Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that OP is raising a mean girl and is perfectly okay with excluding behaviors. OP just isn’t okay with the behavior being directed at her. Ah, sweet irony. Here’s thing that OP should recognize - this drama wouldn’t have any juice among her friend group if they didn’t think her DD was a mean girl. If her DD (and mother) were perfectly sweet, people would be defending her or trying not to get involved.

I read the OP (+ the follow ups) and I don’t get the mean girl read at all. It’s not clear at all. I bet you were low on the social totem pole as a teen and that’s coloring your read.

Anonymous wrote:You're wrong, your daughter was wrong, the other girl was wrong, and the other girl's mother was wrong.

You should be encouraging your DD to be friends with people who have different interests from her and aren't only just like her.

Your daughter needs to learn tact and to be kind in rejection.

The other girl needs a backbone and shouldn't be so upset by a tactless rejection (no, you're boring) that she needs to leave school early.

The other girl's mom needs to encourage her daughter to have a backbone and needs to stop gossiping.

We've always encouraged our daughter to have multiple friend groups, and to lean in more with friends when things are going well, and to lean away from friend groups when there are issues and hurt feelings. I do miss seeing some of the parents on a regular basis, but we are always meeting new parents. Sometimes they merge again, and sometimes they do not.

It’s clear that OP is raising a mean girl and is perfectly okay with excluding behaviors. OP just isn’t okay with the behavior being directed at her. Ah, sweet irony. Here’s thing that OP should recognize - this drama wouldn’t have any juice among her friend group if they didn’t think her DD was a mean girl. If her DD (and mother) were perfectly sweet, people would be defending her or trying not to get involved.

Anonymous wrote:I find this story crazy. In particular, the hate on OP. And I'm the parent of a special needs, socially awkward kid who is often on the receiving end of social stigma.

OP's daughter did not engage in bullying. It sounds like she engaged in one sh*tty text correspondence. For all the people saying that OP's daughter totally sucks for this.... wow, you all must have been perfect teenagers, because despite being popular as a kid, I handled like 80% of my social interactions with less than perfection. Because I was a kid, navigating new territory. Absolutely, OP should speak to her daughter, express disappointment and talk about how this should have been handled. But OP's daughter should not be labeled a mean girl for one screw up.

Also, this world of "girl moms" is bizarre to me, as the parent of boys. But my neighbor is in the same world. 15 year old girls, friends since preschool. The bizarre thing to me is that the moms all seem to have been living vicariously through their daughters. Like, my neighbor's weekend plans are "Larla is going to the mall with their friends" -- which, without it being spoken, means my neighbor also goes along with, and she and the moms and all the tween/teen girls all hang out at the mall, go shopping, go to Starbucks, etc etc. And then Friday night Larla is going to her friends house, which means my neighbor is going to hang out too. Maybe at age 10 this made sense, but this is still happening at age 15. So just like the OP, some drama went down, one mom got pissed, etc etc, and I'm listening to my neighbor tell me this story and can't believe grown women are wrapped up in this.

+1

You have no idea! Some moms really want their kid to be in with certain other kids. For example, you will ask about their kid's plans, and the mom will literally first spout that other kid's name, as if the other kid is in her family. It is lunacy. OP, back away slowly, you will be glad you did. You really do not want to be around that kind of toxicity, and you definitely do not want your kids around that group, especially in high school.

I think the issues need to be separated. Your dd can choose her own friends, and it is perfectly normal to grow apart from grade school, to MS, to HS. Happens in every neighborhood/ friend group. You simply need to reiterate to dd that she still needs to be kind to others even when saying no or going her own way.

The mom friendship should be discussed between the moms. If you truly like the other mom then you have a coffee and admit your child could have been kinder to her dd. Your admit your dd is still maturing but you expected better of her, and you have discussed her behavior going forward.

You then tell the mom you value her friendship ( if true) and would like to continue one but without the dds.

This happened to me! It was my dd being bullied. The other mother saw it, heard it, admitted it. She felt terrible. Fast forward, The dds had completely separate friend groups by hs.

We stayed friends as parents but had less interaction for a number of years because all busy with our kids new activities. Our paths would cross at neighborhood functions, random things, and we always tried to catch-up.

Fast forward to college years, the dds are all lovely adults, polite when they meet. We like the mature adult girl very much, and we spend most of our couple time with that family now that we are empty nesters.

One example but if handled honestly and maturely by the parents, it can work.

So OP’s cool daughter excludes artsy girl and that’s ok, but OP is bent because artsy girl’s mom want to…exclude OP? Do I have that right?

I find this story crazy. In particular, the hate on OP. And I'm the parent of a special needs, socially awkward kid who is often on the receiving end of social stigma.

OP's daughter did not engage in bullying. It sounds like she engaged in one sh*tty text correspondence. For all the people saying that OP's daughter totally sucks for this.... wow, you all must have been perfect teenagers, because despite being popular as a kid, I handled like 80% of my social interactions with less than perfection. Because I was a kid, navigating new territory. Absolutely, OP should speak to her daughter, express disappointment and talk about how this should have been handled. But OP's daughter should not be labeled a mean girl for one screw up.

Also, this world of "girl moms" is bizarre to me, as the parent of boys. But my neighbor is in the same world. 15 year old girls, friends since preschool. The bizarre thing to me is that the moms all seem to have been living vicariously through their daughters. Like, my neighbor's weekend plans are "Larla is going to the mall with their friends" -- which, without it being spoken, means my neighbor also goes along with, and she and the moms and all the tween/teen girls all hang out at the mall, go shopping, go to Starbucks, etc etc. And then Friday night Larla is going to her friends house, which means my neighbor is going to hang out too. Maybe at age 10 this made sense, but this is still happening at age 15. So just like the OP, some drama went down, one mom got pissed, etc etc, and I'm listening to my neighbor tell me this story and can't believe grown women are wrapped up in this.

Anonymous wrote:You're wrong, your daughter was wrong, the other girl was wrong, and the other girl's mother was wrong.

You should be encouraging your DD to be friends with people who have different interests from her and aren't only just like her.

Your daughter needs to learn tact and to be kind in rejection.

The other girl needs a backbone and shouldn't be so upset by a tactless rejection (no, you're boring) that she needs to leave school early.

The other girl's mom needs to encourage her daughter to have a backbone and needs to stop gossiping.

I love the energy of this post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been tight with about six other moms since Kindergarten. Our girls have always been close. Moms genuinely close too. But I know it's always a danger to meet through kids - though I thought our friendship transcended this. I was maybe naive.

My DD has begun pulling away from one of the girls in the group. It is not personal. They have different interests. However, my DD is seen as a "cool" girl because she is sporty, and the other girl is more artsy and creative. Well apparently, there was a text spat between the girls - or some kind of misunderstanding - where the former friend wanted to hang out with DD and her new friends and my DD said no. The girl became incredibly upset, left school early, came come in tears, and the mom -- my friend -- got mad at me for allowing my DD to "drop" and bully her child.

I saw the texts and immediately talked to my own DD. My DD should have and could have been kinder in declining hanging out. But she wasn't bullying. She was excluding. But they just don't have anything in common and she does not really like this girl. But now the other mom is asking our friends to pick sides, complaining about my DD to our mutual friends, and wants to invite me to drinks to discuss what to do going into the new year.

I just feel sick over this whole thing and have zero desire to get involved in my child's social life in this way. I also do not want to raise a mean girl, but I think my kid should be able to drift from friends as a relationship ages out without repercussions. Anyone BTDT? I do still like the mother but this is putting a strain on our longtime circle.

You already did.

Genuinely curious: How so? Are people supposed to meet in K and remain friends for life?

OP said her daughter was being exclusionary, and unkind in the process. OP also attributes the separation between the girls and the resulting exclusion to her daughter being more "cool" than the artsy girl (what kind of a 90's movie are we in, btw?). So her daughter is unkindly excluding people for not being cool according to the standard at their particular school - that's pretty much the definition of a mean girl.

Of course OP also says "it's nothing personal" and then a few lines later says her daughter doesn't like the girl. She's all over the place.

+1

No, it is to illustrate why the other mom might be defensive - one kid is "cool" etc. It's a dynamic most people can relate to, a shorthand to explain the situation - cool friend moves on from fringe friend, mom gets hurt, how does other mom handle it.

I don't think "other mom" got hurt by the cool friend moving on. I think it's because her kid came home early from school in tears because the "cool kid" was mean to her and socially excluding her. "Cool mom" seems really hung up on pointing out how her kid's meanness doesn't meet the technical definition of bullying when it comes to this alternative, fringe kid who shouldn't really expect to be included or even treated kindly by someone she's known for years, but somehow that doesn't feel like A-1 parenting to me. But hey, I'm not campaigning for homecoming queen on behalf of my daughter, what do I know.

+1

Unfortunately this is common these days.

Oh, good lord, people. Friend rifts happen and it is not necessarily a reflection on the moms and how they raised their children. Yes, girls should be kinder to one another, but hormones are freely flowing and anxiety is high. OP, is your child in or approaching middle school? If so, this is prime time rift time for girls. PRIME. All the friend groups break up. It's unfortunate that the other mom is making this about you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been tight with about six other moms since Kindergarten. Our girls have always been close. Moms genuinely close too. But I know it's always a danger to meet through kids - though I thought our friendship transcended this. I was maybe naive.

My DD has begun pulling away from one of the girls in the group. It is not personal. They have different interests. However, my DD is seen as a "cool" girl because she is sporty, and the other girl is more artsy and creative. Well apparently, there was a text spat between the girls - or some kind of misunderstanding - where the former friend wanted to hang out with DD and her new friends and my DD said no. The girl became incredibly upset, left school early, came come in tears, and the mom -- my friend -- got mad at me for allowing my DD to "drop" and bully her child.

I saw the texts and immediately talked to my own DD. My DD should have and could have been kinder in declining hanging out. But she wasn't bullying. She was excluding. But they just don't have anything in common and she does not really like this girl. But now the other mom is asking our friends to pick sides, complaining about my DD to our mutual friends, and wants to invite me to drinks to discuss what to do going into the new year.

I just feel sick over this whole thing and have zero desire to get involved in my child's social life in this way. I also do not want to raise a mean girl, but I think my kid should be able to drift from friends as a relationship ages out without repercussions. Anyone BTDT? I do still like the mother but this is putting a strain on our longtime circle.

You already did.

Genuinely curious: How so? Are people supposed to meet in K and remain friends for life?

OP said her daughter was being exclusionary, and unkind in the process. OP also attributes the separation between the girls and the resulting exclusion to her daughter being more "cool" than the artsy girl (what kind of a 90's movie are we in, btw?). So her daughter is unkindly excluding people for not being cool according to the standard at their particular school - that's pretty much the definition of a mean girl.

Of course OP also says "it's nothing personal" and then a few lines later says her daughter doesn't like the girl. She's all over the place.

Exclusionary = being a mean girl.
Mom saying it’s ok to be exclusionary = mom is ok with raising a mean girl

Anonymous wrote:A lot to unpack here but what type of example are you setting for your daughter?

If she was mean to the other girl and purposely exclusionary just because she's weird/wears glasses/braces/whatever silly reason she needs to apologize.

100% Excluding IS part of bullying and abuse. Your daughter needs to learn compassion and grace. You need to each it to her.

Anonymous wrote:Here’s my problem with OP and her first post.

In describing what happened, she threw in this sentence:

“However, my DD is seen as a ‘cool’ girl because she is sporty, and the other girl is more artsy and creative.”

It was completely unnecessary to do that. Has she not included that sentence, this is how that same paragraph would have read:

My DD has begun pulling away from one of the girls in the group. It is not personal. They have different interests. Well apparently, there was a text spat between the girls - or some kind of misunderstanding - where the former friend wanted to hang out with DD and her new friends and my DD said no. The girl became incredibly upset, left school early, came come in tears, and the mom -- my friend -- got mad at me for allowing my DD to ‘drop’ and bully her child.”

Why did OP have to share that her daughter is a “cool” girl? What does that add to the equation? Absolutely nothing.

OP has a mean girl and is proud of it. That’s what’s going on here.

NP. Completely disagree with you. The fact that one girls is more popular than the other for whatever reason (which will vary from school to school and certainly from decade to decade) is an important element to understand for anyone wanting to give OP thoughtful advice. A minor brush off can seem much more explosive than it actually is to a kid who is already struggling with her place in the middle school social hierarchy.

The distinction you’re making between excluding and bullying isn’t great. Excluding is different from not hanging out with someone. You need to step in and address the meanness. She doesn’t have to hang out with the other girl, but there are ways of doing it that are okay, and ways that are not okay.

Anonymous wrote:You are right that your daughter does not and should not have to hang out with this girl just because you are friends with her mom. However, it sounds like she is old enough to know how to decline in a polite and kind way vs. how she did. I would meet with the mom once, explain that you are disappointed with how your daughter handled it, but that the kids can't be forced to be friends, just polite and kind. I doubt it will fix the friendship with her mom, but it is still worth doing.

+1