Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:39. The world does not work that way. We all do things that affect others. Our job is not to keep affirming you every time you make a mistake or are mean because you can’t handle your emotions. People aren’t here just to help you through all your messes. They have their own lives and expectations. You need to simplify your life and take responsibility and pump yourself up. If you do that you will have less problems and better interactions with yourself and others.

That’s what I am saying. I don’t expect you or anyone to do anything. It’s on me. Accepting that, though, is painful. Deeply, intensely painful.

Most people trying to help just aren’t because you aren’t seeing or listening to the efforts that are being made. And you’re reinforcing a message that the person struggling isn’t good enough and that no matter what it won’t be enough.

It’s OK to walk away. Sometimes it’s the most compassionate way to help.

People who have expectations you aren’t meeting are simply stating them and helping you understand the expectations of the world. It is not less kind than walking away. It’s so you don’t keep butting up against them. It’s on you to take agency to understand them and avoid problems. It’s a morally wrong path to keep justifying bad behavior because you feel bad about yourself. It’s ok to be ok with your mistakes but in a way that you minimize that mistake in the future. Many people end up in jail from these justifications. Acceptance and growth. You need to accept your limitations and work towards them growing where you can but also minimizing problems. Stop worrying about whether other people are helping or hurting. Stop judging them. Take what they give you and use it to the best of your ability. You can’t control how others help you or talk to you. You can only control what you do.

If they end up in jail, maybe that’s on them.

At some point, you are not helping you are trying to control another person with your expectations. Or you are enabling that person to expect support when they need to experience the consequences and pain in order to actually learn for themselves.

Im not sure what situations are in your life that are motivating you to respond to me. We ultimately agree, but I’m coming from someone who lives with this pain every day and has engaged in bad behavior, who is working every day to take responsibility.

I am saying that it wasn’t until people actually stopped trying to help so much that I actually could actually start taking responsibility to help myself.

If you are still blaming people for pointing you in a better direction or assisting you, than this should be your next recovery step to get over why you blame them for simply helping you.

And as an example, if you are the mentally ill spouse perhaps addicted or whatever and your spouse "points out your faults" or "helps you" and you wish they would just let you fail, how is that having any understanding of their perspective? They are married to you. They have kids. They want to help which they agreed to when they married you. Same for parents. They are responsible for you and of course want to help their children. It is not their role to just move on and that would completely upend their life. There is nothing wrong with pointing out how someone is traveling in the wrong direction out of care or helping them be a better person. You obviously need to take responsibility for why you push blame onto the people who have tried to help you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:39. The world does not work that way. We all do things that affect others. Our job is not to keep affirming you every time you make a mistake or are mean because you can’t handle your emotions. People aren’t here just to help you through all your messes. They have their own lives and expectations. You need to simplify your life and take responsibility and pump yourself up. If you do that you will have less problems and better interactions with yourself and others.

That’s what I am saying. I don’t expect you or anyone to do anything. It’s on me. Accepting that, though, is painful. Deeply, intensely painful.

Most people trying to help just aren’t because you aren’t seeing or listening to the efforts that are being made. And you’re reinforcing a message that the person struggling isn’t good enough and that no matter what it won’t be enough.

It’s OK to walk away. Sometimes it’s the most compassionate way to help.

People who have expectations you aren’t meeting are simply stating them and helping you understand the expectations of the world. It is not less kind than walking away. It’s so you don’t keep butting up against them. It’s on you to take agency to understand them and avoid problems. It’s a morally wrong path to keep justifying bad behavior because you feel bad about yourself. It’s ok to be ok with your mistakes but in a way that you minimize that mistake in the future. Many people end up in jail from these justifications. Acceptance and growth. You need to accept your limitations and work towards them growing where you can but also minimizing problems. Stop worrying about whether other people are helping or hurting. Stop judging them. Take what they give you and use it to the best of your ability. You can’t control how others help you or talk to you. You can only control what you do.

If they end up in jail, maybe that’s on them.

At some point, you are not helping you are trying to control another person with your expectations. Or you are enabling that person to expect support when they need to experience the consequences and pain in order to actually learn for themselves.

Im not sure what situations are in your life that are motivating you to respond to me. We ultimately agree, but I’m coming from someone who lives with this pain every day and has engaged in bad behavior, who is working every day to take responsibility.

I am saying that it wasn’t until people actually stopped trying to help so much that I actually could actually start taking responsibility to help myself.

If you are still blaming people for pointing you in a better direction or assisting you, than this should be your next recovery step to get over why you blame them for simply helping you.

Would you all talk about your partners this way if their illness was physical rather than mental? Is having a “bad day” acceptable when dealing with a chronic physical ailment? Or would it still be all about you?

And some of you seem to be under the impression that therapy is some magic cure. It is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse has major depressive disorder and anxiety. She also has outearns me x3 (she private, me public sector). I'm DH. I do about 98% of the household management, all the child logistics (get up early, pack lunches, drop off and pick up, manage schedules,etc.) and all the cooking, cleaning, maintenance, straightening up, etc. (while also managing a full-time not-so-unstressful executive role in my own right). Spouse gets regularly rattled by work stuff and then is in siege mentality (everyone is against me!) and while she mostly exempts our kids from the wrath, I get it all. It's like I'm the punching bag that is safe. Tiny things become major crises (e.g. she starts talking and then lowers her voice as she walks down the hall and I say, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear that last part" and this, in her view, is due to me (no one!) listening to her, not the physical fact of walking away and lower volume while saying something). We have very little intimacy or companionship left, as she bottles it all up. Try to make friends and there is always something wrong with them. I won't/can't leave it because of our kids, but it's devastatingly depressing to think this is my life for the next 20 years. I saw all the signs but chose against them because they started to improve a decade ago, but then childbirth brought them all back and worse, Wouldn't trade it due to the amazing kids, but it's not fun on the whole (we do have lovely times and some fun mixed in, but it always feels like it's going to fall apart, because it does). And, jobwise, she's been in a mix of higher and lower stress environments and it's all the same--she's been an emotional and depressive mess in all of the environments. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. There's so much pain in some people's lives and most people don't have a clue.

Thank you for sharing your experience. My son started seeing a woman who is struggling with the same things as your wife, on top of other diagnoses. He likes her a lot, and she him, but I can't help but think what happens if they take it further and get married, have kids, etc. She can be very hot/cold towards him, and he spends a lot of time navigating around her struggles. I'm sorry that you're dealing with this as well, and I fully agree with you on not knowing what's going on with people's lives behind closed doors. He wouldn't have known unless she straight out spilled the beans.

I hope your son gets out and doesn’t marry her.

Thank you. He intellectually understands that, but he's still emotionally extremely attached to her and says have great chemistry; however even his friends have pointed out the red flags to him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:39. The world does not work that way. We all do things that affect others. Our job is not to keep affirming you every time you make a mistake or are mean because you can’t handle your emotions. People aren’t here just to help you through all your messes. They have their own lives and expectations. You need to simplify your life and take responsibility and pump yourself up. If you do that you will have less problems and better interactions with yourself and others.

That’s what I am saying. I don’t expect you or anyone to do anything. It’s on me. Accepting that, though, is painful. Deeply, intensely painful.

Most people trying to help just aren’t because you aren’t seeing or listening to the efforts that are being made. And you’re reinforcing a message that the person struggling isn’t good enough and that no matter what it won’t be enough.

It’s OK to walk away. Sometimes it’s the most compassionate way to help.

People who have expectations you aren’t meeting are simply stating them and helping you understand the expectations of the world. It is not less kind than walking away. It’s so you don’t keep butting up against them. It’s on you to take agency to understand them and avoid problems. It’s a morally wrong path to keep justifying bad behavior because you feel bad about yourself. It’s ok to be ok with your mistakes but in a way that you minimize that mistake in the future. Many people end up in jail from these justifications. Acceptance and growth. You need to accept your limitations and work towards them growing where you can but also minimizing problems. Stop worrying about whether other people are helping or hurting. Stop judging them. Take what they give you and use it to the best of your ability. You can’t control how others help you or talk to you. You can only control what you do.

If they end up in jail, maybe that’s on them.

At some point, you are not helping you are trying to control another person with your expectations. Or you are enabling that person to expect support when they need to experience the consequences and pain in order to actually learn for themselves.

Im not sure what situations are in your life that are motivating you to respond to me. We ultimately agree, but I’m coming from someone who lives with this pain every day and has engaged in bad behavior, who is working every day to take responsibility.

I am saying that it wasn’t until people actually stopped trying to help so much that I actually could actually start taking responsibility to help myself.

Wait, op, is he *loosing* clients or is a job coming to a natural end? The difference is huge. If he’s *loosing* clients, be ready for him to be less and less successful with whatever he does for work. I’d also be worried that his periods of bad behavior (and this is what it is) will get longer and longer. As I tell my kids, it’s a big fun world out there, and this is a fun time of year, why waste it.

I’m also confused as to how he can wallow in bed for a couple days.. you guess when, when he has to be at work in the morning, or he needs to be out looking for work, maybe not physically out, but able to bid on clients. Something isn’t adding up here. I’m also wondering why he is so emotionally invested in these clients. I had 2 work projects I was deeply invested in, both were successful, both still manage to make me cry with emotion. neither was more important then my family though. I think if I’d had 2 failures, I’d be looking for another line of work if I was as invested to the point I couldn’t be nice to my husband and kids.

Whatever is going on, when you’ve had enough of being treated poorly, you’ll figure it out, that’s how it always goes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:39. The world does not work that way. We all do things that affect others. Our job is not to keep affirming you every time you make a mistake or are mean because you can’t handle your emotions. People aren’t here just to help you through all your messes. They have their own lives and expectations. You need to simplify your life and take responsibility and pump yourself up. If you do that you will have less problems and better interactions with yourself and others.

That’s what I am saying. I don’t expect you or anyone to do anything. It’s on me. Accepting that, though, is painful. Deeply, intensely painful.

Most people trying to help just aren’t because you aren’t seeing or listening to the efforts that are being made. And you’re reinforcing a message that the person struggling isn’t good enough and that no matter what it won’t be enough.

It’s OK to walk away. Sometimes it’s the most compassionate way to help.

People who have expectations you aren’t meeting are simply stating them and helping you understand the expectations of the world. It is not less kind than walking away. It’s so you don’t keep butting up against them. It’s on you to take agency to understand them and avoid problems. It’s a morally wrong path to keep justifying bad behavior because you feel bad about yourself. It’s ok to be ok with your mistakes but in a way that you minimize that mistake in the future. Many people end up in jail from these justifications. Acceptance and growth. You need to accept your limitations and work towards them growing where you can but also minimizing problems. Stop worrying about whether other people are helping or hurting. Stop judging them. Take what they give you and use it to the best of your ability. You can’t control how others help you or talk to you. You can only control what you do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Have to add that outside of these 3-5 days, he is a nearly perfect parent: very organized, in charge of the kids calendars for school and activities, does most of the drop offs and pick ups, does pretty much all medical appointments, does about a third of the cooking etc. And he is the bread winner ( his salary is double mine). I see the 3-5 days off every couple of days like a much needed break. He is very good at following routines once they are established. He is not good with change ( which is what I am good at).

It does not give him the right to take all these days off, but he is great so I am very understanding as long as there is respect and a peaceful, loving environment at home.

No wonder he needs a break every few months, he is doing almost everything.

I see why you would think this way. However, it's not true. Think of everything else that is not listed there. He does a lot, but I do a lot too. I would happily switch roles, because I think I do more. I don't care either way. He does. He hates cooking, cleaning, organizing and cannot detangle their hair.

Additionally, when he started breaking down, kids were very young with no activities, and we had live in help. I did all the night feedings( he wouldn't mind if I asked, but I didn't have any problem doing them).

Our kids' activities and school are under a mile from the house so weekly drop off and pick up are close by. Drop off is 15 minutes total there and back. They leave at 8: 28 and he was back this morning by 8:40. I get them ready for school( I heat up and pack lunch, make sure hair is done and supervise them getting ready). Weekends are further away twice a month when they have games, and he does that.

I make dinner and clean up. That's at least an hour every night. When he cooks, it's usually the straightforward stuff( boil chicken, boil rice), and I almost always clean up after he cooks. I cook the meals that take longer. I do all the cleaning. He has not mopped or cleaned a bathroom, window, or any part of the house in years. I do any organization: kids bedrooms, library etc.

I spend about an hour a week detangling hair( two girls with curly hair).

Most importantly, I do whatever he does not want to do. I am the flexible parent ( except I am more junior at work after taking time off so not always able to jump in). He hates doing dishes so I do them. He hates organizing so I organize. He loves taking them to activities so he does. He stays and watches. When I drop them at practice, I come back home and do dishes and then return to pick them up.

But I am not complaining. He is a great dad.

Anonymous wrote:9:39. The world does not work that way. We all do things that affect others. Our job is not to keep affirming you every time you make a mistake or are mean because you can’t handle your emotions. People aren’t here just to help you through all your messes. They have their own lives and expectations. You need to simplify your life and take responsibility and pump yourself up. If you do that you will have less problems and better interactions with yourself and others.

That’s what I am saying. I don’t expect you or anyone to do anything. It’s on me. Accepting that, though, is painful. Deeply, intensely painful.

Most people trying to help just aren’t because you aren’t seeing or listening to the efforts that are being made. And you’re reinforcing a message that the person struggling isn’t good enough and that no matter what it won’t be enough.

It’s OK to walk away. Sometimes it’s the most compassionate way to help.

Anonymous wrote:I have a question. Is the mental illness of your spouses pretty much hidden and how do they interact with your extended family? I think this is going on with a close relative but he is very secretive. We wish he would open up so we could help in some way.

PP with mentally ill mom here. It depends on how the illness manifests and how willing the people around the mentally ill person are to humor them.

For example, my mother was the youngest of many children and her lifelong debilitating anxiety and eating disorder were basically considered personality quirks by her siblings. Other family members would step in and cover for her as she increasingly made catastrophic life decisions. But it wasn’t really until I was in my 30s that everyone acknowledged that her mental illness was severe and probably needed medical intervention, but she declines because she is not “crazy.”

9:39. The world does not work that way. We all do things that affect others. Our job is not to keep affirming you every time you make a mistake or are mean because you can’t handle your emotions. People aren’t here just to help you through all your messes. They have their own lives and expectations. You need to simplify your life and take responsibility and pump yourself up. If you do that you will have less problems and better interactions with yourself and others.

Anonymous wrote:I have a question. Is the mental illness of your spouses pretty much hidden and how do they interact with your extended family? I think this is going on with a close relative but he is very secretive. We wish he would open up so we could help in some way.

As someone who struggles to engage sometimes, just let them know you love and accept them as they are.

My issues with mental health all stem from years is undiagnosed ADHD and the anxiety that built up living is a world with expectations I continually failed to meet.

Now I have better understanding of myself I can better manage. However, there’s no amount of drugs, therapy, exercise that will make conforming to typical easy and I have to let go of the expectation that it will.

It’s a painful, lonely process coming to that realisation. The only thing that helps is when a loved one sees the effort I am making and encourages me to take the next step.

Anonymous wrote:I have a question. Is the mental illness of your spouses pretty much hidden and how do they interact with your extended family? I think this is going on with a close relative but he is very secretive. We wish he would open up so we could help in some way.

DP here. In MIL and DH's case, they are extremely nice to outsiders (ie: not immediate family), but in the immediate family, there is a pecking order or target, that they feel okay to beat up on - sort of a rank and file, is how I would describe it. MIL and DH are HFA, with anger issues. They become very manipulative, such that you can not ask certain questions, and you have to dance around certain realities. MIL taught her DC that to show emotion was "complaining", so of course, there are long term ramifications.

A friend once noticed the way my husband didn’t interact and pinned it autism but I didn’t know what that was. I thought he was just a bit shy around groups. When I grew up many people were just talked about as shy and I was told a lot of men are introverted so it made sense in a large group he wouldn’t be that extraverted. His family were very friendly to me for the first few years till it became obvious some of their children had mental illnesses that they would just write off and not treat. Eventually the mentally ill kids stopped showing up at family gatherings and it was just the kids without major issues and mine. Then dinner conversation’s became about nothing. Hours of just sitting around saying nothing and if they did talk it was always about happy memories from the past. They would just repeat the same conversations and make them slightly different. Never anything happy in the current situation. Never about their own kids or their jobs or anything about daily life. More lies whenever they were asked about their lives. I found out one of the sisters had a best friend who was in and out of jail and wasn’t coherent half the time. But all this transpired over about a 12 year period. When the kids were young up to about age 7 everyone could just shift to the kids and talk about how cute they were and we were busy with them so it wasn’t as noticeable. It was only noticed when the kids would go off and do their own thing and the adults stuck around the table. I would see how his family reacted and how he reacted and it was obvious something was off.

I have a question. Is the mental illness of your spouses pretty much hidden and how do they interact with your extended family? I think this is going on with a close relative but he is very secretive. We wish he would open up so we could help in some way.