at all.

AAP is slightly better than general ed. It is actually at a level that every kid should be taught at. Nothing even remotely advanced.

You dont need to prepare to be "able to survive AAP". It is not MIT. Anyone who gets to school on time would do well.

I know what worked for my kid: wake up 5:00 am every morning and practice math and reading; no sports or TV; no food till all work is done; good quality belt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They played different board games at a very young age, worked on sudoku puzzles around age 3. About two grades ahead in math, I started teaching them at an early age since I have an advanced degree in applied mathematics. My 3rd grader can do simple algebra and my kindergartener can do 2nd grade math. My 3rd grader is doing AOPS on the side now. They watched a lot of educational videos with me very early on mostly discovery and history programs, and developed a wide range of interests.
My older boy was bored in class, but I did not say it, I simply pointed out that he use the first 10 mins to complete all the work, and spend the rest of the time waiting, and was denied of extra worksheets. He had invention ideas, he explained what the inventions are, who will use the invention, how the invention will work, and how it will benefit humanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He did not prep at home other than the 1 week of prep that the general ed teachers did in class for NNAT and CoGAT, and was able to achieve 160NNAT, 144Cogat, 154 WISC (no prep at all), He’s WISC was in the 99.9%, he got into Davidson Institute before was accepted to AAP. So for people who said these scores are impossible to achieve without prep, it’s not true. He did 4th grade Singapore math at home and AOPS on the side, I used those works samples, and he writes short stories and had crazy invention ideas that he wrote down, we used those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He had 160 NNAT, 144Cogat, wasn’t admitted first round due to a rough relationship with the teacher…. Got in on appeal with the WISC score and appeal letter explaining the gifted behaviors and how he fits to a T (many quotes from Davidson Institute) and on how the county can better serve these kids…. Of course above grade work samples…. And these score are not hard to achieve even without prep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child got 154 WISC without any prep. All family members score above 140 on official IQ tests. Never thought my kid is gifted till the scores came in, and till he started to complain about his second grade work and teacher…. He did great in class works and was able to do 4th/5th grade math. But he ended up spending 5-10 mins doing the entire class’ work, he asked for extra worksheets and was denied by the teacher, had nothing to do for the rest of the time. He took books to class then teacher complained about he was reading books in class, he got so frustrated with the teacher. Of course he started picking up teachers mistakes, that didn’t go well either…

DP. Are you the poster whose DC was admitted first round? Not sure what you're complaining about?

What kind of work samples? And what do you mean "not hard to achieve without prep"? I rarely hear people stating such scores on this board. Lots of talk of 99th percentile, but that doesn't mean a whole lot given that we are in a very educated part of the country and state.

I think when people say such scores are not possible without prep that is shorthand for 'highly unlikely without test prep or true giftedness or extreme parental nurturance' of talent'. Of course there are people who are not prepping in the test prep sort of way and getting top scores. I'm going to guess that in addition to your child having natural abilities you are very involved in fostering your child's cognitive development/IQ.

Btw, kind of crazy invention ideas? I have heard a lot of talk on this board about what to submit/not submit (including don't submit worksheets, etc.), and also a lot of paranoid talk about not saying child is bored but rather needs AAP, etc. Sounds like you went with what you thought reflected your child's ability and that worked out well.

Butt kissing is for those whose kids are merely bright, whereas others might choose to craft a more complete story about giftedness to move a committee that lacks knowledge and is unduly suspicious of test scores.

from reading this thread, I got the impression that the former was for those whose kids were "merely" gifted (scores above 130 on actual IQ tests like the WISC) while the latter was for those whose children were extremely or profoundly gifted.

There are many things that you can get from this forum and this thread but most of it is nonsense. When you go to a classroom, the kids who you would expect to see in AAP are in AAP classes and the kids who you would expect to see in gen ed are in gen ed classes. The handful of kids who were not admitted but should have been are miniscule in number - and most of their parents find this site and post here.

If you look at the SOL Scores for 5th graders who took the 6th grade SOL (So AAP and Advanced Math) you find a count of 3,898 kids. The parents complaining about their kids not being accepted into LIV on this board is probably less then 1% of that. The kids who belong in LIV are ending up in LIV.

The parents who are worrying about what happens if their kid isn’t accepted into LIV when their kids are in K or first grade are overly concerned. There are a lot more then 4,000 kids taking AP/IB classes in HS across the county. Lots of non-LIV kids do very well in MS and HS and go on to good to great colleges.

Read to your kids. Play games with your kids. Take them to museums. Watch some cool documentaries. They will be fine. That is what we did with DS. He is a quieter kid and well behaved. He completed his work correctly, did the extra work the Teacher had assigned, and then read or wrote stories or found something to do that didn’t distract his classmates. He didn’t volunteer to answer a ton. His test scores were good, 135 on NNAT and COGAT so better then good but the crazy parents on this thread would think those are low even though they are 99th percentile.

The AART had no idea who we were. I sent one email when we got the NNAT scores back because I had no clue what they were and the report said to email her. We went to the LIV presentation in 2nd grade. We were not room parents. We didn’t volunteer at the school.

Let your kid be a kid and help them engage witht he world around them. There are far more important things then AAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They played different board games at a very young age, worked on sudoku puzzles around age 3. About two grades ahead in math, I started teaching them at an early age since I have an advanced degree in applied mathematics. My 3rd grader can do simple algebra and my kindergartener can do 2nd grade math. My 3rd grader is doing AOPS on the side now. They watched a lot of educational videos with me very early on mostly discovery and history programs, and developed a wide range of interests.
My older boy was bored in class, but I did not say it, I simply pointed out that he use the first 10 mins to complete all the work, and spend the rest of the time waiting, and was denied of extra worksheets. He had invention ideas, he explained what the inventions are, who will use the invention, how the invention will work, and how it will benefit humanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He did not prep at home other than the 1 week of prep that the general ed teachers did in class for NNAT and CoGAT, and was able to achieve 160NNAT, 144Cogat, 154 WISC (no prep at all), He’s WISC was in the 99.9%, he got into Davidson Institute before was accepted to AAP. So for people who said these scores are impossible to achieve without prep, it’s not true. He did 4th grade Singapore math at home and AOPS on the side, I used those works samples, and he writes short stories and had crazy invention ideas that he wrote down, we used those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He had 160 NNAT, 144Cogat, wasn’t admitted first round due to a rough relationship with the teacher…. Got in on appeal with the WISC score and appeal letter explaining the gifted behaviors and how he fits to a T (many quotes from Davidson Institute) and on how the county can better serve these kids…. Of course above grade work samples…. And these score are not hard to achieve even without prep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child got 154 WISC without any prep. All family members score above 140 on official IQ tests. Never thought my kid is gifted till the scores came in, and till he started to complain about his second grade work and teacher…. He did great in class works and was able to do 4th/5th grade math. But he ended up spending 5-10 mins doing the entire class’ work, he asked for extra worksheets and was denied by the teacher, had nothing to do for the rest of the time. He took books to class then teacher complained about he was reading books in class, he got so frustrated with the teacher. Of course he started picking up teachers mistakes, that didn’t go well either…

DP. Are you the poster whose DC was admitted first round? Not sure what you're complaining about?

What kind of work samples? And what do you mean "not hard to achieve without prep"? I rarely hear people stating such scores on this board. Lots of talk of 99th percentile, but that doesn't mean a whole lot given that we are in a very educated part of the country and state.

I think when people say such scores are not possible without prep that is shorthand for 'highly unlikely without test prep or true giftedness or extreme parental nurturance' of talent'. Of course there are people who are not prepping in the test prep sort of way and getting top scores. I'm going to guess that in addition to your child having natural abilities you are very involved in fostering your child's cognitive development/IQ.

Btw, kind of crazy invention ideas? I have heard a lot of talk on this board about what to submit/not submit (including don't submit worksheets, etc.), and also a lot of paranoid talk about not saying child is bored but rather needs AAP, etc. Sounds like you went with what you thought reflected your child's ability and that worked out well.

Butt kissing is for those whose kids are merely bright, whereas others might choose to craft a more complete story about giftedness to move a committee that lacks knowledge and is unduly suspicious of test scores.

from reading this thread, I got the impression that the former was for those whose kids were "merely" gifted (scores above 130 on actual IQ tests like the WISC) while the latter was for those whose children were extremely or profoundly gifted.

There are many things that you can get from this forum and this thread but most of it is nonsense. When you go to a classroom, the kids who you would expect to see in AAP are in AAP classes and the kids who you would expect to see in gen ed are in gen ed classes. The handful of kids who were not admitted but should have been are miniscule in number - and most of their parents find this site and post here.

AAP curriculum is not at the “genius”
level. Its actually at the level that it should be at.

OP: basic math drills and reading. that works

Yea, PP here, after he took the WISC at George Mason the psychologist said he never seen a kid like him. The score was 1 in 10,000. For teachers teaching 30 years might not seen a kid like this. His frustration with his general ed teacher in 2nd grade made him agitated and combative, it was obviously the wrong environment and peer group. On the appeal letter I did not just focus on the educational aspect, I focused mostly on the social and emotional aspects. Based on Davidson Institutes 40% of profoundly gifted individuals became under achievers because they were put in the wrong environment with the wrong peer group when they were growing up. He can be PITA in the house as well, never stop asking why, when, what, where, and how…. I’m glad it works out now, after the first day of 3rd grade, he came home and told me there was a girl talked back at the teacher, and the teacher wasn’t mad!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
good to know the committee was moved by your appeal. (You'd think they'd already know what gifted kids need...)

DP. Really, though, the committee is just made up of a mixture of school administrators, school psychologists, 2nd grade teachers, AAP teachers, AARTs, special ed teachers, etc. who've had a brief training on what to look for when reviewing AAP applications. I wouldn't expect them to be experts on giftedness or especially on kids with a 145+ IQ, who are still quite rare in FCPS, despite what people claim on dcum.

For PP's kid, it sounds like the 2nd grade teacher didn't understand PP's kid and thought he was a PITA, so she gave a very low GBRS. Then, the selection panel could have included one person who thought that a low motivation score means that the kid wouldn't have wanted to be in AAP, so they were protecting the kid by rejecting them. Another person on the panel might be the type who thinks that high test scores + low GBRS means a prepped, but average kid. Perhaps an AAP teacher on the panel prefers having bright people pleasers in her classroom over gifted but difficult kids, and judged accordingly.

This is why so many PPs suggested ways to try to get a higher GBRS in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:
good to know the committee was moved by your appeal. (You'd think they'd already know what gifted kids need...)

DP. Really, though, the committee is just made up of a mixture of school administrators, school psychologists, 2nd grade teachers, AAP teachers, AARTs, special ed teachers, etc. who've had a brief training on what to look for when reviewing AAP applications. I wouldn't expect them to be experts on giftedness or especially on kids with a 145+ IQ, who are still quite rare in FCPS, despite what people claim on dcum.

For PP's kid, it sounds like the 2nd grade teacher didn't understand PP's kid and thought he was a PITA, so she gave a very low GBRS. Then, the selection panel could have included one person who thought that a low motivation score means that the kid wouldn't have wanted to be in AAP, so they were protecting the kid by rejecting them. Another person on the panel might be the type who thinks that high test scores + low GBRS means a prepped, but average kid. Perhaps an AAP teacher on the panel prefers having bright people pleasers in her classroom over gifted but difficult kids, and judged accordingly.

This is why so many PPs suggested ways to try to get a higher GBRS in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:They played different board games at a very young age, worked on sudoku puzzles around age 3. About two grades ahead in math, I started teaching them at an early age since I have an advanced degree in applied mathematics. My 3rd grader can do simple algebra and my kindergartener can do 2nd grade math. My 3rd grader is doing AOPS on the side now. They watched a lot of educational videos with me very early on mostly discovery and history programs, and developed a wide range of interests.
My older boy was bored in class, but I did not say it, I simply pointed out that he use the first 10 mins to complete all the work, and spend the rest of the time waiting, and was denied of extra worksheets. He had invention ideas, he explained what the inventions are, who will use the invention, how the invention will work, and how it will benefit humanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He did not prep at home other than the 1 week of prep that the general ed teachers did in class for NNAT and CoGAT, and was able to achieve 160NNAT, 144Cogat, 154 WISC (no prep at all), He’s WISC was in the 99.9%, he got into Davidson Institute before was accepted to AAP. So for people who said these scores are impossible to achieve without prep, it’s not true. He did 4th grade Singapore math at home and AOPS on the side, I used those works samples, and he writes short stories and had crazy invention ideas that he wrote down, we used those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He had 160 NNAT, 144Cogat, wasn’t admitted first round due to a rough relationship with the teacher…. Got in on appeal with the WISC score and appeal letter explaining the gifted behaviors and how he fits to a T (many quotes from Davidson Institute) and on how the county can better serve these kids…. Of course above grade work samples…. And these score are not hard to achieve even without prep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child got 154 WISC without any prep. All family members score above 140 on official IQ tests. Never thought my kid is gifted till the scores came in, and till he started to complain about his second grade work and teacher…. He did great in class works and was able to do 4th/5th grade math. But he ended up spending 5-10 mins doing the entire class’ work, he asked for extra worksheets and was denied by the teacher, had nothing to do for the rest of the time. He took books to class then teacher complained about he was reading books in class, he got so frustrated with the teacher. Of course he started picking up teachers mistakes, that didn’t go well either…

DP. Are you the poster whose DC was admitted first round? Not sure what you're complaining about?

What kind of work samples? And what do you mean "not hard to achieve without prep"? I rarely hear people stating such scores on this board. Lots of talk of 99th percentile, but that doesn't mean a whole lot given that we are in a very educated part of the country and state.

I think when people say such scores are not possible without prep that is shorthand for 'highly unlikely without test prep or true giftedness or extreme parental nurturance' of talent'. Of course there are people who are not prepping in the test prep sort of way and getting top scores. I'm going to guess that in addition to your child having natural abilities you are very involved in fostering your child's cognitive development/IQ.

Btw, kind of crazy invention ideas? I have heard a lot of talk on this board about what to submit/not submit (including don't submit worksheets, etc.), and also a lot of paranoid talk about not saying child is bored but rather needs AAP, etc. Sounds like you went with what you thought reflected your child's ability and that worked out well.

Thanks for the details. I am a researcher so I find this all interesting. It helps people understand what these test scores mean...not in the realm of teaching-to-the-test, but clearly the result of very favorable nature + nurture. You have a PhD or Master's degree in math (or Master's?) and obviously are fostering these talents/abilities in your children (kudos to you). You probably had some (lots?) of nurturing from your own parents. I still find it astounding that your child wasn't admitted into AAP right away, but good to know the committee was moved by your appeal. (You'd think they'd already know what gifted kids need...)

I find the gifted label a bit of a misnomer as kids can be far ahead for a variety of reasons (just as they may develop the tendency to correct teachers for various reasons). Gifted implies it's all inborn, which clearly isn't the case, although it might be strategic to emphasize that for getting the services one desires. I know that's not what the thread is about, but tying it back to what people can do to get in if their child is deserving--looks like actual evidence of being far advanced isn't nearly enough. Butt kissing is for those whose kids are merely bright, whereas others might choose to craft a more complete story about giftedness to move a committee that lacks knowledge and is unduly suspicious of test scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Join the PTA!! At our school, all the AAP kids have PTA parents.

Yes this too. I'm the one that made the room mom comment earlier.

You are mixing up association with causation. This is sort of the case in our school but that’s because all the PTA parents and room parents are very actively involved in their kids lives and also have impressive academic backgrounds/interests. I think our PTA President has two terminal degrees (eg JD, MD, and PhD). So it’s probable that this person is passing on his/her genes (duh) and academic interests/exposures to the kid.

Umm. My husband and I are surgeons, we have way better uses for our time that better serve society than planning bake sales (i.e., gossiping with the other SAHMs).

I call BS on this poster fwiw.

I'd believe it. Surgeons are famous for their god complexes and thinking they are super elite because their union restricts entry into their field to prop up wages.

They played different board games at a very young age, worked on sudoku puzzles around age 3. About two grades ahead in math, I started teaching them at an early age since I have an advanced degree in applied mathematics. My 3rd grader can do simple algebra and my kindergartener can do 2nd grade math. My 3rd grader is doing AOPS on the side now. They watched a lot of educational videos with me very early on mostly discovery and history programs, and developed a wide range of interests.
My older boy was bored in class, but I did not say it, I simply pointed out that he use the first 10 mins to complete all the work, and spend the rest of the time waiting, and was denied of extra worksheets. He had invention ideas, he explained what the inventions are, who will use the invention, how the invention will work, and how it will benefit humanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He did not prep at home other than the 1 week of prep that the general ed teachers did in class for NNAT and CoGAT, and was able to achieve 160NNAT, 144Cogat, 154 WISC (no prep at all), He’s WISC was in the 99.9%, he got into Davidson Institute before was accepted to AAP. So for people who said these scores are impossible to achieve without prep, it’s not true. He did 4th grade Singapore math at home and AOPS on the side, I used those works samples, and he writes short stories and had crazy invention ideas that he wrote down, we used those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He had 160 NNAT, 144Cogat, wasn’t admitted first round due to a rough relationship with the teacher…. Got in on appeal with the WISC score and appeal letter explaining the gifted behaviors and how he fits to a T (many quotes from Davidson Institute) and on how the county can better serve these kids…. Of course above grade work samples…. And these score are not hard to achieve even without prep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child got 154 WISC without any prep. All family members score above 140 on official IQ tests. Never thought my kid is gifted till the scores came in, and till he started to complain about his second grade work and teacher…. He did great in class works and was able to do 4th/5th grade math. But he ended up spending 5-10 mins doing the entire class’ work, he asked for extra worksheets and was denied by the teacher, had nothing to do for the rest of the time. He took books to class then teacher complained about he was reading books in class, he got so frustrated with the teacher. Of course he started picking up teachers mistakes, that didn’t go well either…

DP. Are you the poster whose DC was admitted first round? Not sure what you're complaining about?

What kind of work samples? And what do you mean "not hard to achieve without prep"? I rarely hear people stating such scores on this board. Lots of talk of 99th percentile, but that doesn't mean a whole lot given that we are in a very educated part of the country and state.

I think when people say such scores are not possible without prep that is shorthand for 'highly unlikely without test prep or true giftedness or extreme parental nurturance' of talent'. Of course there are people who are not prepping in the test prep sort of way and getting top scores. I'm going to guess that in addition to your child having natural abilities you are very involved in fostering your child's cognitive development/IQ.

Btw, kind of crazy invention ideas? I have heard a lot of talk on this board about what to submit/not submit (including don't submit worksheets, etc.), and also a lot of paranoid talk about not saying child is bored but rather needs AAP, etc. Sounds like you went with what you thought reflected your child's ability and that worked out well.

Anonymous wrote:He did not prep at home other than the 1 week of prep that the general ed teachers did in class for NNAT and CoGAT, and was able to achieve 160NNAT, 144Cogat, 154 WISC (no prep at all), He’s WISC was in the 99.9%, he got into Davidson Institute before was accepted to AAP. So for people who said these scores are impossible to achieve without prep, it’s not true. He did 4th grade Singapore math at home and AOPS on the side, I used those works samples, and he writes short stories and had crazy invention ideas that he wrote down, we used those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He had 160 NNAT, 144Cogat, wasn’t admitted first round due to a rough relationship with the teacher…. Got in on appeal with the WISC score and appeal letter explaining the gifted behaviors and how he fits to a T (many quotes from Davidson Institute) and on how the county can better serve these kids…. Of course above grade work samples…. And these score are not hard to achieve even without prep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child got 154 WISC without any prep. All family members score above 140 on official IQ tests. Never thought my kid is gifted till the scores came in, and till he started to complain about his second grade work and teacher…. He did great in class works and was able to do 4th/5th grade math. But he ended up spending 5-10 mins doing the entire class’ work, he asked for extra worksheets and was denied by the teacher, had nothing to do for the rest of the time. He took books to class then teacher complained about he was reading books in class, he got so frustrated with the teacher. Of course he started picking up teachers mistakes, that didn’t go well either…

DP. Are you the poster whose DC was admitted first round? Not sure what you're complaining about?

What kind of work samples? And what do you mean "not hard to achieve without prep"? I rarely hear people stating such scores on this board. Lots of talk of 99th percentile, but that doesn't mean a whole lot given that we are in a very educated part of the country and state.

I think when people say such scores are not possible without prep that is shorthand for 'highly unlikely without test prep or true giftedness or extreme parental nurturance' of talent'. Of course there are people who are not prepping in the test prep sort of way and getting top scores. I'm going to guess that in addition to your child having natural abilities you are very involved in fostering your child's cognitive development/IQ.

Btw, kind of crazy invention ideas? I have heard a lot of talk on this board about what to submit/not submit (including don't submit worksheets, etc.), and also a lot of paranoid talk about not saying child is bored but rather needs AAP, etc. Sounds like you went with what you thought reflected your child's ability and that worked out well.

Google Davidson Institute for Profoundly Gifted, it’s an organization serving the profoundly gifted community. They only accept kids above 99.9 percentile, the cut off score for WISC is 145. They have tons of literature explaining what profoundly gifted children need to be successful, and how parents and school systems can better support their learning, emotional, and social needs. Profoundly gifted kids don’t simply absorb knowledge, they like to dissect what the teacher say if the teachers were wrong they will let the teacher know, or come up with easier solving method and proudly explain it to the rest of the class, which can make general ed teachers very uncomfortable. And no the corrections are not from the parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He does AOPS on the side. And does Davidson Institute activities. Public school education is not enough for him. With the AAP environment at least he’s not afraid to say what’s on his mind especially telling teachers that they are wrong, his current teacher is much more open to kid’s opinions and what they think instead of pushing ideas into the kids’ heads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Be ready to write a good appeal letter, and read up on all the literature on giftedness. The GBRS is very subjective, especially if you have a truly gifted child (they pick up on teachers’ mistakes all the time and tends to give their opinions in the middle of lectures, yes I got emails from his 2nd grade teacher complaining about that). My child had 160 NNAT, 144 CoGAT, still had to do an appeal, with an 154 WISC and a good appeal letter to explain what truly gifted is they couldn’t deny him. He’s doing great now in the AAP center, and loves him new teacher, no more frustrations with the teacher in class.

Serious question: How can your child be happy in AAP if they are so truly gifted? Isn't AAP full of kids who are merely bright and helpful?

I also wonder why being liked or disliked by one's teacher matters so much. I mean, what does that have to do with the day-to-day experience in AAP vs gen ed?

Interesting and all good to know. What giftedness literature did you read up on? It's kind of insane to me that a truly gifted kid would have such a hard time getting into the program. Did you prep your child for NNAT, CogAT, etc? Curious if part of the correcting the teacher habit comes from being corrected by parents.