Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

One of the books that really did change my life was Liping Ma's "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics". She asked a short series of questions covering relatively basic math to elementary school teachers selected as being highly interested in the subject. US teachers did badly. For example, half of them couldn't divide by fractions. Only one out of twenty-six or so could come up with a mathematically correct example illustrating the concept of division by fractions, and it wasn't even a good example. This suggests to me is that these "basic math" problems are, in fact, a *lot* more difficult than us mathy people realize. And also that the math instruction of anyone who grew up in the US is not likely to have been very good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is utterly exhausting.

So, the expectation now is I need to privately enroll my child in a class BEFORE they take the class to be successful in the class?

I was pretty against Alg. 1 in 7th grade with my 6th grader, but this whole approach is so frustrating. It all mimics my kid's experience in AAP -- the teachers expect these kids to have learned whatever concepts that were being taught for the first time "before" so class is actually just a quick review and assessment. and if they haven't, it's up to the student (i.e. their parents) to fill in the gaps.

Because most of the kids have learned the concepts before. By placing your child in AAP (and I am specifically talking about math here) you are placing your child into a program that is an entire grade level above what they are meant to be learning. It’s not accelerated. It’s not deeper understanding of concepts. It it literally a straight up jump from one year to the next. Which means if you want your kid to genuinely understand what is going on, you, as a parent, HAVE to fill in those gaps of learning. Whether it is via a tutor, RSM, a parent who just also happens to be a math teacher, whatever. You have to get them caught up. Then you have two types of kids/parents: the kids who stick with intensive math enrichment and the ones who don’t. Guess who is going to get left in the dust….

And then there are parent like myself. Kid was accepted to AAP without parents knowing much about the program. I asked and asked, even on this forum, whether there is anything we need to be aware of or try to prepare before the start of third grade. No one told me what you described (and what I am painfully aware of now). Most responses, even here on dcum, we’re in lines of “just read a lot, let your kid enjoy the summer, visit a library …”

We have caught up and doing math enrichment now, but it was so confusing in third grade why teachers were only showing short videos and then immediately doing tests. DC also struggled with concepts that were not that hard, but it was not DC’s math aptitude - the pace and lack of explanation at school was the issue. Only after a full school year, some of the parents opened up, and every single one of them had their child in Kumon, RSM or AoPS since Kindergarten. We are doing the same now and DC is doing great.

Parents should be somehow made aware. It’s not like we didn’t ask teachers and fellow parents before third grade.

RSM has three levels for a reason, more kids are in the first two classes then are in the honors class. There is nothing wrong with that, the classes meet the kids where they are.

Anonymous wrote:You are quickly finding out that many parents who enrich their children do so NOT because their child is a stand-out in math. Rather by the simple act of enriching they make their kid stand out relative to other children who do not enrich.

Math is peculiar, especially when you get to Alg.2, trig, pre-calc, Calc BC, that NO matter how bright the child, that child will not KNOW the math until it is taught to them. If it is taught earlier than the normal sequence, then presto, your child is somehow "gifted' in math.

Any child with a normal intellect working OUTSIDE of school for 2-3 hours per week will have zero problems with Algebra I. Zero. It is all about the effort you want to make as a parent. Some prioritize it; others do not.

You probably already know this, but unless your kid is hooked, eg, first-generation, low-income, staying in the accelerated track is necessary for top 20 colleges, and really top 50.

Ha ha. You don't know what you're talking about.

We see plenty of attempts by non-gifted children to take enrichment classes who fail. Your "normal intellect" child will not be successful, for instance, in AoPS Algebra in 4th or 5th grade the way my gifted child was. We know this because some parents try and end up with children who
- drop out of AoPS/RSM (and go to remedial shops like Kumon/Mathnasium)
- even if they don't drop out, do not do well in those classes
- even if they manage to finish can master, at best, the braindead school Algebra courses but would fail immediately at actual problem solving

At least in our FCPS high school, they don't even allow you to drop down (or make any course changes) until the end of first quarter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

I also can't help my kids in math anymore.

But in ALL FCPS middle schools there is WIN time and if your kid is having trouble in math, they have to utilize that time. Middle school is the time kids need to learn how to get help THEMSELVES if they need it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?

You don’t have to force your kid to do anything. We don’t force our child, he asks.

DP. Whether the child is taking Algebra in 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th, they have it to take it to graduate. So yes, kids are forced to take it. Not yours, but others are.

I know people can access threads in a variety of ways so maybe you didn’t see that this topic is in the AAP forum. The discussion for this group is kids is more on do they take the class in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade. I don’t think that there is a parent whose child has been accepted into the Advanced Academic Program in their county that wouldn’t expect the kid to take up to Calculus.

A discussion of why Algebra is required for everyone would probably receive more participation in the General School Forum.

Why must AAP include all subjects to this high level? At the expense of preferred subjects that would benefit from more time to reach high level or breadth?

How many kids do you think there are who are advanced in LA and social studies and science but struggle so much with math that they don’t take Algebra?

It is far easier to enrich and excel at math than LA. You'll get the kid who is whiz bang brilliant at both, sure. But often times you'll see certain children struggle with the non-math AAP curriculum.

You are quickly finding out that many parents who enrich their children do so NOT because their child is a stand-out in math. Rather by the simple act of enriching they make their kid stand out relative to other children who do not enrich.

Math is peculiar, especially when you get to Alg.2, trig, pre-calc, Calc BC, that NO matter how bright the child, that child will not KNOW the math until it is taught to them. If it is taught earlier than the normal sequence, then presto, your child is somehow "gifted' in math.

Any child with a normal intellect working OUTSIDE of school for 2-3 hours per week will have zero problems with Algebra I. Zero. It is all about the effort you want to make as a parent. Some prioritize it; others do not.

You probably already know this, but unless your kid is hooked, eg, first-generation, low-income, staying in the accelerated track is necessary for top 20 colleges, and really top 50.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?

You don’t have to force your kid to do anything. We don’t force our child, he asks.

DP. Whether the child is taking Algebra in 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th, they have it to take it to graduate. So yes, kids are forced to take it. Not yours, but others are.

I know people can access threads in a variety of ways so maybe you didn’t see that this topic is in the AAP forum. The discussion for this group is kids is more on do they take the class in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade. I don’t think that there is a parent whose child has been accepted into the Advanced Academic Program in their county that wouldn’t expect the kid to take up to Calculus.

A discussion of why Algebra is required for everyone would probably receive more participation in the General School Forum.

Why must AAP include all subjects to this high level? At the expense of preferred subjects that would benefit from more time to reach high level or breadth?

How many kids do you think there are who are advanced in LA and social studies and science but struggle so much with math that they don’t take Algebra?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?

You don’t have to force your kid to do anything. We don’t force our child, he asks.

DP. Whether the child is taking Algebra in 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th, they have it to take it to graduate. So yes, kids are forced to take it. Not yours, but others are.

I know people can access threads in a variety of ways so maybe you didn’t see that this topic is in the AAP forum. The discussion for this group is kids is more on do they take the class in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade. I don’t think that there is a parent whose child has been accepted into the Advanced Academic Program in their county that wouldn’t expect the kid to take up to Calculus.

A discussion of why Algebra is required for everyone would probably receive more participation in the General School Forum.

Why must AAP include all subjects to this high level? At the expense of preferred subjects that would benefit from more time to reach high level or breadth?

AAP only goes through 8th grade, but is really more for 3rd-6th grade purposes IMO, and is for kids who are generally advanced in their studies across most/all subjects. This allows for a cohort of students in the ES classroom who are differentiated across subjects (some kids might be farther ahead in reading, others in math, etc... the class isn't taught as a single monolith any moreso than the GenEd classrooms are)... but in general will be at more similar levels. This also allows the GenEd classroom to handle its own in-classroom differentiation across subjects better, as there's at least one less group for that teacher to handle. It's not a perfect system, but it's better than taking the entire diversity of levels within a single grade and just tossing them together and making the teacher's job that much harder. Typically that approach would mean the advanced kids get the short end of the stick since they "doing well enough" and don't really receive adequate instruction appropriate to their level. And at the ES level, I'm not familiar with any school district that really handles that on a subject-by-subject basis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?

You don’t have to force your kid to do anything. We don’t force our child, he asks.

DP. Whether the child is taking Algebra in 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th, they have it to take it to graduate. So yes, kids are forced to take it. Not yours, but others are.

I know people can access threads in a variety of ways so maybe you didn’t see that this topic is in the AAP forum. The discussion for this group is kids is more on do they take the class in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade. I don’t think that there is a parent whose child has been accepted into the Advanced Academic Program in their county that wouldn’t expect the kid to take up to Calculus.

A discussion of why Algebra is required for everyone would probably receive more participation in the General School Forum.

Why must AAP include all subjects to this high level? At the expense of preferred subjects that would benefit from more time to reach high level or breadth?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?

You don’t have to force your kid to do anything. We don’t force our child, he asks.

DP. Whether the child is taking Algebra in 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th, they have it to take it to graduate. So yes, kids are forced to take it. Not yours, but others are.

I know people can access threads in a variety of ways so maybe you didn’t see that this topic is in the AAP forum. The discussion for this group is kids is more on do they take the class in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade. I don’t think that there is a parent whose child has been accepted into the Advanced Academic Program in their county that wouldn’t expect the kid to take up to Calculus.

A discussion of why Algebra is required for everyone would probably receive more participation in the General School Forum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?

You don’t have to force your kid to do anything. We don’t force our child, he asks.

DP. Whether the child is taking Algebra in 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th, they have it to take it to graduate. So yes, kids are forced to take it. Not yours, but others are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?

You don’t have to force your kid to do anything. We don’t force our child, he asks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's really quite early for your son to feel so overwhelmed by math. The beginning stuff should be review. Have you sat down with him and gone over the material they have covered, to see what exactly is bothering him?

OP here - DC got very frustrated with homework and got most of the problems wrong. This has not been the case in the past. MS itself has been a bit of a transition, so this has just compounded it. Unfortunately, I can’t really help as this level of math is many years behind me in memory. The teacher is being supportive and believes they are in the right place and urged patience.

Sorry if this is awkward.. but I have to wonder how is it possible that an adult cannot really help due to the math being "many years beyond"? They haven't started doing any remotely complicated algebra, and are likely doing basic word problems with variables, which should be... solvable for adults with common sense. Genuinely curious as to what topics and problems are assigned that it is beyond you and your child, because something doesn't make sense here. If you can give specific examples, we can help point you in the right direction in terms of what you or your child should study and/or how they should think about the problems.

Are you kidding??? I have an undergraduate and professional degrees from Ivy League schools but I could not help at all once my kids were in 7th grade. I haven’t done any math since first year of college and I remember nothing, truly nothing.

Why do we force all our kids to do all this useless math?