Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y’all laugh but there are actually people who think this: https://www.financialsamurai.com/400k-income/

I believe this is 400k PRETAX.

And it makes sense that people who make this type of money pretax feel middle class.

Most upper middle class Americans want an UPPER CLASS Lifestyle on an UPPER MIDDLE CLASS INCOME. Furthermore, most upper middle class people rely and only have a W2 income. Upper class people do not. Upper middle class people tend to congregate and socialize with upper class people so they get an up close and personal view of what an upper class lifestyle and habits look like.

They then try to adopt that same lifestyle not realizing there is only so much you can afford on an upper middle class income. Upper middle class and upper class are not and will never be the same. Last but not least, most upper middle class people live paycheck to paycheck.

Lol

Assuming you define "paycheck to paycheck" as spending all of one paycheck, sure, maybe. But for many/most in DCUM that means after maxing their retirement accounts, contributing to 529s, saving for vacations, saving for home repairs, paying for multiple kids activities. Not your regular "paycheck to paycheck" definition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Y’all laugh but there are actually people who think this: https://www.financialsamurai.com/400k-income/

I believe this is 400k PRETAX.

And it makes sense that people who make this type of money pretax feel middle class.

Most upper middle class Americans want an UPPER CLASS Lifestyle on an UPPER MIDDLE CLASS INCOME. Furthermore, most upper middle class people rely and only have a W2 income. Upper class people do not. Upper middle class people tend to congregate and socialize with upper class people so they get an up close and personal view of what an upper class lifestyle and habits look like.

They then try to adopt that same lifestyle not realizing there is only so much you can afford on an upper middle class income. Upper middle class and upper class are not and will never be the same. Last but not least, most upper middle class people live paycheck to paycheck.

Lol

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with pp posting about how the middle class largely struggles. Plenty of people out there who are teachers, nurses, municipal employees, etc doing just fine on a 100-200k hhi

I'm the poster that talked about how the middle class struggles. But I'll clarify. I've lived in a few different places around the world, including one in which we had no running water and no electricity. I watched people struggle, really struggle, not what many define as struggling. I've watched mothers hold their babies dying of malnutrition or dehydration. When a family makes more than 90K a year total, they're in the top 10% of the world in terms of income. If a family makes more than 173K they are in the top 10% of the U.S. So, while historically, my two teacher family would be considered middle class mostly because of our profession, we are in the top 10% of the entire U.S. We are not middle class. We make a LOT of money. A LOT.

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with pp posting about how the middle class largely struggles. Plenty of people out there who are teachers, nurses, municipal employees, etc doing just fine on a 100-200k hhi

Yes, thank you. We’re solid middle class. To me, struggling middle class is LMC.

Anonymous wrote:Y’all laugh but there are actually people who think this: https://www.financialsamurai.com/400k-income/

I believe this is 400k PRETAX.

And it makes sense that people who make this type of money pretax feel middle class.

Most upper middle class Americans want an UPPER CLASS Lifestyle on an UPPER MIDDLE CLASS INCOME. Furthermore, most upper middle class people rely and only have a W2 income. Upper class people do not. Upper middle class people tend to congregate and socialize with upper class people so they get an up close and personal view of what an upper class lifestyle and habits look like.

They then try to adopt that same lifestyle not realizing there is only so much you can afford on an upper middle class income. Upper middle class and upper class are not and will never be the same. Last but not least, most upper middle class people live paycheck to paycheck.

Disagree with pp posting about how the middle class largely struggles. Plenty of people out there who are teachers, nurses, municipal employees, etc doing just fine on a 100-200k hhi

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We literally can’t make ends meet on $1M HHI after paying for 3 kids at Beauvoir and our Kalorama mortgage.

Thanks for the laugh.

+1 I'm also feeling pretty cool because I knew what Beauvoir is. I did have to google Kalorama so clearly I'm one of the DCUM "poor."

Anonymous wrote:No, 500K is not middle class anywhere in the world.

Please remember that middle class means camping vacations, one very old car, a house that needs repairs, community college or an apprenticeship. Middle class means eating ALL meals at home except maybe going out once a week, it means making all your coffee at home, it means doing all your own cleaning, all your own yardwork. Middle class is kids who share bedrooms, buying some of your clothes new, really struggling to save money. Middle class folks really struggle. Their kids ride their bikes in the dark home from their jobs in high school. That's middle class.

Middle class is NOT: 2 new cars, vacations that involve airplanes, eating out often, hiring a 1x a week cleaner, a 500K home or a 500K income.

I feel like I’ve seen you post this theme before. While what you say has validity I also think there is a solid middle class that’s not struggling as you describe but meets most of your other criteria.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My monthly expenses for a family of four, 1.5mn modest outside beltway NoVa house, two cars.

Mortgage (PITI): 3,500
Utilities: 500
Cleaning and landscaping: 500
Daycare for kid no.2: 1000
Food: 2000
Kids activities for kid no.1: 1000
2 Car maintenance and gas: 500
529 saving: 1000
other expenses: 1000
Total: 9000

Our take home pay after maxing retirement, health insurance and group life insurance: 19,000
Monthly saving: 10,000 for vacations, house remodel, saving,
Gross HHI 350k

We are very fugal, but otherwise feel comfortable. If you can accept public school, 350k can get you there.

You spend $2000/month on food (!!!) and $1000/month on a child’s activities.

They save 10k/mo pus maxing 401ks..they are incredibly frugal...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My monthly expenses for a family of four, 1.5mn modest outside beltway NoVa house, two cars.

Mortgage (PITI): 3,500
Utilities: 500
Cleaning and landscaping: 500
Daycare for kid no.2: 1000
Food: 2000
Kids activities for kid no.1: 1000
2 Car maintenance and gas: 500
529 saving: 1000
other expenses: 1000
Total: 9000

Our take home pay after maxing retirement, health insurance and group life insurance: 19,000
Monthly saving: 10,000 for vacations, house remodel, saving,
Gross HHI 350k

We are very fugal, but otherwise feel comfortable. If you can accept public school, 350k can get you there.

You spend $2000/month on food (!!!) and $1000/month on a child’s activities.

They save 10k/mo pus maxing 401ks..they are incredibly frugal...

What they are is NOT middle class.

Kids can go community college, if both the parent and child can get past the egos. I know several who have gone from CC to become excellent docs, lawyers, engineers. Best value.

People on here are so incredibly out of touch, it’s wild to see. $500k is rich everywhere, especially in DC, even in NYC or SF it’s rich. You need to get out of your bubbles.

No, 500K is not middle class anywhere in the world.

Please remember that middle class means camping vacations, one very old car, a house that needs repairs, community college or an apprenticeship. Middle class means eating ALL meals at home except maybe going out once a week, it means making all your coffee at home, it means doing all your own cleaning, all your own yardwork. Middle class is kids who share bedrooms, buying some of your clothes new, really struggling to save money. Middle class folks really struggle. Their kids ride their bikes in the dark home from their jobs in high school. That's middle class.

Middle class is NOT: 2 new cars, vacations that involve airplanes, eating out often, hiring a 1x a week cleaner, a 500K home or a 500K income.

$36,000 a year, I mean.

This is a joke, right? We make $150K and feel solidly upper-middle class. If you make $500K and feel like money is tight, it doesn't mean you're not rich it just means you're spending too much. Daycare isn't $36,000 a month (especially not for preschoolers), no one needs a $2 million house, etc.