Anonymous
03/15/2023 15:56
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:My experience w/elite private schools, high school or college, is: subjecting the students to stress, lots of it, is the main point. Accomplished professionals shoulder a great amount of stress. These students are on track to be very high achievers. They either shoulder that stress well or they don't rise to the pinnacle in their profession.
Lol you are way off. In my experience only one person from three class years(my year, the one above and below) landed in that world. Most are just mid level management types with about 3-4 who walked into the family business.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 15:16
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The pressure comes from parents. There are healthy and unhealthy pathways for kids to choose through all of these schools. It depends on the values and pressure they get from home.( I am a longtime Independent school teacher, administrator and parent. )
You all like to say that to blame parents for the unbearable situation these kids are in, while taking zero responsibility for what you do to contribute to it. I’m over here trying to keep my kid sane. I could care less how college pans out at this point.
I am really sorry that your dc is stressed. I teach at a university and there is no way to design a class so that it suits everyone unless all the students happen to be at exactly the same level. Normally there are always some students who are breezing through and could thrive on harder material, and there are students who are doing their best and still behind and not getting it. We usually aim for the middle majority, trying to challenge them to a reasonable level that is not overwhelming. In order to make the class easy for everyone, I would have to make the class too easy and unsatisfying for most of the class. I try and help the struggling ones as much as possible but they still have to take the same exams as everyone else. I advise my students who are stressed out to take courses of study that are suitable for them. For example, we always have a ton of premed students who are premed only because their parents expect this. Parents, please don’t do this to your kids. Some of these students would be so much better off following their true passions or attending a university that is a better fit for their personality and interests. This must be true for high school as well. Don’t pick a rigorous option just because you can. Know your kid.
I’m the pp and also an educator. While I agree with you, rigor is not the cause of stress for my child. It is a small handful of truly poor teachers combined with no transparency about where they stand (no AP classes, no college counselor meetings, no class rank, no gpa, no grade inflation…they have no idea how to even think about what colleges might be the right fit). As mentioned in another current thread, it is difficult to pull a child from a high school without causing major disruption, or I would have done so.
Even if it was rigor causing stress, the teachers directly advise the students which course level to take by subject. Parents are not consulted or even informed by the school until months later. So putting this on the parents for choosing an overly difficult course load that their child can’t academically or mentally handle is just inaccurate, at least at my kid’s independent.
Do you ask your child what courses they are signing up to take? Are they sworn to secrecy? Are you not allowed to contact their teachers? Parents might not be choosing courses at your school, but by your account, they are choosing to be ignorant of their children’s course load. As an educator, are you at least open to sharing this info with parents and if so, why wouldn’t you expect and demand the same from your child’s teachers?
Anonymous
03/15/2023 15:01
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:The claims about college admissions being "basically the same" from "less stressful schools" are anecdotal at best. No one has presented any concrete proof that I can see.
Because it is meant for a given kid, so you can't have data on that. But if you truly think the same kid will have drastically different college outcomes based on which private school he chooses, you are probably wrong.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 14:58
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m telling you, Burke, Field, SAES and a few others are the ultimate life hacks. If your kid can do well at these schools - with very little homework or intense pressure - they will get into the same colleges as the kids at “Big 5” schools. You’ll see sh**ty responses to this, but don’t let it alter you. Check out the schools that everyone disdains. Then, look at the universities that the top 10-15% of those classes get into. Then, determine if your kid could be in the top 15%. And if the answer is yes, you’ve figured out a complex problem and given your kids the gift of normalcy.
But can you get the same level of rigor/learning at these schools that you can at the higher-pressure schools, with the same level of preparedness for these colleges? Or is it not as good an education?
This is kind of a selfish question as my kid is torn between one of these schools and one of the high-pressure schools and we have to decide in 2 days...
Compare course catalogs and map out a possible path for your student. Can you achieve the likely course path at both schools?
Are you ok with them being in the middle of the pack or would you rather they are in a strong cohort at the top of a class?
The universal message on and off DCUM is that the strongest students at these schools get into great colleges and do well at those schools.
PP you're responding to. The coursework has many similarities - many of the same kinds of electives, same kind of block scheduling. I'm not gunning for DC to be at the top of any class regardless of where they go. I want them to have the best chance at a great learning experience that will open their mind to all kinds of interesting things and make them a passionate learner, not just someone cramming for a test and desperate for an A. The grades don't matter to me nearly as much as the experience, and how well it prepares them for college (again, whatever college ends up being right for them, not necessarily something someone says is a "top college").
That is how we felt too, and so we chose schools based on what the school had to offer our child all around with an appropriate level of emphasis on each (academics, arts, engagement in athletics, etc). We took the same approach with college and have been happy customers all around. When you look at my kid's "resume" it may seem like a ton of stress must have been involved, but oddly it wasn't a stressful experience, and I think the attitude is everything. Healthy mindset, happy life.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 14:57
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:My experience w/elite private schools, high school or college, is: subjecting the students to stress, lots of it, is the main point. Accomplished professionals shoulder a great amount of stress. These students are on track to be very high achievers. They either shoulder that stress well or they don't rise to the pinnacle in their profession.
Accomplished professionals in which industries and what kind of stress? In my experience this is true of big law, banking, and medicine. Half of my friends in these industries look over with envy at peers who earn just as much in other industries. Then they complain of feeling shackled to golden handcuffs, but they lack skills needed to transfer industries. Skills that are developed in school dances, athletics, hanging out with friends, watching movies and other activities. Add to that high rates of failing marriages in all 3 industries and by middle age, those career tracks look fairly unappealing even at the pinnacle. I’m on alumni committees for several “elite” schools. Too much stress is when you’re no longer making decisions by choice but rather out of fear, leading to a life that no longer looks like the one you want.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 14:17
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
My experience w/elite private schools, high school or college, is: subjecting the students to stress, lots of it, is the main point. Accomplished professionals shoulder a great amount of stress. These students are on track to be very high achievers. They either shoulder that stress well or they don't rise to the pinnacle in their profession.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 13:31
Subject: Re:How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Such a weird flex for parents to brag that their kids aren't stressed because they do all the things.
8/10 of these kids are living to please adults and will resent it down the road.
It is not a flex. I also said they didn’t do all of the things- certainly miss some social events due to their sport. I said that they prioritize sleep. That is one of the most important reasons they aren’t stressed, I think.
My kids don’t do these activities to please me. It is a super time consuming sport that is kind of a pain for parents, TBH.
I am also in healthcare. Kids are a mess of stress, as are many adults. There is not enough time spent sleeping, and way too much time spent on electronics/social media. Also too much marijuana (also my opinion).
Yes and sports/physical activity have enormous health and mental health benefits
Anonymous
03/15/2023 10:36
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
The claims about college admissions being "basically the same" from "less stressful schools" are anecdotal at best. No one has presented any concrete proof that I can see.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 10:34
Subject: Re:How much stress is too much stress?
With so much stress affecting both HS students and parents at these top schools, will the less stressful schools see more applicants ? Would most people say that the college admissions results for unhooked kids are basically the same regardless of if you go to the Big 3/5 vs the "less stressful schools"?
Anonymous
03/15/2023 09:34
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m telling you, Burke, Field, SAES and a few others are the ultimate life hacks. If your kid can do well at these schools - with very little homework or intense pressure - they will get into the same colleges as the kids at “Big 5” schools. You’ll see sh**ty responses to this, but don’t let it alter you. Check out the schools that everyone disdains. Then, look at the universities that the top 10-15% of those classes get into. Then, determine if your kid could be in the top 15%. And if the answer is yes, you’ve figured out a complex problem and given your kids the gift of normalcy.
But can you get the same level of rigor/learning at these schools that you can at the higher-pressure schools, with the same level of preparedness for these colleges? Or is it not as good an education?
This is kind of a selfish question as my kid is torn between one of these schools and one of the high-pressure schools and we have to decide in 2 days...
Compare course catalogs and map out a possible path for your student. Can you achieve the likely course path at both schools?
Are you ok with them being in the middle of the pack or would you rather they are in a strong cohort at the top of a class?
The universal message on and off DCUM is that the strongest students at these schools get into great colleges and do well at those schools.
PP you're responding to. The coursework has many similarities - many of the same kinds of electives, same kind of block scheduling. I'm not gunning for DC to be at the top of any class regardless of where they go. I want them to have the best chance at a great learning experience that will open their mind to all kinds of interesting things and make them a passionate learner, not just someone cramming for a test and desperate for an A. The grades don't matter to me nearly as much as the experience, and how well it prepares them for college (again, whatever college ends up being right for them, not necessarily something someone says is a "top college").
Anonymous
03/15/2023 09:27
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The pressure comes from parents. There are healthy and unhealthy pathways for kids to choose through all of these schools. It depends on the values and pressure they get from home.( I am a longtime Independent school teacher, administrator and parent. )
You all like to say that to blame parents for the unbearable situation these kids are in, while taking zero responsibility for what you do to contribute to it. I’m over here trying to keep my kid sane. I could care less how college pans out at this point.
I am really sorry that your dc is stressed. I teach at a university and there is no way to design a class so that it suits everyone unless all the students happen to be at exactly the same level. Normally there are always some students who are breezing through and could thrive on harder material, and there are students who are doing their best and still behind and not getting it. We usually aim for the middle majority, trying to challenge them to a reasonable level that is not overwhelming. In order to make the class easy for everyone, I would have to make the class too easy and unsatisfying for most of the class. I try and help the struggling ones as much as possible but they still have to take the same exams as everyone else. I advise my students who are stressed out to take courses of study that are suitable for them. For example, we always have a ton of premed students who are premed only because their parents expect this. Parents, please don’t do this to your kids. Some of these students would be so much better off following their true passions or attending a university that is a better fit for their personality and interests. This must be true for high school as well. Don’t pick a rigorous option just because you can. Know your kid.
I’m the pp and also an educator. While I agree with you, rigor is not the cause of stress for my child. It is a small handful of truly poor teachers combined with no transparency about where they stand (no AP classes, no college counselor meetings, no class rank, no gpa, no grade inflation…they have no idea how to even think about what colleges might be the right fit). As mentioned in another current thread, it is difficult to pull a child from a high school without causing major disruption, or I would have done so.
Even if it was rigor causing stress, the teachers directly advise the students which course level to take by subject. Parents are not consulted or even informed by the school until months later. So putting this on the parents for choosing an overly difficult course load that their child can’t academically or mentally handle is just inaccurate, at least at my kid’s independent.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 09:02
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m telling you, Burke, Field, SAES and a few others are the ultimate life hacks. If your kid can do well at these schools - with very little homework or intense pressure - they will get into the same colleges as the kids at “Big 5” schools. You’ll see sh**ty responses to this, but don’t let it alter you. Check out the schools that everyone disdains. Then, look at the universities that the top 10-15% of those classes get into. Then, determine if your kid could be in the top 15%. And if the answer is yes, you’ve figured out a complex problem and given your kids the gift of normalcy.
But can you get the same level of rigor/learning at these schools that you can at the higher-pressure schools, with the same level of preparedness for these colleges? Or is it not as good an education?
This is kind of a selfish question as my kid is torn between one of these schools and one of the high-pressure schools and we have to decide in 2 days...
Compare course catalogs and map out a possible path for your student. Can you achieve the likely course path at both schools?
Are you ok with them being in the middle of the pack or would you rather they are in a strong cohort at the top of a class?
The universal message on and off DCUM is that the strongest students at these schools get into great colleges and do well at those schools.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 07:41
Subject: How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:I’m telling you, Burke, Field, SAES and a few others are the ultimate life hacks. If your kid can do well at these schools - with very little homework or intense pressure - they will get into the same colleges as the kids at “Big 5” schools. You’ll see sh**ty responses to this, but don’t let it alter you. Check out the schools that everyone disdains. Then, look at the universities that the top 10-15% of those classes get into. Then, determine if your kid could be in the top 15%. And if the answer is yes, you’ve figured out a complex problem and given your kids the gift of normalcy.
But can you get the same level of rigor/learning at these schools that you can at the higher-pressure schools, with the same level of preparedness for these colleges? Or is it not as good an education?
This is kind of a selfish question as my kid is torn between one of these schools and one of the high-pressure schools and we have to decide in 2 days...
Anonymous
03/14/2023 20:51
Subject: Re:How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Strongest students I know, seemingly least stressed, are kids with significant sports time commitments. They seem to prioritize their time to get it all done and still get enough sleep. I think lack of sleep is a huge part of the stress kids are experiencing.
If the 3 hours in sports practice/match is replacing 3 hours that would have been spent on screens/social media than the sports is definitely better for eyes, brain, body, sleep, socialization, overall mental health
+1
It's not really the schools that are causes of stress. Social media use is a huge cause of stress and anxiety. Fixation on college and all the numbers/testing/grades required to get into certain schools also causes a lot of stress -- ignoring how much harder college admissions are. Kids feel that every little assessment is a huge deal because they're trying to reach some magical number rather than focusing on learning.
Anonymous
03/14/2023 20:44
Subject: Re:How much stress is too much stress?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would highly recommend SR!! I think the experience is kid dependent. If she is intense, I think that can/will continue. If not- I think she will also continue that way. At least- that has been my family’s experience. Good luck!!
Oh, OK. something for everyone kind of thing?
It’s not a huge number of girls per grade, but I think there is a lot to offer for a lot of different types of kids