People presumably have their different reasons, but the main camps of rationale for cheating seem to be (1) just physical, (2) need for emotional connection (with or without a physical component) or (3) Camp 1 preying on Camp 2 (or on someone who doesn’t even know the guy is married).

Within Camp 3, the rationales seem to be (A) a need to boost or soothe their ego, without much or any concern for others, (B) getting off on the power of having their cake and eating it too, aka “sense of entitlement,” and/or (C) getting off on the power of duping their spouse, AP, etc. and getting away with it, aka “Duper’s Delight.” For the latter, the cheater may feel superior and perhaps even relish in the unrequited pining the AP is doing or the profound hurt inflicted on the spouse but she still stays with him despite his affairs. None of this is good, but Camp C.3 is the worst IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Np, and I am wired like you, op. I would not sleep with a married man; it's just not something I want on my resume/conscious.

I do agree with other PPs that the responsibility largely falls on the cheating spouse. However, being complicit in the indecency absolutely detracts from the other party's character.

Years ago, a relative of mine openly dealt with a married man. He eventually divorced his wife, and they married two weeks after the divorce was final. He did the same thing to my relative within five years, and they divorced. I was always baffled at how hurt and devastated she was that her marriage came undone given her role in the first marriage's demise.

This, the bold. The OW often thinks she's special, she rescued him from his unhappy marriage, etc. But cheaters are going to cheat again in many, many cases. I won't say, "in every case," because I hate broad universal claims like that, and surely there are some couples out there where they started as APs and actually have a faithful relationship when they become a public couple. (Maybe.) But there's a reason for the saying, if he'd cheat with you, he'd cheat on you.

Of course it depends, but some men actually do end up in second or third marriage that do not result in any cheating. A lot of times they are taken to the cleaners and learn the hard way that it’s not worth it. They figure out the second wife is just like the first one. They are behind financially from divorcing the first wife. This was all a lot of trouble and they sit tight and don’t do the same thing all over again.

This is exactly my uncle. He can’t afford a second divorce so he’s stuck with the current wife. His kids have cut him off over how he treated their mother in the divorce and only his parents and one of his siblings speak to him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had a few married lovers when I was young. Never thought about the wife. It was just for fun - never thought of anything serious and I know they didn’t either. They are all still married, last I looked. I think wives and lovers really exist in different non overlapping universes.

Are you or have you ever been married? Or just in a committed relationship? If so, do you shrug off the idea that your spouse or significant other might be screwing other people, and you're just fine with that now that you're the wife/SO? Asking seriously. I wonder if you think, that was in the "wild oats" days and of course now I'm special enough that my SO and I don't need "just for fun" sex with others. Either that, or you're in whatever you call an open relationship etc. and you live with an SO but both have sex whenever, with anyone. So, how did your youthful AP flings translate now that you're older, if you do any kind of committed relationship yourself?

I’m married with children. I don’t think anyone is special enough to dull the allure of sleeping with a new person. I’m much older now and in the context of a long term marriage, I don’t think physical infidelity is a colossal deal breaker. Marriage is not primarily about sex for me. In fact, I know my DH has had flings. I didn’t but not out of any deep conviction, just didn’t get around to it. If I did, it would not affect my marriage.

You’re too rational for posters on here. This is going to go over their head.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had a few married lovers when I was young. Never thought about the wife. It was just for fun - never thought of anything serious and I know they didn’t either. They are all still married, last I looked. I think wives and lovers really exist in different non overlapping universes.

Are you or have you ever been married? Or just in a committed relationship? If so, do you shrug off the idea that your spouse or significant other might be screwing other people, and you're just fine with that now that you're the wife/SO? Asking seriously. I wonder if you think, that was in the "wild oats" days and of course now I'm special enough that my SO and I don't need "just for fun" sex with others. Either that, or you're in whatever you call an open relationship etc. and you live with an SO but both have sex whenever, with anyone. So, how did your youthful AP flings translate now that you're older, if you do any kind of committed relationship yourself?

I’m married with children. I don’t think anyone is special enough to dull the allure of sleeping with a new person. I’m much older now and in the context of a long term marriage, I don’t think physical infidelity is a colossal deal breaker. Marriage is not primarily about sex for me. In fact, I know my DH has had flings. I didn’t but not out of any deep conviction, just didn’t get around to it. If I did, it would not affect my marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Np, and I am wired like you, op. I would not sleep with a married man; it's just not something I want on my resume/conscious.

I do agree with other PPs that the responsibility largely falls on the cheating spouse. However, being complicit in the indecency absolutely detracts from the other party's character.

Years ago, a relative of mine openly dealt with a married man. He eventually divorced his wife, and they married two weeks after the divorce was final. He did the same thing to my relative within five years, and they divorced. I was always baffled at how hurt and devastated she was that her marriage came undone given her role in the first marriage's demise.

This, the bold. The OW often thinks she's special, she rescued him from his unhappy marriage, etc. But cheaters are going to cheat again in many, many cases. I won't say, "in every case," because I hate broad universal claims like that, and surely there are some couples out there where they started as APs and actually have a faithful relationship when they become a public couple. (Maybe.) But there's a reason for the saying, if he'd cheat with you, he'd cheat on you.

Of course it depends, but some men actually do end up in second or third marriage that do not result in any cheating. A lot of times they are taken to the cleaners and learn the hard way that it’s not worth it. They figure out the second wife is just like the first one. They are behind financially from divorcing the first wife. This was all a lot of trouble and they sit tight and don’t do the same thing all over again.

Anonymous wrote:
From two different PPs above:

"From what he told me, his marriage was less catastrophic than mine but I still believe it was bad."

"It became obvious over time that he was missing something. He loved to talk with me and I don’t see how someone in a great marriage would be down for talking to a random woman ad nauseam."

I hope both of them can step back and see how hard they rationalized their dealings with married men who were looking to cheat on wives. Neither of these PPs can possibly truly know if those marriages were "bad" -- they were believing things told to them by men who may indeed have wanted affection and attention but whose end goal included sex at some point.

Interestingly, both those posts get very vague when it comes to the endings, and don't say outright, "We were full-on APs who had sex." I think one of those PPs indicates it was all sexting but it's not truly clear. Even if neither of them ever slept with these men, the way they're trying to justify or explain how they got sucked in is sad, especially since they're still doing it right now, today. "The marriage must be bad/sexless/she's not a bad person but won't go to counseling with him" stuff may all be true--but that doesn't justify your coming into that relationship even if it's only to be his sounding board and let him vent. And yes, despite the usual DCUM "it's only sex, nothing to do with the marriage itself" posters, an AP, or even "just" a sexting partner, is inserting herself or himself into the married person's relationship, even if the spouse never finds out.

Just be honest with yourselves and see that your belief that "he was missing something" and "I believe it was bad" is based 100 percent on what was told you by an unreliable narrator with an agenda to get something from you.

Why are you assuming all of this?

The married man I was with told me he has an excellent marriage. It was described as loving and a lot of commonality. He said the only thing missing was sex. He described her as terribly repressed. He said they had sex but not the kind of sex he liked.

I don’t believe someone who has a terrific and loving marriage is going around having sex with other people. More so, I don’t think someone who is in such a great marriage is spending hours a day texting with a relative stranger. He seemed to spend a lot of time on his own and I am pretty sure his wife knows he has had multiple affairs.

So no, I don’t buy that he had or has a great marriage.

I am no longer in touch with him. I am working on myself and trying to figure out why I can do to no longer get involved in something like that. I am in a miserable marriage but do not know how to exit with two young children and a husband who threatens me.

Anonymous wrote:Had a few married lovers when I was young. Never thought about the wife. It was just for fun - never thought of anything serious and I know they didn’t either. They are all still married, last I looked. I think wives and lovers really exist in different non overlapping universes.

Are you or have you ever been married? Or just in a committed relationship? If so, do you shrug off the idea that your spouse or significant other might be screwing other people, and you're just fine with that now that you're the wife/SO? Asking seriously. I wonder if you think, that was in the "wild oats" days and of course now I'm special enough that my SO and I don't need "just for fun" sex with others. Either that, or you're in whatever you call an open relationship etc. and you live with an SO but both have sex whenever, with anyone. So, how did your youthful AP flings translate now that you're older, if you do any kind of committed relationship yourself?

From two different PPs above:

"From what he told me, his marriage was less catastrophic than mine but I still believe it was bad."

"It became obvious over time that he was missing something. He loved to talk with me and I don’t see how someone in a great marriage would be down for talking to a random woman ad nauseam."

I hope both of them can step back and see how hard they rationalized their dealings with married men who were looking to cheat on wives. Neither of these PPs can possibly truly know if those marriages were "bad" -- they were believing things told to them by men who may indeed have wanted affection and attention but whose end goal included sex at some point.

Interestingly, both those posts get very vague when it comes to the endings, and don't say outright, "We were full-on APs who had sex." I think one of those PPs indicates it was all sexting but it's not truly clear. Even if neither of them ever slept with these men, the way they're trying to justify or explain how they got sucked in is sad, especially since they're still doing it right now, today. "The marriage must be bad/sexless/she's not a bad person but won't go to counseling with him" stuff may all be true--but that doesn't justify your coming into that relationship even if it's only to be his sounding board and let him vent. And yes, despite the usual DCUM "it's only sex, nothing to do with the marriage itself" posters, an AP, or even "just" a sexting partner, is inserting herself or himself into the married person's relationship, even if the spouse never finds out.

Just be honest with yourselves and see that your belief that "he was missing something" and "I believe it was bad" is based 100 percent on what was told you by an unreliable narrator with an agenda to get something from you.

Anonymous wrote:Np, and I am wired like you, op. I would not sleep with a married man; it's just not something I want on my resume/conscious.

I do agree with other PPs that the responsibility largely falls on the cheating spouse. However, being complicit in the indecency absolutely detracts from the other party's character.

Years ago, a relative of mine openly dealt with a married man. He eventually divorced his wife, and they married two weeks after the divorce was final. He did the same thing to my relative within five years, and they divorced. I was always baffled at how hurt and devastated she was that her marriage came undone given her role in the first marriage's demise.

This, the bold. The OW often thinks she's special, she rescued him from his unhappy marriage, etc. But cheaters are going to cheat again in many, many cases. I won't say, "in every case," because I hate broad universal claims like that, and surely there are some couples out there where they started as APs and actually have a faithful relationship when they become a public couple. (Maybe.) But there's a reason for the saying, if he'd cheat with you, he'd cheat on you.

Np, and I am wired like you, op. I would not sleep with a married man; it's just not something I want on my resume/conscious.

I do agree with other PPs that the responsibility largely falls on the cheating spouse. However, being complicit in the indecency absolutely detracts from the other party's character.

Years ago, a relative of mine openly dealt with a married man. He eventually divorced his wife, and they married two weeks after the divorce was final. He did the same thing to my relative within five years, and they divorced. I was always baffled at how hurt and devastated she was that her marriage came undone given her role in the first marriage's demise.

*enjoyed

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, at one miserable point in my miserable marriage, I began sexting with men online. It was fun and I personally didn’t consider it cheating, just more of a pretend fantasy.

Eventually I landed on a married man and it was awful from start to finish. For one thing, he was funny and smart and sweet and we had a lot in common. I had feelings for him and pretended I didn’t. From what he told me, his marriage was less catastrophic than mine but I still believe it was bad. He admitted his wife wasn’t a bad person but that she refused to do marriage counseling with him and they only had sex 2-3 times per year. Maybe true, maybe not. I don’t think he had much reason to lie, honestly, some woman you are sexting with online is not going to be a paragon of virtue needing a lot of moral justification.

I did think about his wife and kids and felt awful about the whole thing the whole time. I liked him so much and I knew it was going to escalate and there could be no good outcome, so I slowly disengaged and eventually blocked him.

Similar experience. The man I met had a very fancy lifestyle and he is very into appearances. Good looking wife, beautiful homes, expensive artwork etc. But it became obvious over time that he was missing something. He loved to talk with me and I don’t see how someone in a great marriage would be down for talking to a random woman ad nauseam.

I was interested in talking to him because my marriage was in a bad place. Abuse, lies, cheating etc. I was simply lonely. I enjoyed speaking to this man and having someone be kind to me.

It ended because it drove me crazy and I knew I’d eventually get caught. I will miss him for the rest of my life. If I could do it all over again, I would have never married my DH or had children.

Your feelings sound more about feeling trapped and needing a way out than it is for this particular guy. It could be anyone. You annoyed his attention.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, at one miserable point in my miserable marriage, I began sexting with men online. It was fun and I personally didn’t consider it cheating, just more of a pretend fantasy.

Eventually I landed on a married man and it was awful from start to finish. For one thing, he was funny and smart and sweet and we had a lot in common. I had feelings for him and pretended I didn’t. From what he told me, his marriage was less catastrophic than mine but I still believe it was bad. He admitted his wife wasn’t a bad person but that she refused to do marriage counseling with him and they only had sex 2-3 times per year. Maybe true, maybe not. I don’t think he had much reason to lie, honestly, some woman you are sexting with online is not going to be a paragon of virtue needing a lot of moral justification.

I did think about his wife and kids and felt awful about the whole thing the whole time. I liked him so much and I knew it was going to escalate and there could be no good outcome, so I slowly disengaged and eventually blocked him.

Similar experience. The man I met had a very fancy lifestyle and he is very into appearances. Good looking wife, beautiful homes, expensive artwork etc. But it became obvious over time that he was missing something. He loved to talk with me and I don’t see how someone in a great marriage would be down for talking to a random woman ad nauseam.

I was interested in talking to him because my marriage was in a bad place. Abuse, lies, cheating etc. I was simply lonely. I enjoyed speaking to this man and having someone be kind to me.

It ended because it drove me crazy and I knew I’d eventually get caught. I will miss him for the rest of my life. If I could do it all over again, I would have never married my DH or had children.

Ugh, at one miserable point in my miserable marriage, I began sexting with men online. It was fun and I personally didn’t consider it cheating, just more of a pretend fantasy.

Eventually I landed on a married man and it was awful from start to finish. For one thing, he was funny and smart and sweet and we had a lot in common. I had feelings for him and pretended I didn’t. From what he told me, his marriage was less catastrophic than mine but I still believe it was bad. He admitted his wife wasn’t a bad person but that she refused to do marriage counseling with him and they only had sex 2-3 times per year. Maybe true, maybe not. I don’t think he had much reason to lie, honestly, some woman you are sexting with online is not going to be a paragon of virtue needing a lot of moral justification.

I did think about his wife and kids and felt awful about the whole thing the whole time. I liked him so much and I knew it was going to escalate and there could be no good outcome, so I slowly disengaged and eventually blocked him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever feel bad for the spouse (and/or kids)? How did you reconcile entering someone else’s family like that.

Did you wish he/she would divorce or die so in your mind you could end up with them?

I’ve heard some really awful things from OW so just wondering anonymously what let you cross that line?

I got hit in a lot by married co-workers and others and my mind always went to their wife. I never wanted to do that to another woman, even ones I didn’t know. If things got heated, I’d distance and put up a wall. Things just don’t happen….

I worked in a hospital several years ago. One of the nurses went aggressively after a guy who was in a prestigious radiology fellowship. He was married with kids and his wife had supported him all through med school and residency, but he chose to break his vows. The nurse got pregnant and became wife #2. She’s popped out 2 more kids and is enjoying the good life now.

Her "good life" is bought at the cost of constantly knowing -- or obliviously trying to forget -- that , as the saying goes, "if he will cheat WITH you, he will cheat ON you." Maybe she's convinced herself she's his one great love, of course. Hope she enjoys her delusion and the "good life" she thinks she and her kids have.

The man's marriage must not have been good if he's having unprotected sex with someone who isn't his wife. Some of you act like men are simply innocent babes roaming the Earth, unable to resist any sort of temptation. It's always someone else's fault when he cheats.

Read the literature, even the most recent Hopkins study, it actually has ZERO to do with the marriage. Most men are very happy. They cheat for their own messed up reasons or just because they can in a 50-year marriage. It’s not the wife’s fault or the marriage.

A cheater is a person with no morals and horrible coping skills and very self-centered.

Some women are trying to rationalize cheating (his marriage was terrible!) and some women are trying to rationalize being cheated on (my husband risking his family and life have nothing to do with the marriage!). There is a lot of space between these two extremes.