Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a small town cotillion. It’s not always a debutante ball. We just went to a dance every month. We wore a nice day dress, listened to a manners lesson, took a dance lesson, then danced with the other middle schoolers. No different than any other after school activity.

In the partner dance world, it’s very common for members of the lgbtq community to learn to both lead and follow. In dances, I’d occasionally dance with someone of the same gender. The teachers referred to leaders and followers for this reason. It was nbd.

Same here, I did Cotillion in Winston Salem NC. tons of middle class kids did. We all went to the same place_ Floretta Baylin Ballroom and Cotillion. Weekly dance class, one big final dance at a country club. This was middle school. None of us ever became debutantes or were members of a country club. It was fun. not sure if I will ever need to know how to waltz again though. And watching Bridgerton, I was one of the few of my friends who knew what a dance card was. its very very old school!

I think people are confusing cotillion and debutant balls.

We have blacks, Indians, Hispanics and Asians at our cotillion

PP here, I am very liberal and would love to send my kid to cotillion. But it definitely seems much more uptight/conservative/private school in DC.

Anonymous wrote:I went to a small town cotillion. It’s not always a debutante ball. We just went to a dance every month. We wore a nice day dress, listened to a manners lesson, took a dance lesson, then danced with the other middle schoolers. No different than any other after school activity.

In the partner dance world, it’s very common for members of the lgbtq community to learn to both lead and follow. In dances, I’d occasionally dance with someone of the same gender. The teachers referred to leaders and followers for this reason. It was nbd.

Same here, I did Cotillion in Winston Salem NC. tons of middle class kids did. We all went to the same place_ Floretta Baylin Ballroom and Cotillion. Weekly dance class, one big final dance at a country club. This was middle school. None of us ever became debutantes or were members of a country club. It was fun. not sure if I will ever need to know how to waltz again though. And watching Bridgerton, I was one of the few of my friends who knew what a dance card was. its very very old school!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No it’s not racist. It’s traditional. The lazy discourse that passes for intellectualism among self-loathing white liberals just assumes anything that isn’t radically post-modern is bad and racist. I happen to think that having some tradition is a good thing. Kids need structure and need norms. This is one way to do it. Might not work for everyone.

Isn’t it liberals who send their kids to cotillion

Not in my experience. The people I know who have done it are very conservative.

No. When was the last time you sent a kid to cotillion?

I haven't. Because the people I know who do are of a very different mindset than I am (i.e. super Republican).

Well if u sent your kids you see that is incorrect

Cotillion didn’t teach you how to write a simple sentence so what’s it really worth in the end?

Somebody mad when people don’t agree with them.. anger mgmt classes stat

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. OP here. I sent my kids. My oldest actually really enjoyed it. My youngest is doing it a little begrudgingly.

I really just sent them to learn how to handle themselves publicly and not stress when they sit down to a place setting with multiple spoons and forks. (That’s one example of why.) I felt like such an idiot the first time I had to attend formal dinners. Or having to greet adults.

I never had exposure to those things growing up but now I do.

But I was also listening to a podcast tonight coincidentally about how etiquette classes are racist. So thought I’d ask the community their opinion.

Why wouldn't you just teach them at home?

Why do people do anything? Different strokes for different folks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No it’s not racist. It’s traditional. The lazy discourse that passes for intellectualism among self-loathing white liberals just assumes anything that isn’t radically post-modern is bad and racist. I happen to think that having some tradition is a good thing. Kids need structure and need norms. This is one way to do it. Might not work for everyone.

Isn’t it liberals who send their kids to cotillion

Not in my experience. The people I know who have done it are very conservative.

No. When was the last time you sent a kid to cotillion?

I haven't. Because the people I know who do are of a very different mindset than I am (i.e. super Republican).

Well if u sent your kids you see that is incorrect

Cotillion didn’t teach you how to write a simple sentence so what’s it really worth in the end?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No it’s not racist. It’s traditional. The lazy discourse that passes for intellectualism among self-loathing white liberals just assumes anything that isn’t radically post-modern is bad and racist. I happen to think that having some tradition is a good thing. Kids need structure and need norms. This is one way to do it. Might not work for everyone.

Isn’t it liberals who send their kids to cotillion

Not in my experience. The people I know who have done it are very conservative.

No. When was the last time you sent a kid to cotillion?

I haven't. Because the people I know who do are of a very different mindset than I am (i.e. super Republican).

Well if u sent your kids you see that is incorrect

Anonymous wrote:If you must have a chip on your shoulders, sure, I guess. Just like anything can be twisted to be racist or classist or whatever. If you want to ban cotillons, you might as well get rid of Jack and Jill. The black communities have their own forms of classism and racism too.

If you're normal, it's just something some people like to do. Let and live.

Most Jack and Jill chapters have abandoned them except for a few southern ones, in trade for things more aligned to graduation, as opposed to introduction to society-- whatever that is. There are hundreds of Black organizations who did this, including Bachelor Benedict and any number of private clubs. Many of the clubs still exist, but mostly for adults. Huge picture of a black cotillion in the DC museum above the Apple Store downtown. Worth a visit.

My grandmother (who was very traditional) taught us proper manners - she would regularly do high tea at the Ritz with her grandkids. The moms who send their kids to cotillion at our school actually have pretty atrocious table manners, which always made me laugh. Modeling at home and out so much more important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No it’s not racist. It’s traditional. The lazy discourse that passes for intellectualism among self-loathing white liberals just assumes anything that isn’t radically post-modern is bad and racist. I happen to think that having some tradition is a good thing. Kids need structure and need norms. This is one way to do it. Might not work for everyone.

Isn’t it liberals who send their kids to cotillion

Not in my experience. The people I know who have done it are very conservative.

No. When was the last time you sent a kid to cotillion?

I haven't. Because the people I know who do are of a very different mindset than I am (i.e. super Republican).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not in and of itself racist. It is troubling and kind of distasteful, though. It has its roots in the traditions of a white, slaveholding class. It romanticizes that class and their traditions. That's kind of gross.

I live in Europe and the noble families here still do it. Everyone invited is not noble but you have to be from the "right" kind of family.

It's an excuse for rich people to throw a ball. Historically, they were "come out" balls for young women to be introduced to the marriage mart.

It's a bit gross.

Anonymous wrote:It's not in and of itself racist. It is troubling and kind of distasteful, though. It has its roots in the traditions of a white, slaveholding class. It romanticizes that class and their traditions. That's kind of gross.

I live in Europe and the noble families here still do it. Everyone invited is not noble but you have to be from the "right" kind of family.

Anonymous wrote:Very few are racially mixed. It’s a legacy of segregation.

+1. Same with country clubs.

Perhaps the answer depends (like most things) on the details of the program. I grew up in the Deep South in the 80s and 90s. Our cotillion was held at the local country club, which still “unofficially” denied membership to black people and Jewish people then. I was one of just a few kids from my (all white catholic school) who didn’t attend cotillion in the early 90s. My dad didn’t appreciate the racist policies of the country club so didn’t want to send me. The gender politics were really strict too—girls had to wear dresses to attend, and as a girl who hated dresses, I really didn’t want to go (I came out as a lesbian after leaving home, so there’s that too). Do I think all cotillions are inherently racist? I don’t know, but can say that the one in my hometown certainly has a troubled racial history that they’re not willing to examine.