Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To explain a bit more - DHs job is inflexible (or at least he treats it that way and that’s not something I can change short term bc his standard is that all of this could be done by a nanny. His view is our most important thing is securing their financial future which is frustrating but he grew up in an unstable war zone where his family lost everything so there’s a lot going on there ).

So that means I need to cover all the things I put these rules on and I start doing the math and think ok at a minimum 10 doctor / dentist appts a year, and 6 school performances for my one kid in school, and being home by x time every night and never traveling so that the kids always wakes up to a parent (dh travels a lot) etc etc etc and basically box myself out of any interesting job because I’m telling myself I must do alllllll the things on the family front.

So for those that don’t feel that rigid rule, im curious what they prioritize. And for those that say all of this must be a parent, cool I’m that person currently too

How on earth do you get to 10 doctor and dentist appointments per year? Our two kids get their annual checkups at a single appointment with their flu shot. Plus two teeth cleanings, also at the same time. That's three appointments, and we try to book for 8 AM so we're at work shortly after. Our au pair will handle kid transport to and from so we can go back to work immediately. We haven't had a sick appointment in a couple of years, but that's mostly luck.

My DS, an only, has more than ten a year. Yes, there’s the annual, the two dentists and several specialists, some of which I would say he sees quarterly. It’s not that my kid is unhealthy, but proper /routine care for a condition he has requires monitoring. All this to say, ten may be reasonable for OP. It helps to work with realistic assumptions.

Presumably some (many?) of these can be booked at the earliest possible time slot and OP wouldn’t be very late to work if at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To explain a bit more - DHs job is inflexible (or at least he treats it that way and that’s not something I can change short term bc his standard is that all of this could be done by a nanny. His view is our most important thing is securing their financial future which is frustrating but he grew up in an unstable war zone where his family lost everything so there’s a lot going on there ).

So that means I need to cover all the things I put these rules on and I start doing the math and think ok at a minimum 10 doctor / dentist appts a year, and 6 school performances for my one kid in school, and being home by x time every night and never traveling so that the kids always wakes up to a parent (dh travels a lot) etc etc etc and basically box myself out of any interesting job because I’m telling myself I must do alllllll the things on the family front.

So for those that don’t feel that rigid rule, im curious what they prioritize. And for those that say all of this must be a parent, cool I’m that person currently too

How on earth do you get to 10 doctor and dentist appointments per year? Our two kids get their annual checkups at a single appointment with their flu shot. Plus two teeth cleanings, also at the same time. That's three appointments, and we try to book for 8 AM so we're at work shortly after. Our au pair will handle kid transport to and from so we can go back to work immediately. We haven't had a sick appointment in a couple of years, but that's mostly luck.

My DS, an only, has more than ten a year. Yes, there’s the annual, the two dentists and several specialists, some of which I would say he sees quarterly. It’s not that my kid is unhealthy, but proper /routine care for a condition he has requires monitoring. All this to say, ten may be reasonable for OP. It helps to work with realistic assumptions.

My spouse and I both have inflexibility at times, but 99/100 times someone has flex.

I am not ok with someone else doing doctor appointments. Dental or ortho, maybe. But we've never had that issue.

School performances: I would not miss this. A soccer game one time? Maybe. Again, never done it.

Getting ready for school on occasion in a crunch (both parents away for 1 night)? Sure. Not eating dinner together? My kid is 14 and we did order him door dash a few times last year when we were both at work until 9ish. It's rare, but DH and I have a few short periods each year where we are both crunched in the evenings.

Anonymous wrote:If both jobs are that inflexible, then someone needs a more flexible job. If you have the time to get to your therapy appointments, why can't you get to your kid's appointments and performances?

Not OP, but, among other reasons, because therapy is way more important than a school performance that your kid won't even remember. Also, because therapy can be online and/or can often be fit into a work day easier than a play at 11 am.

Seriously, anyone dismissing OP for being in therapy is a jerk. Her priorities are fine.

Haven't read any comments, OP, just your original post, but we have always had our nanny take kids to the doctor and dentist unless it was something we needed to be at (that has included one orthodontist appointment so far but nothing at the dentist because it's just been regular cleanings, and we generally went to the annual appointments if it was a milestone check or something, but those stop around maybe age 4 when they get their last shots, I can't remember, it's been awhile).

There have definitely been school things that neither of us have attended and you know what - at the ones I have attended I have noticed that a lot of parents aren't there either, and often one parent in our friend group will ask someone to send pictures because they couldn't make it. We do make an effort to be at important things but seriously, there can be so many things at school that just don't need to be attended.

We used to have our nanny come in the morning and take our girls to school because their school was in a different direction from our offices and it was super inconvenient for us to drop them off so she'd also help get them ready. Depending on what time we got home in the evening she would also make them dinner because kids eat pretty early when they're younger. Now that they're at a different school and they take the bus we do the mornings, but we don't eat dinner together every night based on work and sports schedules.

What do I think a parent should be there for? I don't think there's a hard list that I could come up with. The first thing that came to me was that I liked having at least one parent put them to bed when they were younger but now (age 9) it doesn't matter as much, and even when they were little we had babysitters or our nanny if we traveled without them, so that wasn't something we did all the time. Otherwise, to me, it's just important that you generally be there for them to talk to and to spend meaningful time with them. I don't think there's a magic checklist or anything, and I wouldn't let anyone convince you otherwise. I'm sure you and your spouse are doing great!

For us:
1. Doctor visits - must be a parent
2. “Performances” must be a parent unless it’s absolutely impossible for a one off and then a grandparent will do. Still like field day or Pattie’s do not count and are optional.
3. With super rare exceptions 1 parent home for bedtime at least. Would only be comfortable having a non-parent do 1 out of 5 suppers regularly. (If kids eat early this could mean “evening play time” instead - basically spending time with them after work)

Do not care at all about outsourcing the AM off to school and school pick up stuff. We nanny shared and then had college sitters handle these for us; worked well and I did not feel bad about missing these.

Anonymous wrote:My son's lower elementary school had:

1)Fall parent teacher meeting in person during school
2) Fall play
3) Winter concert
4) Spring concert
5) Spring parent teacher meeting
6) Spring art show
7) foreign language concert
8) science fair presentations

And that's just performances and meetings during school hours. There are also evening events and volunteer events during school etc.

Crazily almost everyone has two parents there. One child always has all 4 of her step/parents there. I don't get how everyone makes it work. we cannot.

This schedule is far outside the norm of any school my kids or any of my friends' kids attend. Maybe its a private school?

I would totally outsource doctors’ and dentist visits. We have three kids and if your child is healthy there is no reason another responsible adult couldn’t be present.

I would prioritize performances. Our neighborhood has tons of WFH couples and *both* mom and dads attend; it sucks for the one kid who has no parent when their friends do.

I wouldn’t care if someone helped mornings, or even some evenings. I would try to be home for bedtime every night.

My husband and I both have careers and we have three kids.

1) Doctor and dentist appointments: Four half days a year
Dentist: I schedule them all on the same friday afternoon (my most flexible work time). DH and I and all three kids get our dental work together. We book the parents with one dentist and the kids who actually have shorter appointments with a second dentist. Rotate everyone in and out of the waiting room.
Doctor: I take the kids all on the same afternoon for their checkups, and I go to my doctor a separate day before or after work.

School events: Unless it is in the evening, I basically don't do those at all. I have never been to a field day. My kids have never had an adult at all at field day. I go to all the evening concerts/plays/etc.

Morning and evening: My DH and I have always staggered our schedules. One leaves early and starts work early, then does pick up and dinner. Other does the morning routine and breakfast and works later.

Travel: We coordinate so there is always a parent home, but we both travel for work. We just never do it on the same days.

Anonymous wrote:If both jobs are that inflexible, then someone needs a more flexible job. If you have the time to get to your therapy appointments, why can't you get to your kid's appointments and performances?

This and only this. Ask any adult whose parents had inflexible jobs and no time for them as kids, do they take pride in the prestige of their parents' jobs or do they resent being raised by strangers. Even many adults who had an absentee father and an involved mother often resent their father for prioritizing job over family. There's a lot of things parents do to make their kids into resentful adults, and it's not always avoidable, but this one is obvious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one on your list I love outsourcing is school events. I go to 3-4 school events per year, the ones my student performs in after hard word. Every random event? That’s for retired grandparents and at-home parents. Truly the one time I went to a book fair it was just grandparents adorably reading and a subset of parents closely defined by attending such activities. Send the grandparents!

My kid just finished K. Throughout this past year she had 6 performances during the day (not first thing in the AM or right before dismissal, which is still middle or the day really). Add to that the Halloween parade and party, holiday party, 100 days of school party, valentines party, Mother’s Day event, field day, water play day, her birthday, “optional” sign up to come in and read to the class, and honestly probably another few random things I’m forgetting - that’s more than a dozen mid day activities that I feel guilty if I miss and my kid feels bad if I miss. It’s just untenable. I don’t go to everything because I can’t and my kid gets that, but it still sucks to have to explain that I can’t come on a random Friday at 11 am for a “unity parade” or volunteer at field day. But at her school (NW DC), most parents have flexible jobs and make it in for nearly all of these things. There’s a handful of us (healthcare workers, feds working at SCIFs, etc) who struggle.

As a parent who has kids who aren’t yet in school, please tell me which school this is so I can avoid it!! This sounds like such a nightmare.

Oh, dear friend, all the schools are like this.

That has not been my experience. I have found that teachers and administrators respond well to discussions about limiting the work-hours events when they are framed as issues of equity.

My son's lower elementary school had:

1)Fall parent teacher meeting in person during school
2) Fall play
3) Winter concert
4) Spring concert
5) Spring parent teacher meeting
6) Spring art show
7) foreign language concert
8) science fair presentations

And that's just performances and meetings during school hours. There are also evening events and volunteer events during school etc.

Crazily almost everyone has two parents there. One child always has all 4 of her step/parents there. I don't get how everyone makes it work. we cannot.

My best friend was just telling me that she was asked last minute to bring something for an event at her son's preschool and when she said she unfortunately couldn't make it on such short notice, the person responded "Oh yes I apologize for the last minute notice. I always forget we have two moms in the class in your situation".....meaning she works.

For me, school performances and important doctors apt are a must for one parent to attend. Up until 3 years ago I was always gone before breakfast and getting ready for school. I was home for dinner every day. Would it be possible for one parent to do mornings (go in “later” to work) and one to do evenings (go in early to work)? Kids are resilient and understand as they get old a parents job may not be flexible. Do the best you can and are able and be easy on yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one on your list I love outsourcing is school events. I go to 3-4 school events per year, the ones my student performs in after hard word. Every random event? That’s for retired grandparents and at-home parents. Truly the one time I went to a book fair it was just grandparents adorably reading and a subset of parents closely defined by attending such activities. Send the grandparents!

My kid just finished K. Throughout this past year she had 6 performances during the day (not first thing in the AM or right before dismissal, which is still middle or the day really). Add to that the Halloween parade and party, holiday party, 100 days of school party, valentines party, Mother’s Day event, field day, water play day, her birthday, “optional” sign up to come in and read to the class, and honestly probably another few random things I’m forgetting - that’s more than a dozen mid day activities that I feel guilty if I miss and my kid feels bad if I miss. It’s just untenable. I don’t go to everything because I can’t and my kid gets that, but it still sucks to have to explain that I can’t come on a random Friday at 11 am for a “unity parade” or volunteer at field day. But at her school (NW DC), most parents have flexible jobs and make it in for nearly all of these things. There’s a handful of us (healthcare workers, feds working at SCIFs, etc) who struggle.

As a parent who has kids who aren’t yet in school, please tell me which school this is so I can avoid it!! This sounds like such a nightmare.

Oh, dear friend, all the schools are like this.

Nope. I posted a few posts above. Our ES is not like this at all. 2 daytime events all year that most parents come to. TWO.

Here it is:

At our public ES there are only 2 things per year during the day where most parents come: open house/meet the teacher thing a few days before school begins and “portfolio day” at the end of the year where work from the year is shared with parents. There are 2 parties “fall” (Halloween) and “winter” (Christmas) that only a few volunteer parents attend - other parents send in snacks, plates, whatever. Conferences are once a year and have afternoon and evening slots.

There a couple evening things that are voluntary like Bingo night, book fair night, etc. but they are in the evening. So there are two times a year you need to show up at school during the day, that’s it.

Our school is the same, down to the events. And the percent of parents who do come during the school day is probably 50 percent or less aside from graduation type things.

I volunteer occasionally but it’s on my own schedule (can zoom to the school for an hour for a long lunch break and make up any work at night).

I agree with PP that as long as you communicate where you are and make sure work gets done people really don’t care if you are unavailable for a couple hours once in a while. The key is to have some WAH potential (so you don’t have to go back to the office afterwards) or a very short commute.