Anonymous
06/21/2023 18:31
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Parents of sophomores who took "honors" English: was your kid prepared for AP English in 11th grade? That's my concern. My kid was bored in 9th grade "honors" and next year seems like more of the same.
AP Lang was the first time my DD thought English was a worthwhile class.
MCPS said it is going to be piloting a new AP option for 10th graders that will count toward the English requirement because it will also cover the English 10 requirements -- AP Seminar: https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-seminar
That seems positive, though it still leaves "honors" English 9 as the only freshman option at most schools.
Anonymous
06/21/2023 12:28
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Parents of sophomores who took "honors" English: was your kid prepared for AP English in 11th grade? That's my concern. My kid was bored in 9th grade "honors" and next year seems like more of the same.
AP Lang was the first time my DD thought English was a worthwhile class.
Anonymous
06/21/2023 12:23
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Parents of sophomores who took "honors" English: was your kid prepared for AP English in 11th grade? That's my concern. My kid was bored in 9th grade "honors" and next year seems like more of the same.
Anonymous
06/21/2023 09:12
Subject: Re:Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The privates may be getting rid of the classes but students are still expected to take the tests.
PP here. The private schools my kids attend(ed) never "got rid of the classes." The number of AP classes is just less than in public schools and start later. Not sure what you mean about them being "expected to take the tests."
Another big difference is that students have to be approved by faculty to take any honors or AP classes, which keeps the classes on a high level. My daughter knows quite a few students who were upset they were not approved for honors English for example.
dp.. as someone who had to beg to be let in to an AP class because of gatekeeping, then got straight As in the AP class, I'm glad they don't gatekeep. It set me up to be more challenged and do better in school.
I don't agree with honors for all, but if a student *wants* to be challenged and take an AP class, I don't think they should be prevented in doing so. That doesn't mean the class should be dumbed down, though.
I agree with you. Honors and AP should be rigorous classes, but anyone who wants to take them should be able to do so. However, not everyone should be required to take them--those who choose not to should have regular classes available.
Anonymous
06/21/2023 09:03
Subject: Re:Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The privates may be getting rid of the classes but students are still expected to take the tests.
PP here. The private schools my kids attend(ed) never "got rid of the classes." The number of AP classes is just less than in public schools and start later. Not sure what you mean about them being "expected to take the tests."
Another big difference is that students have to be approved by faculty to take any honors or AP classes, which keeps the classes on a high level. My daughter knows quite a few students who were upset they were not approved for honors English for example.
dp.. as someone who had to beg to be let in to an AP class because of gatekeeping, then got straight As in the AP class, I'm glad they don't gatekeep. It set me up to be more challenged and do better in school.
I don't agree with honors for all, but if a student *wants* to be challenged and take an AP class, I don't think they should be prevented in doing so. That doesn't mean the class should be dumbed down, though.
Anonymous
06/21/2023 08:58
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Transplant_1 wrote:Arlington public school system is not moving / does not do this. Why is MCPS? Both have the similar demographics.
they do not have similar demographics.
MCPS: URM 52%
Native American <1%
Asian or Pacific Islander 14%
Hispanic 31%
Black 21%
White 27%
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander <1%
Two or more races 4%
APS: URM 38%
Native American <1%
Asian or Pacific Islander 9%
Hispanic 28%
Black 10%
White 45%
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander <1%
Two or more races 6
https://www.greatschools.org/maryland/rockville/montgomery-county-public-schools/
https://www.greatschools.org/virginia/arlington/arlington-county-public-schools/
Anonymous
06/21/2023 08:45
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m a HS teacher and I hate the honors for all model. I have 30+ kids in the class which makes true differentiation impossible. My top kids find the class too easy and mentally check out while a bunch of kids find it too hard and are struggling with Ds and Es. It feels like a no-win situation and I am unable to teach at a genuine honors level
As a parent this seems so obvious to me. Why don't admin and other higher ups in MCPS listen to teachers like you though as they ram these Honors-for-all models into our schools?
They insist, till they're blue in the fact, that it's better, despite no persuasive evidence and the reality that if EVERYONE IS HONORS, then NO ONE IS HONORS.
Because everything these days is about the kids at the bottom. Honors classes improve student gpa’s and MCPS and other districts want to act like they are helping the bottom 25% of kids. No matter that learning is reduced across the board, the optics look good. And unfortunately due to structural issues in our society, honors classes have more white kids while on-level classes have more minority students. This is a big no no these days from an equity standpoint. All of this has led to the current mess of honors for all.
Anonymous
06/20/2023 20:22
Subject: Re:Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My kids would have been Churchill HS students. We pulled the first one out after middle school and the second one never attended an MCPS school. What we learned by accident is that the private schools they attend offer much fewer AP courses that start in junior year. So the pressure on the kids is much less and they are still surrounded by strong academic students. My oldest got into and just graduated from a top 20 university. My youngest just completed 9th grade and next year will take 3 honors classes...no APs offered in 10th. The school she attends is small and sent 25% of their graduates to top 20 schools last year.
In my opinion, private school pays off big in this area...unless you have a kid that thrives on being stressed out. I don't know too many kids like that.
How would you possibly know the stress levels of mcps HS kids when yours did not attend? My MCPS kid is also at a t20 school and did not find his very stressful.
Read it right here. Also my oldest has many MCPS friends. The pressure to take tons of APs is over the top.
AP classes should not be that stressful to take. They have sort of morphed into standard hs
AP Science classes are difficult.
AP classes were difficult for my chil/children
Anonymous
06/19/2023 23:37
Subject: Re:Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My kids would have been Churchill HS students. We pulled the first one out after middle school and the second one never attended an MCPS school. What we learned by accident is that the private schools they attend offer much fewer AP courses that start in junior year. So the pressure on the kids is much less and they are still surrounded by strong academic students. My oldest got into and just graduated from a top 20 university. My youngest just completed 9th grade and next year will take 3 honors classes...no APs offered in 10th. The school she attends is small and sent 25% of their graduates to top 20 schools last year.
In my opinion, private school pays off big in this area...unless you have a kid that thrives on being stressed out. I don't know too many kids like that.
How would you possibly know the stress levels of mcps HS kids when yours did not attend? My MCPS kid is also at a t20 school and did not find his very stressful.
Read it right here. Also my oldest has many MCPS friends. The pressure to take tons of APs is over the top.
AP classes should not be that stressful to take. They have sort of morphed into standard hs
AP Science classes are difficult.
Anonymous
06/19/2023 21:42
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:I’m a HS teacher and I hate the honors for all model. I have 30+ kids in the class which makes true differentiation impossible. My top kids find the class too easy and mentally check out while a bunch of kids find it too hard and are struggling with Ds and Es. It feels like a no-win situation and I am unable to teach at a genuine honors level
As a parent this seems so obvious to me. Why don't admin and other higher ups in MCPS listen to teachers like you though as they ram these Honors-for-all models into our schools?
They insist, till they're blue in the fact, that it's better, despite no persuasive evidence and the reality that if EVERYONE IS HONORS, then NO ONE IS HONORS.
Anonymous
06/19/2023 20:50
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
My senior just graduated, OP, with a dozen AP classes, like many students.
AP is the new Honors.
Honors is the new Regular.
Regular is the new Remedial.
This has been going on for years.
If you don't know this, you haven't been paying attention.
If you care at all about college admissions, you have to play that game. There are plenty of 4.2 wgpa, multiple-AP students who are rejected from UMD.
I teach in MCPS and this is true. UMD College Park knows exactly what is going on. Grading is a joke. New summer training in grading "equity" coming up.
UMC is only going to take so any students per school, so especially if you are at a "better" school, its going to be more selective. And, it depends on the major.
Anonymous
06/19/2023 20:49
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:
My senior just graduated, OP, with a dozen AP classes, like many students.
AP is the new Honors.
Honors is the new Regular.
Regular is the new Remedial.
This has been going on for years.
If you don't know this, you haven't been paying attention.
If you care at all about college admissions, you have to play that game. There are plenty of 4.2 wgpa, multiple-AP students who are rejected from UMD.
I teach in MCPS and this is true. UMD College Park knows exactly what is going on. Grading is a joke. New summer training in grading "equity" coming up.
Anonymous
06/19/2023 19:02
Subject: Re:Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My kids would have been Churchill HS students. We pulled the first one out after middle school and the second one never attended an MCPS school. What we learned by accident is that the private schools they attend offer much fewer AP courses that start in junior year. So the pressure on the kids is much less and they are still surrounded by strong academic students. My oldest got into and just graduated from a top 20 university. My youngest just completed 9th grade and next year will take 3 honors classes...no APs offered in 10th. The school she attends is small and sent 25% of their graduates to top 20 schools last year.
In my opinion, private school pays off big in this area...unless you have a kid that thrives on being stressed out. I don't know too many kids like that.
How would you possibly know the stress levels of mcps HS kids when yours did not attend? My MCPS kid is also at a t20 school and did not find his very stressful.
Read it right here. Also my oldest has many MCPS friends. The pressure to take tons of APs is over the top.
AP classes should not be that stressful to take. They have sort of morphed into standard hs
Anonymous
06/19/2023 18:34
Subject: Honors for All: when will it end
Transplant_1 wrote:Anonymous wrote:This model provides the only way to close the gap. It provides the illusion that they're doing this since it isn't otherwise a real possibility and lowering the bar for the top students makes it look like they've improved things.
I know that's the "cynical" answer, but is there more in terms of real data and theory?
Nah, it's the right-wing talking points.
As you can see from this thread, it's mostly private schools parents and the "sky is falling" right-wingers.
Anonymous
06/19/2023 16:57
Subject: Re:Honors for All: when will it end
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The privates may be getting rid of the classes but students are still expected to take the tests.
PP here. The private schools my kids attend(ed) never "got rid of the classes." The number of AP classes is just less than in public schools and start later. Not sure what you mean about them being "expected to take the tests."
Another big difference is that students have to be approved by faculty to take any honors or AP classes, which keeps the classes on a high level. My daughter knows quite a few students who were upset they were not approved for honors English for example.
Admissions at the big privates for the unhooked are in the toilet.
Nope. Just wonder over to the private school forum and peek at the Instagram links. It was a great year.
Really? I did that and aside from URMs or hooked students it was a blood bath.
Lots of students in my daughter's school got into top 20 schools without hooks. Some with, of course. Either way, the private schools prepare students better for college. Kids from public schools these days are just not prepared anymore...sadly the pandemic worsened things.