Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 11:35     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It must be a wildly different community of lawyers that can go to a bus stop and small talk! Clearly they are not working hard enough so take what they say with a grain of salt. They're not likely billing what you think or making as much as you think.


This is also part of what is such poor form about the complaining! Despite working a lot of hours, these people do have flexibility and are generally working remotely at least some.

Yes, all are more than welcome to go home and bill more hours at night...


That was true back in 2005, based on the infamous Kirkland & Ellis YouTube video.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 11:29     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It must be a wildly different community of lawyers that can go to a bus stop and small talk! Clearly they are not working hard enough so take what they say with a grain of salt. They're not likely billing what you think or making as much as you think.


This is also part of what is such poor form about the complaining! Despite working a lot of hours, these people do have flexibility and are generally working remotely at least some.

Yes, all are more than welcome to go home and bill more hours at night...
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 10:54     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:OP, you have already devoted way more time to thinking about this than it requires. We get it, you made all the perfect choices and now have the perfect work/life balance, so no one is allowed to complain because they too could have made those choices but they didn’t, so screw them.

These complainers are just making small talk at the bus stop, commiserating with other lawyers. Just smile and nod and change the subject or find some non lawyers to chat with. Or make a statement about how the complaining is driving you nuts and making you feel bad about your lower salary. I couldn’t hack it in Big Law and quit and am now a SAHM. People complain to me about long hours when they have the job that I wanted. That’s life!

People complain ALL the time about things that are within their capacity to change. A friend today was complaining how exhausting summer swim team is and it’s such a pain to get her kids to the pool every day and it’s too competitive and the coach is a jerk etc. She could easily pull her kids or switch pools or hire someone to do the driving or whatever. But she doesn’t want that, she just wants someone to agree that swim team is terrible and then I will take a turn venting about how hard I am working to organize an end of the year party for my kid, even though I volunteered for this!


I get your point that it's important to show empathy... no toxic positivity... etc. On the other hand, there are people who are fundamentally negative and complain out of habit. Why should we enable those people?

And there's no such thing as a perfect choice, there are always tradeoffs
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2023 10:44     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:It must be a wildly different community of lawyers that can go to a bus stop and small talk! Clearly they are not working hard enough so take what they say with a grain of salt. They're not likely billing what you think or making as much as you think.


This is also part of what is such poor form about the complaining! Despite working a lot of hours, these people do have flexibility and are generally working remotely at least some.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 18:43     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
It must be a wildly different community of lawyers that can go to a bus stop and small talk! Clearly they are not working hard enough so take what they say with a grain of salt. They're not likely billing what you think or making as much as you think.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 18:16     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Golden handcuffs are very, very real. And I don’t say that flippantly. Once you have a nice home, nanny, private school, first class flights to Hawaii for family vacation, it can be very hard to go back even if you always told yourself you wouldn’t get locked into the lifestyle.

You also don’t know what other people’s full cost base it. Perhaps they are supporting other family members, are the primary breadwinner etc. that makes a move in house harder.


This. As DH and I age, we also find the generous family healthcare coverage to be difficult to give up since we use a lot of specialists and have had expensive procedures and surgeries.


I thought big law partners had shitty insurance?


Why do you think that?

They have same insurance as associates and employees. Varies by firm but most are very good ppo plans.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 18:10     Subject: Re:Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Ironically, in my experience, lawyers complain FAR less than doctors. I grew up around healthcare professionals who all made such a fuss about taking call that I was absolutely floored by how much worse law was. There’s no “sharing call” for litigators! But lawyers bellyache about it half was much.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 18:04     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
OP, you have already devoted way more time to thinking about this than it requires. We get it, you made all the perfect choices and now have the perfect work/life balance, so no one is allowed to complain because they too could have made those choices but they didn’t, so screw them.

These complainers are just making small talk at the bus stop, commiserating with other lawyers. Just smile and nod and change the subject or find some non lawyers to chat with. Or make a statement about how the complaining is driving you nuts and making you feel bad about your lower salary. I couldn’t hack it in Big Law and quit and am now a SAHM. People complain to me about long hours when they have the job that I wanted. That’s life!

People complain ALL the time about things that are within their capacity to change. A friend today was complaining how exhausting summer swim team is and it’s such a pain to get her kids to the pool every day and it’s too competitive and the coach is a jerk etc. She could easily pull her kids or switch pools or hire someone to do the driving or whatever. But she doesn’t want that, she just wants someone to agree that swim team is terrible and then I will take a turn venting about how hard I am working to organize an end of the year party for my kid, even though I volunteered for this!
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 17:27     Subject: Re:Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Why would you bill 2,500 hours as an equity partner after putting in the work to get there? Is that in your partnership agreement? Are you worried about being voted out? WTH?
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 17:17     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
I stumbled on a blog on a while back with articles that helped me 'survive' in a law firm environment by focusing on things like boundaries, asking for what I want, doing it my way, etc.:
https://www.attorneyevolved.com/
Don't know them and not affiliated, but wanted to share as it helped.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 17:07     Subject: Re:Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Show me a partner who consistently bills 2500 hours a year and I’ll show you someone committing billing fraud.


I know one person like this - a senior partner. He always bills more than 2500 hours, but that's because he loves it, and has very little else in his life. But by and large, I agree with you - it's generally not happening.


Right. Exception that proves the rule.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 17:06     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Golden handcuffs are very, very real. And I don’t say that flippantly. Once you have a nice home, nanny, private school, first class flights to Hawaii for family vacation, it can be very hard to go back even if you always told yourself you wouldn’t get locked into the lifestyle.

You also don’t know what other people’s full cost base it. Perhaps they are supporting other family members, are the primary breadwinner etc. that makes a move in house harder.


This. As DH and I age, we also find the generous family healthcare coverage to be difficult to give up since we use a lot of specialists and have had expensive procedures and surgeries.


Please elaborate....what do you mean by generous?

We have a high deductible plan with a $38K annual premium, plus $15K minimum family deductible for 4.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 16:57     Subject: Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It’s harder to leave than you think.

I spent 10 years in biglaw as a litigator. I never got offered a single job in-house or in Fed gov despite applying widely. I moved firms a couple times just trying to find more peace but it was just as bad, even when I did ultimately accept a pay cut.

One reason I couldn’t get an in-house offer is I couldn’t move to where clients are because of DH’s job which pretty much only exists in DC.



This. It’s not that easy to get a job like yours.

I’d be willing to bet your nonprofits fundraising department relies heavily on donations from big law firms….so these big law lawyers are subsidizing your salary….


NP and doubtful. Corporate donors, sure, but I don't think biglaw firms are bastions of charitable giving.


DP. Well then you’d think wrong.


PP here I didn't that to say that law firms are cheap, but they're small players in the scheme of things so numerically they're just not in a position to move the needle that much. The largest firm, Kirkland, has total revenues of about $6 billion and by the time you get to DLA (#3) it's $3.4 billion. By contrast, Walmart had over $500 billion of revenues and #4, CVS, had revenues of about $300 billion. Even if they donated in an equal percentage corporate donations would crush law firm donations.


Most of the impact litigation that nonprofits take on is done by big firm lawyers taking the case on pro bono. If you are going to look at what big law firms give, you have to include dollars and hours of work. Frankly, I think it's one of the better things about working at big law.


Like I said I'm not saying they don't contribute but numerically the amount is relatively small compared to other sources. They might contribute more as a percentage of revenue (could be, dont know) but my point is that it is unlikely biglaw firms are the primary funding source for OPs non profit.
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 16:56     Subject: Re:Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Show me a partner who consistently bills 2500 hours a year and I’ll show you someone committing billing fraud.


I know one person like this - a senior partner. He always bills more than 2500 hours, but that's because he loves it, and has very little else in his life. But by and large, I agree with you - it's generally not happening.

Good grief. The goal is to pass the hours off onto junior employees, not continue to bill the ridiculous number of 2,500...
Anonymous
Post 06/14/2023 16:39     Subject: Re:Big law attorneys who complain about the lifestyle
Anonymous wrote:Show me a partner who consistently bills 2500 hours a year and I’ll show you someone committing billing fraud.


I know one person like this - a senior partner. He always bills more than 2500 hours, but that's because he loves it, and has very little else in his life. But by and large, I agree with you - it's generally not happening.