Anonymous
09/05/2023 17:16
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Scandinavians have amazing social services. They don't worry about healthcare, retirement or college costs.
That is because of the homogenous society - shared values, shared culture, everyone pays into the system.
A country cannot have these nice things if there is unlimited illegal immigration, people that do not pay into the system and divergent cultures.
I know that vexes a lot of progressives, but there a lot to be said about homogeneity.
It’s not homogeneity, it’s egalitarianism. A society where everyone, regardless of race, has equal access to education, housing, healthcare, etc… is a happier society. It has nothing to do with race or immigrants. I know that’s hard for Americans to understand. We are so used to associating poverty with brown/black skin color. But it’s the systemic racism in this country that leads to inequality, poverty, crime, etc…
This sounds good on paper, but has no bearing in the real world. America elected a black man president, not Sweden, not Denmark, not Norway.
When Sweden had their homogeneous society threatened by a wave of black and brown immigrants they went far right:
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/14/sweden-s-right-wing-announces-new-government-with-far-right-backing_6000299_143.html
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
20% of their population is foreign born and 26% is either foreign born or the child of two foreign born parents in Sweden.
They have long been other than homogeneous.
So 80% of the people are Swedish and a good portion of the rest are white people of some sort, correct?
You’re not making the point that you think you’re making.
"White people of some sort." The concept of who is "white" is so malleable though. Some people think Italians are white for example. I guarantee my great grandfather would be amused by that. But I think he'd get cranky if he knew that people these days mostly regard Catholics and Mormons as Christians.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 17:14
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
Is that because of racism?
Call it what you want but I will help my tribe before foreigners
I'm an educated suburban white dude. I regard black people and immigrants, legal or illegal, as more of "my tribe" than rural white Trump supporters who seem to actively hate me and people like me. They have a delusional belief in an America that never was which makes them despise "elitists" like me who don't subscribe to their various mythologies.
I’m sure a lot of these black and brown people you probably don’t live near and probably interact with infrequently don’t view you as part of their tribe though. You’re just another privileged, naive white dude.
I'm probably on my own to be sure. I said "more of my tribe." It's relative. I get the sense that rural white Trump types actively despise elitists who live in urban areas, eat foreign foods, and read books and whatnot. I get the sense that people of color don't necessarily hate me but that they'd be real happy if people like me would just leave them alone.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 17:05
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
Is that because of racism?
Call it what you want but I will help my tribe before foreigners
I'm an educated suburban white dude. I regard black people and immigrants, legal or illegal, as more of "my tribe" than rural white Trump supporters who seem to actively hate me and people like me. They have a delusional belief in an America that never was which makes them despise "elitists" like me who don't subscribe to their various mythologies.
I’m sure a lot of these black and brown people you probably don’t live near and probably interact with infrequently don’t view you as part of their tribe though. You’re just another privileged, naive white dude.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 17:01
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Scandinavians have amazing social services. They don't worry about healthcare, retirement or college costs.
That is because of the homogenous society - shared values, shared culture, everyone pays into the system.
A country cannot have these nice things if there is unlimited illegal immigration, people that do not pay into the system and divergent cultures.
I know that vexes a lot of progressives, but there a lot to be said about homogeneity.
It’s not homogeneity, it’s egalitarianism. A society where everyone, regardless of race, has equal access to education, housing, healthcare, etc… is a happier society. It has nothing to do with race or immigrants. I know that’s hard for Americans to understand. We are so used to associating poverty with brown/black skin color. But it’s the systemic racism in this country that leads to inequality, poverty, crime, etc…
This sounds good on paper, but has no bearing in the real world. America elected a black man president, not Sweden, not Denmark, not Norway.
When Sweden had their homogeneous society threatened by a wave of black and brown immigrants they went far right:
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/14/sweden-s-right-wing-announces-new-government-with-far-right-backing_6000299_143.html
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
20% of their population is foreign born and 26% is either foreign born or the child of two foreign born parents in Sweden.
They have long been other than homogeneous.
So 80% of the people are Swedish and a good portion of the rest are white people of some sort, correct?
You’re not making the point that you think you’re making.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 16:25
Subject: Re:Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really don't think this is a difficult analysis. A strong social safety net including universal healthcare and a guaranteed pension, plus strong worker's rights including guaranteed sick leave, vacation leave, parental leave, etc. And generally high government standards against corruption couple with a belief that government is in existence to work for the people.
Homogeneity definitely helps, but the issue with immigrants isn't just that they look different. It's that many of them don't want to assimilate and embrace the culture of their adopted country.
It's funny how Americans are so quick to jump to "they don't want to assimilate and embrace the culture of their adopted country" while forgetting that they probably have an immigrant Italian nonna who came to America at 20 years old yet went to the grave at 80 still barely speaking a lick of English. They forget that in the 1920s most of the major cities in America had newspapers that were published in German, or Italian, or Polish, or a number of other languages, reflecting the language and culture of the immigrants. Assimilation doesn't happen overnight. It didn't for your own ancestors, either.
Not really. Very few immigrants in the early 20th century failed to learn at least spoken English. Relatively few passed their native tongue to the next generation.
This is so crazy wrong!I’m a descendant of primarily Norwegian and German ancestors and I live in the upper Midwest. Norwegian language newspapers lived on into the 1960s in some areas (Decorah, Iowa represent). White immigrants ghettoized themselves if they weren’t ghettoized by others and their kids learned the language, too. My grandpa and his siblings were all born here to German immigrants and they all spoke fluent German.
My Norwegian great-grandmother emigrated to Minnesota at age 14 and barely spoke any English when she died in her 90s. Her family left Norway because they were desperately poor, and it was a class-based society where there could be no upward mobility and no opportunity. Norway's wealth is very new, and it is because they have oil. That's it. Norway invests profits from its oil and gas industry into a sovereign wealth fund, and the returns on those investments account for about 20% of its government's budget. Americans would never accept this because apparently we think our natural resources belong to whoever has the money and resources to extract them, and not as resources that belong to us all and to the generations that follow.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 16:06
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
Is that because of racism?
Call it what you want but I will help my tribe before foreigners
I'm an educated suburban white dude. I regard black people and immigrants, legal or illegal, as more of "my tribe" than rural white Trump supporters who seem to actively hate me and people like me. They have a delusional belief in an America that never was which makes them despise "elitists" like me who don't subscribe to their various mythologies.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 14:11
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Scandinavians have amazing social services. They don't worry about healthcare, retirement or college costs.
That is because of the homogenous society - shared values, shared culture, everyone pays into the system.
A country cannot have these nice things if there is unlimited illegal immigration, people that do not pay into the system and divergent cultures.
I know that vexes a lot of progressives, but there a lot to be said about homogeneity.
It’s not homogeneity, it’s egalitarianism. A society where everyone, regardless of race, has equal access to education, housing, healthcare, etc… is a happier society. It has nothing to do with race or immigrants. I know that’s hard for Americans to understand. We are so used to associating poverty with brown/black skin color. But it’s the systemic racism in this country that leads to inequality, poverty, crime, etc…
This sounds good on paper, but has no bearing in the real world. America elected a black man president, not Sweden, not Denmark, not Norway.
When Sweden had their homogeneous society threatened by a wave of black and brown immigrants they went far right:
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/14/sweden-s-right-wing-announces-new-government-with-far-right-backing_6000299_143.html
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
20% of their population is foreign born and 26% is either foreign born or the child of two foreign born parents in Sweden.
They have long been other than homogeneous.
So 75% is a pretty solidly Swedish ethnic block. The white population is the U.S. is very ethnically diverse, unlike Sweden white population.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 14:03
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Scandinavians have amazing social services. They don't worry about healthcare, retirement or college costs.
That is because of the homogenous society - shared values, shared culture, everyone pays into the system.
A country cannot have these nice things if there is unlimited illegal immigration, people that do not pay into the system and divergent cultures.
I know that vexes a lot of progressives, but there a lot to be said about homogeneity.
It’s not homogeneity, it’s egalitarianism. A society where everyone, regardless of race, has equal access to education, housing, healthcare, etc… is a happier society. It has nothing to do with race or immigrants. I know that’s hard for Americans to understand. We are so used to associating poverty with brown/black skin color. But it’s the systemic racism in this country that leads to inequality, poverty, crime, etc…
This sounds good on paper, but has no bearing in the real world. America elected a black man president, not Sweden, not Denmark, not Norway.
When Sweden had their homogeneous society threatened by a wave of black and brown immigrants they went far right:
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/14/sweden-s-right-wing-announces-new-government-with-far-right-backing_6000299_143.html
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
20% of their population is foreign born and 26% is either foreign born or the child of two foreign born parents in Sweden.
They have long been other than homogeneous.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 13:44
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
Is that because of racism?
Call it whatever you want, but the PP is exactly right. This has been studied extensively.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 13:32
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
Is that because of racism?
Call it what you want but I will help my tribe before foreigners
Anonymous
09/05/2023 13:18
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
Is that because of racism?
Anonymous
09/05/2023 11:41
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Scandinavians have amazing social services. They don't worry about healthcare, retirement or college costs.
That is because of the homogenous society - shared values, shared culture, everyone pays into the system.
A country cannot have these nice things if there is unlimited illegal immigration, people that do not pay into the system and divergent cultures.
I know that vexes a lot of progressives, but there a lot to be said about homogeneity.
It’s not homogeneity, it’s egalitarianism. A society where everyone, regardless of race, has equal access to education, housing, healthcare, etc… is a happier society. It has nothing to do with race or immigrants. I know that’s hard for Americans to understand. We are so used to associating poverty with brown/black skin color. But it’s the systemic racism in this country that leads to inequality, poverty, crime, etc…
This sounds good on paper, but has no bearing in the real world. America elected a black man president, not Sweden, not Denmark, not Norway.
When Sweden had their homogeneous society threatened by a wave of black and brown immigrants they went far right:
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2022/10/14/sweden-s-right-wing-announces-new-government-with-far-right-backing_6000299_143.html
Their socialist policies are only accepted by their populace because of their country’s homogeneous population, not in spite of it.
Anonymous
09/05/2023 11:30
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen this debate on here before. Mixed economies leaning more toward social democracy, such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Finland, lauded by the American left, then meeting pushback citing apparent lack of innovation, how Norway would be poor without its gas reserves, or how Sweden is making a right turn due to immigration and so on.
This all being said, various global ratings such as the Freedom House freedom index, the Human Development Index, the Global Happiness Report, World Population Review healthcare ranking, OECD Better Life index and many others, frequently place Northern European countries above the USA.
What do you think these organizations value that places these countries on top versus the US, and do you think it’s justified? Are there other global, reputable, organizations making similar country rankings that place the USA as #1 or in the top 5 for different metrics, for example, say, ease of doing business? What do you think is missing here, or does the USA really only rank as #1 in our own minds?
it is largely a white ethnostate
So, is it the racism of the white people in the U.S. that prevents us from adopting the social safety net that benefits Scandinavians? Or, in your estimation, is it something inferior about the many nonwhites in the U.S. that prevents us from adopting the beneficial social programs enjoyed by the largely white populations of the Nordic countries?
Anonymous
09/05/2023 10:59
Subject: Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:We’ve seen this debate on here before. Mixed economies leaning more toward social democracy, such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Finland, lauded by the American left, then meeting pushback citing apparent lack of innovation, how Norway would be poor without its gas reserves, or how Sweden is making a right turn due to immigration and so on.
This all being said, various global ratings such as the Freedom House freedom index, the Human Development Index, the Global Happiness Report, World Population Review healthcare ranking, OECD Better Life index and many others, frequently place Northern European countries above the USA.
What do you think these organizations value that places these countries on top versus the US, and do you think it’s justified? Are there other global, reputable, organizations making similar country rankings that place the USA as #1 or in the top 5 for different metrics, for example, say, ease of doing business? What do you think is missing here, or does the USA really only rank as #1 in our own minds?
it is largely a white ethnostate
Anonymous
09/05/2023 09:34
Subject: Re:Why so many human development indices favor Scandinavian countries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Cue the racists who’ll say it’s because they are homogeneous countries. I have family in both Sweden and Finland and have traveled extensively in both. They are not as homogeneous as people think. Also, not as happy as these “studies” show.
Is there any conversation to be had without the injection of skin color? We are all god's children. Love all.
But God does not love all of his children equally. The descendants of Ham are not as beloved as the descendants of Shem and Japheth.