Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m happy to help my parents. They worked hard and never had enough.

So, does that mean you agree with the "You have a moral obligation to help a family member in need even if you have no legal obligations towards them." argument?

DP. A random family member? No. My parents, if still alive? Absolutely, within my means.

My children? It depends on why they need help - if for the usual stuff such as job loss, bad economy environment, health issues, divorce, etc - Yes, absolutely!

If OTOH if they turn into drug addicts who keep throwing away opportunities and screwing up their lives, at some point I will not be willing to help. We can only help those to want to be helped.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDK, but sounds like you have a terrible relationship with your family. If my parents ever had a need, I would 100% take them into my home and take care of them. Right now they live with my brother. In our culture we take care of our elders. I have also told my kids they can always come back to me for help. It might be that they need an extra push to be more productive and get off video games and get a real job, but I'm not there yet with my kids. I will always have a room for them at my house when they are in need. However, if you're at the point when you feel that "I didn't ask to be born" that doesn't seem like a good place to support their parents. Seems like deeper issues.

Like I said before, I understand both arguments on their own. What I don't understand is the double-standard; why the "You have a moral obligation to help a family member in need even if you have no legal obligations towards them." argument is valid when an adult child has a parent in need, but not when a parent has an adult child in need.

Idk about others but my parents would've done everything if I needed help and I do everything I can for my children. Its not an obligation, real term is unconditional love.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m happy to help my parents. They worked hard and never had enough.

So, does that mean you agree with the "You have a moral obligation to help a family member in need even if you have no legal obligations towards them." argument?

Not PP but shouldn't everyone?

Anonymous wrote:IDK, but sounds like you have a terrible relationship with your family. If my parents ever had a need, I would 100% take them into my home and take care of them. Right now they live with my brother. In our culture we take care of our elders. I have also told my kids they can always come back to me for help. It might be that they need an extra push to be more productive and get off video games and get a real job, but I'm not there yet with my kids. I will always have a room for them at my house when they are in need. However, if you're at the point when you feel that "I didn't ask to be born" that doesn't seem like a good place to support their parents. Seems like deeper issues.

Like I said before, I understand both arguments on their own. What I don't understand is the double-standard; why the "You have a moral obligation to help a family member in need even if you have no legal obligations towards them." argument is valid when an adult child has a parent in need, but not when a parent has an adult child in need.

Anonymous wrote:IDK, but sounds like you have a terrible relationship with your family. If my parents ever had a need, I would 100% take them into my home and take care of them. Right now they live with my brother. In our culture we take care of our elders. I have also told my kids they can always come back to me for help. It might be that they need an extra push to be more productive and get off video games and get a real job, but I'm not there yet with my kids. I will always have a room for them at my house when they are in need. However, if you're at the point when you feel that "I didn't ask to be born" that doesn't seem like a good place to support their parents. Seems like deeper issues.

So, do you agree with the "You have a moral obligation to help a family member in need even if you have no legal obligations towards them." argument or not?

Anonymous wrote:I’m happy to help my parents. They worked hard and never had enough.

So, does that mean you agree with the "You have a moral obligation to help a family member in need even if you have no legal obligations towards them." argument?

I’m happy to help my parents. They worked hard and never had enough.

IDK, but sounds like you have a terrible relationship with your family. If my parents ever had a need, I would 100% take them into my home and take care of them. Right now they live with my brother. In our culture we take care of our elders. I have also told my kids they can always come back to me for help. It might be that they need an extra push to be more productive and get off video games and get a real job, but I'm not there yet with my kids. I will always have a room for them at my house when they are in need. However, if you're at the point when you feel that "I didn't ask to be born" that doesn't seem like a good place to support their parents. Seems like deeper issues.

Adult children are usually able bodied and young so "leeching off" of aging parents is just plain wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a spoiled 18-24 year old asking this.
Stats show Parents spend approx. $300,000 raising a child until age 18, plus tons more if they pay for college. That is enough.

For this, an adult child should then return the gift and help care for a parent for the last 5-10 years of their life when they become frail and need care. That’s the circle of life.

An adult age 22ish- age 60 shouldn’t need help or be leeching off anyone.

No child asked to be born whereas the parent chose to take on the responsibility of raising a child.

That aside, there are a lot of crummy parents out there and the ones I’ve seen with the biggest “my kids owe me” are the ones who did nothing to save or set themselves up in retirement. Often this is cultural and I’ve seen it play out with friend who married into families with parents who lived pretty high on the hog spending paycheck to paycheck and now feel their child should care for them, often not just for a last few handful of years but potentially a couple decades. It’s so unreasonable.

And I imagine if you’re a kind, generous parent who treated your kids very well and you did the best you could to save, your kids will feel more inclined to want to help you if they can. But the expectation that your kids are going to just keep bankrolling you at the lifestyle you are accustomed to in old age is literal narcissism.

Why don't you ask some adult children if they wanted to be born. Pretty sure 99% will say yes. That argument is really dumb.

I would have mixed feelings about that, to be honest. My parents had too many children, they were bad parents to us, and I have thought many times that if they'd stopped having kids before I was born, both my parents and my older siblings might have had a shot at a more functional and healthy life. I don't blame myself for being born (not my choice) nor even really blame my parents (it was their choice but I'm not sure they understood it to be, and I think they were heavily influenced by religion and upbringing to have a certain kind of family that was against their interests).

Anyway, I can't say I "wanted" to be born, and I do have questions about whether it was best in the long run to have been born. I had a very abusive and neglectful childhood, and all my siblings and I have major issues, and even though I've made the most of it, I can't say unreservedly "I'm glad I exist." It's more that hope springs eternal that my existence will lead to something positive, which is different.

Anonymous wrote:Do you not feel any responsibility towards your parents and have no wish to return the live, kindness, care, education, resources they provided to even though they could've spent energy and money on better lifestyle and retirement.

There is no real compulsion for parents to care and provide for their children. There are many who only offer abortions, neglect, abuse, selfishness, broken families, alcoholism etc etc.

There's this weird middle ground though where parents may have provided a home and food and maybe even have helped with college, but were also abusive, neglectful, and selfish. I think that's where you run into problems. Because from the adult child's perspective, their parents may have given them only the bare minimum of what was legally required but may also have failed to love them, provide safety or affection, been supportive or kind.

In that case, what does the adult child "owe" their parents, really? Like if they actually gave back in kind, they'd provide for their aging parents financially while also abusing them or being emotionally neglectful. Is that best? Is it just?

I have parents like this, and what I choose is to be emotionally supportive and kind (I know that the reason my parents were the parents they were is that they did not receive kindness or love in their own childhoods -- I'm not going to punish them further) but I would not take them into my home or support them financially. I might help them figure out how to maximize their social security and other sources of support, but I would do so on my terms and if it spilled over into subjecting myself to abuse and manipulation, I'd bow out.

Meanwhile, if my adult child needed something and I had it to give, I'd give it -- a place to stay, a shoulder to cry on, a cash infusion. My relationship with my kid is uncomplicated. We love each other unreservedly and I'll always show up for her. We have had good boundaries and communication from the jump, so I don't worry about being taken advantage of or her becoming too dependent on me. I know if she did need money or a place to stay, I could also have frank conversations with her about how long that might last and what she needed to do to become more independent. I also know she's be grateful and kind and helpful.

It's just a totally different relationship. I have less willingness to help people who have a history of abusing me, violating my boundaries, being manipulative, refusing basic emotional support, etc. None of that applies to my kid.

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad I'm not in this situation but I would not have abundant empathy for my parents' problems if they refused to have any empathy for my problems when I was younger. I know of a lot of parents of adult children who think that the world worked exactly as it did when they were fresh out of high school, so they refused to give their kids any financial help (or babysitting) at all after they graduated from high school. If I had a parent like that I'd be so tempted to say "you knew you'd get old, why didn't you prepare for it financially? That was your problem and you failed and I guess you have to deal with the consequences." I wouldn't do it because I'd feel guilty but the entitlement of some of these people is astounding.

My ILs are somewhat clueless that the trappings of MC life are much, much more expensive than when their kids were school age. They could live in a good school district and still pay ~25% of their HHI for housing. Medical care much less expensive, etc. That kind of a life style now is a pipe dream unless one has money.

They've basically blown through the inheritance they received on FiL's side as well as their retirement savings and will soon be looking for us to cover their expenses, when we have had to do everything on less.

We'll end up doing it, but still.

Because, to each according to their abilities.

It can be a cultural issue and so if couple is mixed cultures American Asian and American Caucasian then the values of family expectation can clash. Please be respectful of each others ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a spoiled 18-24 year old asking this.
Stats show Parents spend approx. $300,000 raising a child until age 18, plus tons more if they pay for college. That is enough.

For this, an adult child should then return the gift and help care for a parent for the last 5-10 years of their life when they become frail and need care. That’s the circle of life.

An adult age 22ish- age 60 shouldn’t need help or be leeching off anyone.

No child asked to be born whereas the parent chose to take on the responsibility of raising a child.

That aside, there are a lot of crummy parents out there and the ones I’ve seen with the biggest “my kids owe me” are the ones who did nothing to save or set themselves up in retirement. Often this is cultural and I’ve seen it play out with friend who married into families with parents who lived pretty high on the hog spending paycheck to paycheck and now feel their child should care for them, often not just for a last few handful of years but potentially a couple decades. It’s so unreasonable.

And I imagine if you’re a kind, generous parent who treated your kids very well and you did the best you could to save, your kids will feel more inclined to want to help you if they can. But the expectation that your kids are going to just keep bankrolling you at the lifestyle you are accustomed to in old age is literal narcissism.

Why don't you ask some adult children if they wanted to be born. Pretty sure 99% will say yes. That argument is really dumb.

Well, humans have limited control over that. Birth control can fail. Complain to God or whatever higher power you believe or not believe in.