Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 15:53     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


They still lost. Question is... for division classification next year, does her time count for 11-12 or 13-14 group?

Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 15:45     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.

We aren’t in NVSL but curiosity got the better of me so I checked out the link. My DD is an 11-12 club swimmer so I know who that swimmer is and she is phenomenal, so I get why they are strategically deploying her!
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 15:41     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


Smart use of a swimmer by whoever seeded that meet.


Not necessarily — if not for a DQ (slightly early takeoff), they would have lost the 11-12 relay by ~1.5 seconds. I know this because I was at the meet.

Based on times, they would have been expected to win the 11-12 relay with the swimmer who swam up (and, as occurred save for the DQ, would have been expected to lose the 11-12 relay without that swimmer).

So it was really an even trade — better chance at 13-14 in exchange for worse chance at 11-12.


They used the same strategy the previous week too, and won an even closer matchup in the 13-14 relay while losing the 11-12 relay by 14 seconds.

That seems like a sound strategic choice. If the 11-12s lost their relay by 14 seconds, they were going to lose the relay even with that swimmer, so might as well use that swimmer in a relay where they could help the team win and get the 1st place points.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 13:42     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


Smart use of a swimmer by whoever seeded that meet.


Not necessarily — if not for a DQ (slightly early takeoff), they would have lost the 11-12 relay by ~1.5 seconds. I know this because I was at the meet.

Based on times, they would have been expected to win the 11-12 relay with the swimmer who swam up (and, as occurred save for the DQ, would have been expected to lose the 11-12 relay without that swimmer).

So it was really an even trade — better chance at 13-14 in exchange for worse chance at 11-12.


They used the same strategy the previous week too, and won an even closer matchup in the 13-14 relay while losing the 11-12 relay by 14 seconds.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 13:36     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


Smart use of a swimmer by whoever seeded that meet.


Not necessarily — if not for a DQ (slightly early takeoff), they would have lost the 11-12 relay by ~1.5 seconds. I know this because I was at the meet.

Based on times, they would have been expected to win the 11-12 relay with the swimmer who swam up (and, as occurred save for the DQ, would have been expected to lose the 11-12 relay without that swimmer).

So it was really an even trade — better chance at 13-14 in exchange for worse chance at 11-12.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 12:53     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


If I am reading the rules correctly, that wouldn’t be considered a swim up bc that is a “mixed age” relay rather than a 13/14 designated relay. A “swim up” is when a kid swims a different age group (so an 11 year old swimming a 13/14 free, for example.).


You cannot swim up for mixed age. It is the rule.

She swam up in the 13-14 medley relay instead of the 11-12 relay.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 12:35     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


Smart use of a swimmer by whoever seeded that meet.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 12:25     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
two different events
Girls Free 200M Relay Mixed Age - OK for even an 8 y/o to swim this, although it will/should be the fastest competitors no matter the age

Girls Medley 100M Relay 13-14 - 13/14, others have to swim up, no 15-18s.

Although the swimmer in question seemed to have finaled in 50FR even faster than the entire 13-14 and 15-18 cohort (from both teams) and had a 15s lead over her 13-14 team mates in 50FL

And the entire relay was decided by .6, so definitely a strategic decision there.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 12:20     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


If I am reading the rules correctly, that wouldn’t be considered a swim up bc that is a “mixed age” relay rather than a 13/14 designated relay. A “swim up” is when a kid swims a different age group (so an 11 year old swimming a 13/14 free, for example.).


She swam in the 12&u slot for mixed age relay and in one of the 4 slots for the 14&u medley relay. For dual meets, 11-12 and 13-14 are misnomers. The rules allow any swimmer less than or equal to the max age of the group, and of the same gender, to swim in those events.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 12:10     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.


If I am reading the rules correctly, that wouldn’t be considered a swim up bc that is a “mixed age” relay rather than a 13/14 designated relay. A “swim up” is when a kid swims a different age group (so an 11 year old swimming a 13/14 free, for example.).
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 12:10     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We are in a division two pool and this discussion was brought up by some parents because they were seeding younger faster kids to grab points.

The parents of the slower older kids thought their swimmers had a right because of their age.

The majority of the team say it is a sport and you play to win. If you have some speedsters you use them to your advantage. The A meets are supposed to be a competition and that means it teaches lessons. Summer swim has all the fun stuff as well and B meets where everyone swims. So it is all worlds.


I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do


But it’s probably up also why you guys are D2.

This. You’re a D2 pool because you win a lot, and part of how you do that is strategy rather than just rolling out the fastest kids in order for each event in each age group. You’re a D2 pool on the backs of your fastest swimmers, not the average 13 year old.


Choose a D15 pool if you don't want competitive. Seriously. You are members of a D2 pool, how do you think that happens? With a competitive strategy. There are a lot of mid-range teams that could do a lot better if they actually seeded correctly based on times.

The reason NVSL doesn't allow swim ups for Relay Carnival and divisionals is because those are the only events that lock in age groups and rate them against their peers. It is not a requirement for dual meets which should be all about seeding strategy.


Um- it’s our neighborhood pool. Chill. We didn’t pool shop
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 11:18     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


It happened in Division 10 last week. See girls 13-14 medley relay results and compare against individual event results: https://www.mynvsl.com/results/26840?back=dt

And, btw, that team would not have won the 13-14 medley relay without help from a superstar 11 year old. That equates to a 10 point swing in the overall meet results. In some cases, that can be the difference between winning and losing a meet.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 10:53     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
If you belong to a higher division pool, they are more focused on winning and it should be expected that they would swim younger kids up if they can get more points that way. We don’t do that on our team, but we also don’t strive to be a highly competitive swim team. I think both approaches are fine.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 10:50     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


Agreed. At a mid level pool that most definitely doesn’t do this. We focus on the love for the sport part of that NVSL quote, not the competitive part.


Well, count me as being in the camp of those that love to compete. Competition is fun. Trying to win is fun. It’s not fun to lose all the time.
Anonymous
Post 07/07/2023 10:39     Subject: swimming up someone nvsl
Anonymous wrote:In the mid level divisions this doesn't happen. Younger kids only swim up if it means they can get an empty lane that wouldn't be filled.


Agreed. At a mid level pool that most definitely doesn’t do this. We focus on the love for the sport part of that NVSL quote, not the competitive part.