Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 17:33     Subject: Re:Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
I find it annoying when sanctimonious parents here say, “I didn’t let my child apply to colleges we couldn’t afford.”

It’s not that hard—or should not be—to comprehend that some people apply to college hoping for merit aid. Merit aid can’t be predicted. Others hope for Tuition Exchange, which can’t be predicted. Yet others hope for scholarships, which can’t be predicted…see, a lot can’t be predicted.

Don’t bother mentioning the NPC, which is for two parents with W2s, and relates to FA.

OP, You can lay out the finances for your child and explain the situation.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 17:20     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Board scores matter A LOT in fields like law and medicine. Gpa vs reputation of undergrad school is not always indicative. High grade inflation at elite schools. A 3.8 at non-elite school means a lot more to me when I agree to accept grad students. And there are stellar profs at every university, who have to research and publish and may be at R2 or R3 or the non-academic world. And their students that they recommend are weighed highly in my decision.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 17:20     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:While I don't think you necessarily need to send your kid to the least expensive college they got into, it's pretty crazy to insist on send them to the highest ranked college they get into regardless of cost, especially when money really is an issue for you (and for most people it is) and when the school costs much more than other good options.

With college now in the rear view window in our family, what our kids (who attending highly ranked schools) are now seeing is that, with few exceptions, where they and their high school friends ended up going to college has had very little impact on their job opportunities or professional prospects as adults. In a nutshell, virtually all of their friends went to college, they all did fine, and it's not like you can now line them up in order of success as adults and find any correlation between that order and the ranking of the colleges they attended.



Great insight, thank you for posting this!
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 17:17     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:College prof here again, grad admissions look at 1. Gpa 2. Board scores 3. Letters of recommendation 4. Outstanding achievement as an undergrad either in reasearch, leadership, interning, community service 5. Whether the applicant's propsed graduate research agenda aligns with the university's offerings. The actual school your undergraduate degree is from means very little.


I'm a college prof too and mainly agree with this, but not 100%. We do think of GPA in relation to quality of undergrad institution. This is more at the edges than fine-grained distinctions though. If someone is coming from a school outside the top 80 or so national liberal arts colleges or top 150 or so colleges and universities, the evidence besides GPA needs to be particularly compelling and the GPA needs to be very high. And if someone is coming from a very strong school (say T30 in either category or a school known for being particularly rigorous in our major), that can outweigh a mediocre GPA.

This is in part due to our perception of the school and its rigor, but also goes into the letters of recommendation--the faculty at the very weak schools are not likely to be particularly active in the field and also may be less versed in what would constitute a very strong student so their letters carry less weight. Conversely the faculty at top schools are people whose work I am more likely to know and I know the caliber of students who have worked with them in the past, so their letters carry more weight.


I agree. You can either be a stand-out in a less well-known college, or a very good student in a well-known college. But either way, you need to achieve.

Now the question is: are the better-ranked institutions better training grounds for graduate studies?
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 16:56     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:College professor here. Your undergrad degree in 90 percent of careers means nothing. Save your money now and get the most prestigious masters/doctorate/law/nursing/business degree you can get into.


Understood, but do kids from better-ranked schools do better in the graduate school admission process? What do graduate schools look for in applicants?


My husband went to a very regional undergrad, had no work experience and was accepted to many top law schools graduated from University of Chicago. He had amazing grades and LSAT scores.


Law schools only care about LSAT scores. They don’t care so much where you went to u Redgrave, or your GPA at that school.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 15:56     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:College prof here again, grad admissions look at 1. Gpa 2. Board scores 3. Letters of recommendation 4. Outstanding achievement as an undergrad either in reasearch, leadership, interning, community service 5. Whether the applicant's propsed graduate research agenda aligns with the university's offerings. The actual school your undergraduate degree is from means very little.


I'm a college prof too and mainly agree with this, but not 100%. We do think of GPA in relation to quality of undergrad institution. This is more at the edges than fine-grained distinctions though. If someone is coming from a school outside the top 80 or so national liberal arts colleges or top 150 or so colleges and universities, the evidence besides GPA needs to be particularly compelling and the GPA needs to be very high. And if someone is coming from a very strong school (say T30 in either category or a school known for being particularly rigorous in our major), that can outweigh a mediocre GPA.

This is in part due to our perception of the school and its rigor, but also goes into the letters of recommendation--the faculty at the very weak schools are not likely to be particularly active in the field and also may be less versed in what would constitute a very strong student so their letters carry less weight. Conversely the faculty at top schools are people whose work I am more likely to know and I know the caliber of students who have worked with them in the past, so their letters carry more weight.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 15:38     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
College prof here again, grad admissions look at 1. Gpa 2. Board scores 3. Letters of recommendation 4. Outstanding achievement as an undergrad either in reasearch, leadership, interning, community service 5. Whether the applicant's propsed graduate research agenda aligns with the university's offerings. The actual school your undergraduate degree is from means very little.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 15:29     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^ I also have a neurotypical child who is a scrappy go-getter: she could go to any college and do well in life! However, since I'm offering any college he wants to my oldest, I feel I have to offer the same to my youngest.


I have the exact same dilemma. I would gladly pay $$$ for my youngest and even take out loans for her, because I know she'll make use of every single moment and opportunity and relationship at the school, and will also find a way to do all these things while minimizing additional expenses and working part-time. But my older kid has never taken advantage of any free activity or put any effort into anything aside from pay-to-play sports, and he has never earned a penny. But I too feel I have to offer them both the same budget. It's really not fair.


Just to clarify, they both have the same 4.0 GPA, that's why I feel like I have to treat them fairly.


Don't take out loans for them. Give them the same amount of money and make it conditional that they have to work part-time to pay for some living expenses.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 15:26     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:We are on the verge of making a decision with our graduating HS senior, and he has many offers with varying merit aid offers (mostly public, but some privates) and because money is an issue for us, we would of course like him to attend the school that costs us the least over 4 years. Yes, these schools all offer different majors and school atmosphere and all that, but at the end of the day we as parents look at it like our child needs to make the best out of whatever situation they are being given, and if one school offers him a great package because he worked hard in HS and got great grades and besides it was him who chose to apply to these schools in the first place (even if some of these were likelies or safeties or whatever) he should attend whatever helps us pay the least. I'm not sure he necessarily sees it that way, but I'm also not sure it should be up to him to decide since he's not paying $ for it. Keeping in mind he's the oldest and we will have two kids behind him, one in college at the same time, I really need to set this expectation that college is what you put into it, wherever you go, but I'm not sure kids these days are being told that. I'm really asking this question not for those who have saved for college in full, but for anyone who is not... did you ever make this decision with your child and how did that go?


OP, my kids aren't quite there yet, but I was in a similar situation to your DS and YES, I wish I had attended a cheaper option. I wish my parents had set their foot down and not co-signed private loans to enable me to do so. Just a poor decision by me and them, had I just graduated with federal loans (which I still would have needed with the cheapest option) it would have been more manageable and given me more freedom in my 20s/early 30s. I was also the oldest, my parents did a better job steering my middle sibling with some tough love, although that sibling was very resentful at the time.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 15:13     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think setting that expectation was the job for two years ago. Did you give your student a budget? Do other schools fall within that budget?

I think you are setting yourself up for a lot of resentment if you say “Great job getting those merit scholarships to Welcoming SLAC and Awesome Flagship, but Dad and I decided you are going to Last Choice Safety. Hey, you picked that school to add to your list (after we insisted you needed a safety), so really, this was your choice.”


I agree with this. Making him attend the lowest price one seems like a bait and switch to me.

Choosing a college is a person's first adult choice. I think it's important that the student and not the parents make that choice, because then the student experiences the consequences, good and bad. If it doesn't go well, he cannot come back and blame you.


Can’t really be their choice alone if they are not footing the bill. I might not make final decision but I expect to be involved in the decision making process. Bot Both our kids know that money is a factor…we have also been clear about that…so they will be doing to the best school that fits the budget.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 13:15     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think setting that expectation was the job for two years ago. Did you give your student a budget? Do other schools fall within that budget?

I think you are setting yourself up for a lot of resentment if you say “Great job getting those merit scholarships to Welcoming SLAC and Awesome Flagship, but Dad and I decided you are going to Last Choice Safety. Hey, you picked that school to add to your list (after we insisted you needed a safety), so really, this was your choice.”


I agree with this. Making him attend the lowest price one seems like a bait and switch to me.

Choosing a college is a person's first adult choice. I think it's important that the student and not the parents make that choice, because then the student experiences the consequences, good and bad. If it doesn't go well, he cannot come back and blame you.


But that's really the whole points right? It's NOT their choice because it's not their money! Making decisions on your own starts with putting something of yours on the line.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 13:07     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:College professor here. Your undergrad degree in 90 percent of careers means nothing. Save your money now and get the most prestigious masters/doctorate/law/nursing/business degree you can get into.


Understood, but do kids from better-ranked schools do better in the graduate school admission process? What do graduate schools look for in applicants?


I got into Ivy grad from a CTCL (I hear the shuddering starting). Graduated Phi Beta Kappa, had great teacher recs, and had some impressive one of a kind work experiences in the international arena. GPA and test scores really matter - so do the best one can! - and the rest helps grease it.


My DC is in grad school at MIT and went to a CTCL for undergrad, where they had excellent research opportunities including in Europe. DC presented a few research papers at conferences including after graduating.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 13:06     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:College professor here. Your undergrad degree in 90 percent of careers means nothing. Save your money now and get the most prestigious masters/doctorate/law/nursing/business degree you can get into.


Understood, but do kids from better-ranked schools do better in the graduate school admission process? What do graduate schools look for in applicants?


My husband went to a very regional undergrad, had no work experience and was accepted to many top law schools graduated from University of Chicago. He had amazing grades and LSAT scores.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 12:53     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:College professor here. Your undergrad degree in 90 percent of careers means nothing. Save your money now and get the most prestigious masters/doctorate/law/nursing/business degree you can get into.


Understood, but do kids from better-ranked schools do better in the graduate school admission process? What do graduate schools look for in applicants?


Yes, how do podunk grads get into ivies/top schools?


DP: By standing out and getting a lot of opportunities at that school. While by the numbers, top schools admit students from the top programs, they don't want to take all their students from the same 10 schools. So if a kid from a lower ranked SLAC, or flagship from a state that's less known shines--with great GPA, great test scores, and recommendations from professors that can say this student is among the top 1% I've ever worked with--they've got as good a chance as if they went to the better school. Given how competitive academia is, the professors at these schools--as long as it's a national liberal arts college or a major state u--still got their PhDs from top universities and are active in their fields so their word counts. Most faculty will assume that the kid went to the lower ranked school on a scholarship (and this is listed in their vita) or went to the in-state public for financial reasons and that adds to their appeal--or at least doesn't count against it.


Come on. You know the bolded isn't always, or even mostly, true. But I agree that a "little pond, big fish" scenario can work in an applicant's favor.


Well of course it isn't ALWAYS true, though I do think it's mostly true (as I stated). If a kid does really well at the lower ranked school to be in the top % and earns a lot of accolades and then gets top test scores that these grad schools require, I would assume that most faculty assume (though I could be wrong) that the kid was from a middle class background and chose their undergrad school based on financial reasons--especially if the scholarship they received is listed on their application vita. That's what I would assume looking at this scenario. But I could be wrong of course.
Anonymous
Post 03/10/2023 12:27     Subject: Looking back, do you wish your child attended the least expensive college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^ I also have a neurotypical child who is a scrappy go-getter: she could go to any college and do well in life! However, since I'm offering any college he wants to my oldest, I feel I have to offer the same to my youngest.


I have the exact same dilemma. I would gladly pay $$$ for my youngest and even take out loans for her, because I know she'll make use of every single moment and opportunity and relationship at the school, and will also find a way to do all these things while minimizing additional expenses and working part-time. But my older kid has never taken advantage of any free activity or put any effort into anything aside from pay-to-play sports, and he has never earned a penny. But I too feel I have to offer them both the same budget. It's really not fair.


Just to clarify, they both have the same 4.0 GPA, that's why I feel like I have to treat them fairly.