EA acceptance rates are no better than RD acceptance rates at most colleges. Given that, how would it help OPs goal if W&M offered EA? Genuinely interested

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand these threads. If they can tell you what W&M will cost at time of application (via calculator, via promise that merit aid will be awarded in the same way), then applying ED is an option. If given that you still want to take your chances at getting into a better school, or getting an amazing aid package somewhere else, nothing stopping you. There's the conservative route, take a sure thing but never know what could have been. There's the riskier route, see what happens during RD, knowing the competition is greater. This is the same decision everyone makes, regardless of income level.

of course you understand these threads -always startled by someone whose kid didn’t get in so they want to bash

W&M loves demonstrated interest, it appears. It had ED decades ago too.

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Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

Reminds me of Penn State (technically private) where tuition alone is $20,000/year for instate students and there are no financial aid initiatives.

Penn State, like Temple and U of Pitrsburgh, are NOT private colleges/universities. They are "state-related."

They’re basically private and are not public.

They are public.

They do not publish a lot of data that the PASSHE schools must.

F course they do. It’s called SCHEV. No other state supplies such information

Anonymous wrote:Pp, how do you know your b point, that wm treats Ed and rd applicants the same? There are ppl on this thread who talk about likely differential treatment.

It’s just odd that there’s only one public in the country (as far as I know, Ed and no ea) to do what they’re doing. Maybe you work for wm or have a kid there, but it’s out of sync for a school that says that it wants to boost economic diversity.

I don't work for WM nor have a kid there--though have a kid who is a junior who is interested in applying to WM and LACs and so I have researched these things as we are not high income and she is considering where and whether to do ED. As for evidence for b point, the admitted applicant profile in GPA/SAT is consistently nearly identical for ED and RD (with often more students submitting test scores ED). So the odds may be better ED because they accept all students who meet their high standards for admitted applicants (providing they also meet their desires for ECs, quality recommendations etc), but the standards are the same. This is not true for many (but not all) private LACs where the admitted student profiles of ED students are somewhat lower, or there are more test optional applicants. Also, all private LACs do not necessarily make the statement that they treat ED and RD the same with regard to financial and merit aid.

WM is the only public who have a lot its students whose main alternative is a private liberal arts college--that's why it's out of sync in application processes compared to other publics, but it does everything "right" to make it an okay decision to choose ED even if you're low or middle income. It may make it a little harder for people with UMC incomes, but since W&M is the most expensive in-state public, they have no problem attracting those.

Anonymous wrote:Pp, how do you know your b point, that wm treats Ed and rd applicants the same? There are ppl on this thread who talk about likely differential treatment.

It’s just odd that there’s only one public in the country (as far as I know, Ed and no ea) to do what they’re doing. Maybe you work for wm or have a kid there, but it’s out of sync for a school that says that it wants to boost economic diversity.

William and Mary starting in Fall 2023 is covering tuition and fees for all in-state Pell Grant eligible students. They also publish exactly what expected tuition and fees are by income and tuition and fees are significantly lower for lower income families.

Pp, how do you know your b point, that wm treats Ed and rd applicants the same? There are ppl on this thread who talk about likely differential treatment.

It’s just odd that there’s only one public in the country (as far as I know, Ed and no ea) to do what they’re doing. Maybe you work for wm or have a kid there, but it’s out of sync for a school that says that it wants to boost economic diversity.

Anonymous wrote:UVA has ED but it doesn't help that much to ED. WM, on the other hand, is way easier to get in if you ED. And people have figured it out. Lots of pretty low stat kids (especially boys) at dc's school ED to WM and get in.

Lots of low stat kids? My, aren't you fancy!

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Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

Lots of publics on this list, OP. https://blog.prepscholar.com/early-decision-schools-and-colleges-complete-list

Op here. Where else is public besides Ramapo college of nj? (Also, at least ramapo offers early action. Find me another public that only offers ED and not EA. WM wouldn’t bug me so much if it offered EA but it doesn’t, which makes no sense as a public.

NP Other publics on that list are:
TCNJ
Christopher Newport
Miami U of OH
SUNY Maritime
SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry
Salisbury

Op again, so do any of those only do Ed and no ea? My point is that wm does two Ed rounds and zero ea. I bet all of the above have ea in addition to Ed, as does va tech, uva. Ed with no ea is the classist thing, I don’t care that you can estimate costs with the npc. Some of you are seriously out of touch…

Why? Seriously I am not understanding your complaint. And don't cite Avery or other researchers who are looking at this across many schools with many practices, but with W&M in particular that a) gives an accurate NPC so you know what it will cost, b) treats ED and RD applications the same with regards to application qualifications, financial aid, and merit aid.

This is so much more fair than how many schools use ED. How is this classist? What would EA add? They do ED because they want to predict yield. EA doesn't help with that. EA doesn't help the applicant either if they need to compare financial offers they have to wait until RD anyway all it does is let them know they got in early and yes, the NPC, is what they are getting. Merit aid comes out at the same time for all applicants so you won't know that before RD.

ED1 and ED2 are good strategies for the college in order to do the very important thing of keeping the correct balance of in-state and out of state students, ensuring they accept the right number of students to fill but not overfill their housing etc. ED2 is a particularly important strategy for W&M which --unlike most public schools--is primarily in competition with top SLACS for its top students and so it needs to align its application processes with those. There are of course some students who are UVA and WM are my top choices because they are the best in-state schools for me, but there are also a lot of students who are like Swarthmore or Williams or wherever is my dream school (ED1) and WM is the runner-up (ED2). This is just not true for most other public universities which don't need to follow how SLACs are handling admissions. A college that doesn't align itself with the admissions ecology of its competitors is going to become weaker over time--that's just the reality.

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Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

Lots of publics on this list, OP. https://blog.prepscholar.com/early-decision-schools-and-colleges-complete-list

Op here. Where else is public besides Ramapo college of nj? (Also, at least ramapo offers early action. Find me another public that only offers ED and not EA. WM wouldn’t bug me so much if it offered EA but it doesn’t, which makes no sense as a public.

NP Other publics on that list are:
TCNJ
Christopher Newport
Miami U of OH
SUNY Maritime
SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry
Salisbury

Op again, so do any of those only do Ed and no ea? My point is that wm does two Ed rounds and zero ea. I bet all of the above have ea in addition to Ed, as does va tech, uva. Ed with no ea is the classist thing, I don’t care that you can estimate costs with the npc. Some of you are seriously out of touch…

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand these threads. If they can tell you what W&M will cost at time of application (via calculator, via promise that merit aid will be awarded in the same way), then applying ED is an option. If given that you still want to take your chances at getting into a better school, or getting an amazing aid package somewhere else, nothing stopping you. There's the conservative route, take a sure thing but never know what could have been. There's the riskier route, see what happens during RD, knowing the competition is greater. This is the same decision everyone makes, regardless of income level.

+100

Anonymous wrote:It is outrageous that W&M, a public institution, only has early decision (not just one, but two ED dates) and no early action. The website says "While financial aid packaging at W&M will not be affected by applying Early Decision I or II, students who choose to apply early are making a commitment to attend W&M without having the opportunity to compare financial aid packages from other institutions. Therefore, if financial factors could impact your decision to attend W&M, Early Decision may not be the best choice."

Basically you have a state subsidized, taxpayer funded public institution that says upfront that they have two admissions tracks--one for rich kids who don't need to compare financial aid pkgs, and one for everyone else. What is the messaging to students from the get go?

W&M is the ONLY public (to my knowledge) institution in the country to have only ED and not any EA option. Very few publics have any ED. The other "public ivy" Miami U has ED and EA, as does UVA.

No wonder W&M lacks socioeconomic diversity. Contact your state delegate and demand better--our public state institutions should not be country clubs.

It's also problematic that UVA as a public institution even has an ED option. UVA always moans about how it lacks economic diversity...you'd think they'd understand that having a special track for full pay students is undermining their ability to consider everyone at the same time. (And yes, ED is linked with benefits, = 100 point boost on the SAT, see Christopher Avery from Harvard's research) Shameful.

OP, you should turn your post into a letter to the regents or a petition. I agree with you!

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Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

Reminds me of Penn State (technically private) where tuition alone is $20,000/year for instate students and there are no financial aid initiatives.

Penn State, like Temple and U of Pitrsburgh, are NOT private colleges/universities. They are "state-related."

They’re basically private and are not public.

They are public.

They do not publish a lot of data that the PASSHE schools must.

I will never understand these threads. If they can tell you what W&M will cost at time of application (via calculator, via promise that merit aid will be awarded in the same way), then applying ED is an option. If given that you still want to take your chances at getting into a better school, or getting an amazing aid package somewhere else, nothing stopping you. There's the conservative route, take a sure thing but never know what could have been. There's the riskier route, see what happens during RD, knowing the competition is greater. This is the same decision everyone makes, regardless of income level.

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Anonymous wrote:Both UVA and W&M want to go private LOL

UVa’s Law School and their Darden (MBA) business school already are private, taking no state funds at all.

They are controlled by the state and are public as much as the like to pretend they aren't. The governor and general assembly could decide tomorrow that they are now the Very Public Virginia School of law and relocate them to Danville and they would have no say at all.