Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with everything the poster up thread said in his outlined reasons. I’ll also add Black popular culture, street level culture, glorifies violence and rage. It’s a vicious cycle, with people justifying listening to this music (and driving obnoxious loud engine cars or atvs though neighborhood streets) because they’re bored/pissed off at the racist world/lacking opportunities. But it just makes them more bitter and antisocial. We’re looking to leave our neighborhood because the gulf between law abiding, friendly neighbors and antisocial criminals has gotten way out of whack. We’re moderate dems who used to consider ourselves liberals.

You’re not a progressive and I seriously doubt you’re a moderate Dem, either. You just sound 100% like a typical Trump supporter.

Comments like this are so not helpful. Democrats are absolutely allowed to notice certain cultural tendencies. They absolutley are allowed not to like/want to live among certain anti-social cultures.

This conversation absolutely needs to be had and it does no one any good when you automatically try to shut it down by saying the poster is a Trump supporter. No good at all.

Ok, if you say so…. But fair warning then - if what you’re posting is indistinguishable from something a typical trumper might say - and in this case it is - then you better expect some pushback.

I think you need to do some serious introspection if you’re agreeing with or saying things that sound like a trumper would say.

Anonymous wrote:Look up how NYC became safer in the 90s

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We see the same thing playing out over all major metropolitan areas in the U.S. It's the lack of consequences due to increasing efforts to reduce sentencing for lower level crimes. It used to be play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Now the stupid prizes are less stupid...a slap on the wrist, return to custody of parents, instead of juvenile hall or incarceration for the older offenders. If someone knows all they're going to get is chewed out, that's a risk worth taking in their eyes. The whole reason why there's reduced sentencing is because of the collateral damage. Yes you get more public safety with the older, harsher policies, but a lot of people who could have been rehabilitated got lumped in with the lifers.

It's also increasingly harder for police to do their jobs. It used to be criminals were not that brazen, now they actively challenge police in routine situations because with social media they know the whole social justice piece will bail them out if things go south. There shouldn't be use of excessive force in the first place, but suspects are really aggressive now and forcing officers to choose between their own safety vs suspects, which is bad because police officers often panic and go too aggressive as well leading to a really bad outcome. There are also fewer recruits, more turnover, leading to overall loss of headcount and resources, which spreads police thin and makes it difficult to project presence. Why would someone sign up to be a police officer now when there are other jobs that don't have that much risk of going to jail.

And then there's the other piece that has led to the demise or stagnation of many historical civilizations - an increasing divide between the top 1% and bottom 30% with a hollowing out of the middle. If a large portion of the population feels they don't have anything to lose or anything to live for, they're going to take outsized risks and basically DGAF about anything, which begets the whole play stupid games behavior. Welfare, universal income, direct subsidies aren't going to solve anything because they don't teach anyone to fish or consume their time. We need stuff similar to the New Dealish CCC and WPA, but there's no economic need or political will for that.

No easy solutions to a multi-faceted problem.

I agree with you that the income inequality gap is the root cause.

Howver, the police are at the same time out of control. The amount of bad behavior, no consequences, shoot first, outright lying, and general disinterest in their actual job is troubling to say the least.

This is the PP. I agree some portions of certain police forces are out of control now, but I feel like that may be in response to the suspect population feeling more empowered to be brazen (not justifying it, just an observation). However, there are now consequences for the police bad behavior, which is why I think we have disinterest and staffing shortages, which can foster an environment where more crime occurs.

Your post relies on the assumption that police want to act with impunity, and that shortages are the result of police being held accountable.

THAT is part of the problem with police shortages right now. It’s the assumption, from some people and from some local politicians, that the police are inherently bad. The truth is MCPD has always been a well-run department that held itself to higher standards than most departments nationwide. The low morale experienced by MCPD right now has nothing to do with supposed bad behaviors being curbed and everything to do with false perceptions. Would you want to go to work when you have good intentions, yet your own council member refers to you as “thugs” and “goons”?

Who on the Council called police “thugs” and “goons?”