Anonymous
05/17/2023 18:14
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.
I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.
Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.
Where are these states with no income tax and good public schools? Certainly not Florida - you need to send your DC to private school if you want a decent environment (i.e., soap and toilet paper).
There absolutely are good schools in Florida! I don’t understand how someone can think that in such a large state there aren’t any decent public school districts. How do you end up so ignorant and uneducated?
Your argument is a bit crass and rude. But anyway, let me explain this to you. There are very few outliers, Pineview comes to mind. Overall though, Florida public schools are underfunded. The teaching methods in Miami, the largest school district are antiquated - rote memorization, teachers just reading from slides, etc. Teachers are overworked and overwhelmed, yet underpaid. Some “excellent” schools have no soap and toilet paper (school that my friend’s DS attends, top school). The equipment is a joke - one functioning copy machine for a school of 1100 kids. Math books arriving months after school starts. Disintegrating furniture in the teacher’s offices (saw with my own eyes, absolutely shameful). This is from top schools, in terms of program and test scores. Yes - the kids learned a lot of material, but is it ok to have 35 kids in second grade? In a tiny classroom? No. It’s not. Is it ok for you, if your smart but quiet and well behaved DC gets ignored for years, because the teachers only pay attention to the ones who misbehave? Also, if your DC is used to MC or UMC diet at home, you’ll be packing lunch each day, because the lunch they serve isn’t what you’d want your DC to eat.
Here’s a link to the top 10 public school districts in Florida. St Johns is #1.
https://www.niche.com/k12/search/best-school-districts/s/florida/
DP: I wouldn't argue that there aren't good schools in a whole state, but I also wouldn't use niche. com as a reliable source. Or Greatschools. You have to drill down and look at more factors.
Zoom into the schools at a large MCPS-sized school district in Florida:
Miami-Dade: https://www.niche.com/k12/d/miami-dade-county-public-schools-fl/
Broward: https://www.niche.com/k12/d/broward-county-public-schools-fl/
Grades range from A through D, when you chop it up into regions the size of tiny St Johns County.
Quelle surprise, "better school" == "wealthier parents", even within a single district with shared funding and leadership.
Anonymous
05/17/2023 13:58
Subject: Re:Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.
Constant job-hopping is such a red flag that I don’t know why employers hire any of you people. I can’t fault anyone for trying to improve themselves, but as an employer, I’d say, “God bless, but you’re not going to pull that nonsense on my dime.”
Three job changes in eight years is not a red flag, grandpa. Especially if you have SME in an in-demand area.
DP - You underestimate the value of real experience, because you're too green and too ambitious for your boots. Anyone can spout back how to milk a cow in theory - how many people can actually come back with a bucket of milk when put to do it? Not many, I assure you. I agree with PP, your deficiencies will be noticed and bridges burned leaving you cold if you keep that up. Good luck!
DP. I do think the poster is correct that now a days, you do really have to change jobs to get a meaningful pay raise. While I wouldn’t go as far as to call her a job hopper, 2.5 years in a job - past the first post college years - isn’t a very long stint at all. I would also be worried about how well she can do the job. And once you hit $300k in comp like she has, you have to expect folks to be taking a real hard look at your results, judgment, and sheer talent, all of which are often a function of experience. I definitely know folks that happily job hopped to higher paying roles only to be pushed out a year or two later. “Can you actually do this job,” was often the question driving the decision from management.
PP I don’t say this to scare you or put you down. But I do think people need to understand there’s a real risk in the “hop hop hop for a better paying job.” You really gotta make sure you’re ready for a new, bigger role.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 13:24
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.
I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.
Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.
Where are these states with no income tax and good public schools? Certainly not Florida - you need to send your DC to private school if you want a decent environment (i.e., soap and toilet paper).
There absolutely are good schools in Florida! I don’t understand how someone can think that in such a large state there aren’t any decent public school districts. How do you end up so ignorant and uneducated?
Your argument is a bit crass and rude. But anyway, let me explain this to you. There are very few outliers, Pineview comes to mind. Overall though, Florida public schools are underfunded. The teaching methods in Miami, the largest school district are antiquated - rote memorization, teachers just reading from slides, etc. Teachers are overworked and overwhelmed, yet underpaid. Some “excellent” schools have no soap and toilet paper (school that my friend’s DS attends, top school). The equipment is a joke - one functioning copy machine for a school of 1100 kids. Math books arriving months after school starts. Disintegrating furniture in the teacher’s offices (saw with my own eyes, absolutely shameful). This is from top schools, in terms of program and test scores. Yes - the kids learned a lot of material, but is it ok to have 35 kids in second grade? In a tiny classroom? No. It’s not. Is it ok for you, if your smart but quiet and well behaved DC gets ignored for years, because the teachers only pay attention to the ones who misbehave? Also, if your DC is used to MC or UMC diet at home, you’ll be packing lunch each day, because the lunch they serve isn’t what you’d want your DC to eat.
Wow it’s shocking the schools are bad in Miami. Can you even identify any large cities in the US with good school districts? Newsflash: Good public schools mostly come down to kids having educated and married parents. Let’s assume the schools in Florida are all like the schools in Miami.
There actually are plenty of outliers in Florida in terms of good school districts.
I suppose it depends on how you define good schools. My definition means: functional buildings, basics like soap, toilet paper, books and edible food provided; manageable class sizes and teachers who have bandwidth to actually teach kids, not just pass out materials and make kids study themselves.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 12:28
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.
I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.
Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.
Where are these states with no income tax and good public schools? Certainly not Florida - you need to send your DC to private school if you want a decent environment (i.e., soap and toilet paper).
There absolutely are good schools in Florida! I don’t understand how someone can think that in such a large state there aren’t any decent public school districts. How do you end up so ignorant and uneducated?
You have very low standards for education if you think this! I've lived in "good school districts" in FL, TX, KS, and CA. "Good" is relative to the terrible surrounding areas and is a euphemism for MC/UMC. Many of those kids do well because their parents get them tutoring or teach them on the side. The school doesn't do it or even provide the ratios and resources to enable this - the school simply starts with better students, so their scores are higher.
NP. This might be true, but if one parent is not working then teaching them on the side is not so unrealistic. Perhaps more critically, they can also supervise them more easily and prevent them from spending time with people who will be a bad influence / encourage positive relationships.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 08:56
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
100%. More to life than just high HHI. $350k with one SAHP can be a great life.
+1
Many people measure their personal value in $$$. There is more to life than $$ and the rat race that goes with it. High quality of life is not necessarily in $$. Success can be defined different ways.
I like to define it as overall health and balance. Most of our corperate leaders are over weight, unhealthy, small social circle outside of work, little time with family. This is definitely not for me!
Anonymous
05/16/2023 08:51
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.
I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.
Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.
Where are these states with no income tax and good public schools? Certainly not Florida - you need to send your DC to private school if you want a decent environment (i.e., soap and toilet paper).
There absolutely are good schools in Florida! I don’t understand how someone can think that in such a large state there aren’t any decent public school districts. How do you end up so ignorant and uneducated?
Your argument is a bit crass and rude. But anyway, let me explain this to you. There are very few outliers, Pineview comes to mind. Overall though, Florida public schools are underfunded. The teaching methods in Miami, the largest school district are antiquated - rote memorization, teachers just reading from slides, etc. Teachers are overworked and overwhelmed, yet underpaid. Some “excellent” schools have no soap and toilet paper (school that my friend’s DS attends, top school). The equipment is a joke - one functioning copy machine for a school of 1100 kids. Math books arriving months after school starts. Disintegrating furniture in the teacher’s offices (saw with my own eyes, absolutely shameful). This is from top schools, in terms of program and test scores. Yes - the kids learned a lot of material, but is it ok to have 35 kids in second grade? In a tiny classroom? No. It’s not. Is it ok for you, if your smart but quiet and well behaved DC gets ignored for years, because the teachers only pay attention to the ones who misbehave? Also, if your DC is used to MC or UMC diet at home, you’ll be packing lunch each day, because the lunch they serve isn’t what you’d want your DC to eat.
Here’s a link to the top 10 public school districts in Florida. St Johns is #1.
https://www.niche.com/k12/search/best-school-districts/s/florida/
These look good next to all the ones that fail. If you lower the education standards, if easier for the schools and kids to get over the hurdle and look good. If you compare mediocrity to something bad, it looks good. Hmm...
There are no good public schools. There are good private schools. There are good families that choose public schools and compensate. Both may have the same end result.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 08:11
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.
I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.
Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.
Where are these states with no income tax and good public schools? Certainly not Florida - you need to send your DC to private school if you want a decent environment (i.e., soap and toilet paper).
There absolutely are good schools in Florida! I don’t understand how someone can think that in such a large state there aren’t any decent public school districts. How do you end up so ignorant and uneducated?
Your argument is a bit crass and rude. But anyway, let me explain this to you. There are very few outliers, Pineview comes to mind. Overall though, Florida public schools are underfunded. The teaching methods in Miami, the largest school district are antiquated - rote memorization, teachers just reading from slides, etc. Teachers are overworked and overwhelmed, yet underpaid. Some “excellent” schools have no soap and toilet paper (school that my friend’s DS attends, top school). The equipment is a joke - one functioning copy machine for a school of 1100 kids. Math books arriving months after school starts. Disintegrating furniture in the teacher’s offices (saw with my own eyes, absolutely shameful). This is from top schools, in terms of program and test scores. Yes - the kids learned a lot of material, but is it ok to have 35 kids in second grade? In a tiny classroom? No. It’s not. Is it ok for you, if your smart but quiet and well behaved DC gets ignored for years, because the teachers only pay attention to the ones who misbehave? Also, if your DC is used to MC or UMC diet at home, you’ll be packing lunch each day, because the lunch they serve isn’t what you’d want your DC to eat.
Here’s a link to the top 10 public school districts in Florida. St Johns is #1.
https://www.niche.com/k12/search/best-school-districts/s/florida/
DP: I wouldn't argue that there aren't good schools in a whole state, but I also wouldn't use niche. com as a reliable source. Or Greatschools. You have to drill down and look at more factors.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 08:00
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.
I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.
Agree with the above. In fact we are contemplating this right now. Currently around 550k HHI with 1 in private and another one about to start private in a high income tax state (CA), with an Au Pair. We have run the numbers and it would be financially feasible and potential better for our quality of life to move to a state with no income tax, I’d become a SAHP, send our kids to a good public, and my spouse (who works remote) would become the sole breadwinner on a 350k income.
Where are these states with no income tax and good public schools? Certainly not Florida - you need to send your DC to private school if you want a decent environment (i.e., soap and toilet paper).
There absolutely are good schools in Florida! I don’t understand how someone can think that in such a large state there aren’t any decent public school districts. How do you end up so ignorant and uneducated?
You have very low standards for education if you think this! I've lived in "good school districts" in FL, TX, KS, and CA. "Good" is relative to the terrible surrounding areas and is a euphemism for MC/UMC. Many of those kids do well because their parents get them tutoring or teach them on the side. The school doesn't do it or even provide the ratios and resources to enable this - the school simply starts with better students, so their scores are higher.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 07:54
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
You are trying to say that a 700k dual income household is the same as a 350k single income household?
No way. This is so far from the reality.
I'm saying it's not that different from a 1 earner $350k and public school vs. 2 earners, $750k and taxes and private schools.
And I think you’re right. I quit my biglaw counsel job and our finances are basically exactly the same as before. After income taxes, convenience taxes, childcare, commuting costs, etc, we are almost exactly where we started.
Not a “numerically-challenged SAHM.” This is just our reality.
You are numerically-challenged because you don’t realize that expensive childcare is short-term expense (unless you keep popping out brats every 5 years to justify your existence) whereas retirement and other savings compound in the long-term.
Also, if your entire salary was eaten up by the things you mentioned, either you were paid crap, or you budgeted like crap.
You are nasty. Good grief.
+1
I think anonymity brings out the worst facet of some people. PP is a disgusting person, but they probably know that too.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 07:24
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
100%. More to life than just high HHI. $350k with one SAHP can be a great life.
In DC the person who wrote this prob also has a $5M tax free inheritance coming her way...
Anonymous
05/16/2023 06:58
Subject: Re:Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I make around $310K and my husband makes around $325, but will monetize his promotion in January and probably make closer to $400K. When I've wanted a higher HHI in the past, which is reasonable because we have three kids and live in a HCOL area, I've asked for promotions and at the same time also hustled for better paying jobs. Since I graduated form grad school in 2015 I've jumped from making $71K to $95K (promotion) to $129K (job change) to $310K (job change) and I'm interviewing for a job right now that will pay around $435K. I may actually make more than my husband soon, which is something I never ever imagined! If you want something it's fair to talk to your spouse about getting a better paying job, but you also need to focus on getting promotions or better paying jobs. See how far you and your spouse can climb together, supporting one another. It's far easier to hustle for a better paying job than it is to get a divorce and search for someone who makes the equivalent salary to you.
Constant job-hopping is such a red flag that I don’t know why employers hire any of you people. I can’t fault anyone for trying to improve themselves, but as an employer, I’d say, “God bless, but you’re not going to pull that nonsense on my dime.”
Three job changes in eight years is not a red flag, grandpa. Especially if you have SME in an in-demand area.
DP - You underestimate the value of real experience, because you're too green and too ambitious for your boots. Anyone can spout back how to milk a cow in theory - how many people can actually come back with a bucket of milk when put to do it? Not many, I assure you. I agree with PP, your deficiencies will be noticed and bridges burned leaving you cold if you keep that up. Good luck!
Anonymous
05/16/2023 06:51
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:It does sound stupid.
If you made $700k by yourself those homes would be within reach.
Ooh, i can do math too! Then if you make 1.4M a bunch of other homes would be in reach, and even more if you make 2.8M. It never ends, we can always look up.... except maybe if you're rupert murdoch, then maybe there limits to looking up.
Anonymous
05/16/2023 06:47
Subject: Sole breadwinner 350k/yr
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes but then $175k of that $350k would go to taxes and another $75-$100k for childcare. A lot of the rest would be eaten up by other outsourcing and buying more clothes, dry cleaning and communing costs. Your lifestyle wouldn’t be much better, and you’d just have two stressed out overworked parents.
75-100k for childcare?! When we did this we had an au pair and part time preschool. It was way less than that even counting pre-tax.
NP but this is unfortunately easily doable if you opt for expensive but not outrageous options. our last year for 4 and 1 yo: 65k+ nanny salary and nanny taxes. 16K morning pre-K for older DC during school year, 4K morning summer camp for older DC.
Sure, but most people don’t need 55hrs a week of childcare. Our peak Weald an Aupair which cost us all in 30k and part time preschool through a local church for about $600/mo. We threw in a few summer camps for another 5k.
Spending what you describe is bananas. Not all high earning dual income families need outrageously long childcare hours.
Right, but you have described 40k in annual childcare expenses, then add commuting, outsourcing household work etc and you are probably still spending more than half of one take home salary on that stuff (if you’re both in the 300s).
GMAFB. Commuting and outsourcing household work cost you more than $100k?
DP - our nanny cost 100k. She also did laundry, driving, light house work, and pet care when we were gone. Then we had weekly cleaners and a lawn service. There is also 2 lunches out everyday (who wants to bring a sack lunch when you're an adult? No one in my office does). There are more costs than you think. Sure it can be done cheaper, but realistically, no one really does if they fit into their work culture.