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Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

Outcomes for VCU Arts are shitty

Outcomes for ALL art schools are shitty! I’m the mom with the kid who likes VCU. I should be clear. She’s a Junior, so we haven’t even applied. I dont even know if she would get in to the art program. I was saying that being at the art school would make me feel like she was in a well ranking program. But YES! I have several degrees in the arts, and I have always made nowhere as much money as my husband, who is in tech.

I did say—well—if you do want to study art and you got in, there would be plenty of money and time left over to double major. She also really likes physics. And with all of her AP credits, she could probably graduate with both degrees in 5 years. CS would take longer. I would never be able to afford for her to take all that time at a really expensive school. It might not be physics. I don’t really care. Just something she can either go to grad school for or make a decent living with.

+1 This is how I feel for my kid too. Strong academically but also really loves art and wants to go to art school (Freshman now so even further from reality). I like VCU as an option for the same reason--but I don't think you can casually double major right? She would have to do a BFA and a BS? I think mine would like the tech side of art (e.g., kinetic imaging at VCU or creative technologies at VT) and CS. Both of these schools are relatively inexpensive so I wouldn't mind if it took longer to complete.

My husband went to Tech and hated it, so that would be a no go for us, and she needs to be in a really liberal environment because of gender stuff, or I would say Tech probably has some great programs. That's one reason VCU would be good for her--very liberal and queer friendly. But it's not like it's the ONLY liberal urban school in a medium sized city. It just happens to be in state, which is nice.

I'm pretty sure there was a recent thread where people were discussing programs that combined art and computer science. VCU really doesn't seem to have this, although you can double major, but you're right that I don't think they really make it easy--which is kind of weird? You would think they would, since the two complement one another so well.

I don't think the kinetic imaging program is REALLY geared toward any practical aspects of mixing tech and art. I was specifically told it was more focused on gallery art. It does seem sort of open ended, so maybe they would be more open to you double dipping? But I don't know enough about the programs yet to judge.

However, other majors, like physics, applied math, accounting, statistics....actually seem surprisingly easy to complete in 5 years if you've accumulated enough AP credits going in. Now, what you would do with your double major in art and physics, I am not sure. Or art and accounting? You give up and go to law school, probably? Or grad school for physics, if someone will have you?

I’m the PP that asked about the outcomes from VCUArts. I’m curious when your dd went on college visits did the art programs, including the one at the more selective school, discuss internships and jobs?

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Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

Outcomes for VCU Arts are shitty

Outcomes for ALL art schools are shitty! I’m the mom with the kid who likes VCU. I should be clear. She’s a Junior, so we haven’t even applied. I dont even know if she would get in to the art program. I was saying that being at the art school would make me feel like she was in a well ranking program. But YES! I have several degrees in the arts, and I have always made nowhere as much money as my husband, who is in tech.

I did say—well—if you do want to study art and you got in, there would be plenty of money and time left over to double major. She also really likes physics. And with all of her AP credits, she could probably graduate with both degrees in 5 years. CS would take longer. I would never be able to afford for her to take all that time at a really expensive school. It might not be physics. I don’t really care. Just something she can either go to grad school for or make a decent living with.

+1 This is how I feel for my kid too. Strong academically but also really loves art and wants to go to art school (Freshman now so even further from reality). I like VCU as an option for the same reason--but I don't think you can casually double major right? She would have to do a BFA and a BS? I think mine would like the tech side of art (e.g., kinetic imaging at VCU or creative technologies at VT) and CS. Both of these schools are relatively inexpensive so I wouldn't mind if it took longer to complete.

My husband went to Tech and hated it, so that would be a no go for us, and she needs to be in a really liberal environment because of gender stuff, or I would say Tech probably has some great programs. That's one reason VCU would be good for her--very liberal and queer friendly. But it's not like it's the ONLY liberal urban school in a medium sized city. It just happens to be in state, which is nice.

I'm pretty sure there was a recent thread where people were discussing programs that combined art and computer science. VCU really doesn't seem to have this, although you can double major, but you're right that I don't think they really make it easy--which is kind of weird? You would think they would, since the two complement one another so well.

I don't think the kinetic imaging program is REALLY geared toward any practical aspects of mixing tech and art. I was specifically told it was more focused on gallery art. It does seem sort of open ended, so maybe they would be more open to you double dipping? But I don't know enough about the programs yet to judge.

However, other majors, like physics, applied math, accounting, statistics....actually seem surprisingly easy to complete in 5 years if you've accumulated enough AP credits going in. Now, what you would do with your double major in art and physics, I am not sure. Or art and accounting? You give up and go to law school, probably? Or grad school for physics, if someone will have you?

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Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

Outcomes for VCU Arts are shitty

Outcomes for ALL art schools are shitty! I’m the mom with the kid who likes VCU. I should be clear. She’s a Junior, so we haven’t even applied. I dont even know if she would get in to the art program. I was saying that being at the art school would make me feel like she was in a well ranking program. But YES! I have several degrees in the arts, and I have always made nowhere as much money as my husband, who is in tech.

I did say—well—if you do want to study art and you got in, there would be plenty of money and time left over to double major. She also really likes physics. And with all of her AP credits, she could probably graduate with both degrees in 5 years. CS would take longer. I would never be able to afford for her to take all that time at a really expensive school. It might not be physics. I don’t really care. Just something she can either go to grad school for or make a decent living with.

+1 This is how I feel for my kid too. Strong academically but also really loves art and wants to go to art school (Freshman now so even further from reality). I like VCU as an option for the same reason--but I don't think you can casually double major right? She would have to do a BFA and a BS? I think mine would like the tech side of art (e.g., kinetic imaging at VCU or creative technologies at VT) and CS. Both of these schools are relatively inexpensive so I wouldn't mind if it took longer to complete.

My husband went to Tech and hated it, so that would be a no go for us, and she needs to be in a really liberal environment because of gender stuff, or I would say Tech probably has some great programs. That's one reason VCU would be good for her--very liberal and queer friendly. But it's not like it's the ONLY liberal urban school in a medium sized city. It just happens to be in state, which is nice.

I'm pretty sure there was a recent thread where people were discussing programs that combined art and computer science. VCU really doesn't seem to have this, although you can double major, but you're right that I don't think they really make it easy--which is kind of weird? You would think they would, since the two complement one another so well.

I don't think the kinetic imaging program is REALLY geared toward any practical aspects of mixing tech and art. I was specifically told it was more focused on gallery art. It does seem sort of open ended, so maybe they would be more open to you double dipping? But I don't know enough about the programs yet to judge.

However, other majors, like physics, applied math, accounting, statistics....actually seem surprisingly easy to complete in 5 years if you've accumulated enough AP credits going in. Now, what you would do with your double major in art and physics, I am not sure. Or art and accounting? You give up and go to law school, probably? Or grad school for physics, if someone will have you?

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Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

Outcomes for VCU Arts are shitty

Outcomes for ALL art schools are shitty! I’m the mom with the kid who likes VCU. I should be clear. She’s a Junior, so we haven’t even applied. I dont even know if she would get in to the art program. I was saying that being at the art school would make me feel like she was in a well ranking program. But YES! I have several degrees in the arts, and I have always made nowhere as much money as my husband, who is in tech.

I did say—well—if you do want to study art and you got in, there would be plenty of money and time left over to double major. She also really likes physics. And with all of her AP credits, she could probably graduate with both degrees in 5 years. CS would take longer. I would never be able to afford for her to take all that time at a really expensive school. It might not be physics. I don’t really care. Just something she can either go to grad school for or make a decent living with.

+1 This is how I feel for my kid too. Strong academically but also really loves art and wants to go to art school (Freshman now so even further from reality). I like VCU as an option for the same reason--but I don't think you can casually double major right? She would have to do a BFA and a BS? I think mine would like the tech side of art (e.g., kinetic imaging at VCU or creative technologies at VT) and CS. Both of these schools are relatively inexpensive so I wouldn't mind if it took longer to complete.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

Outcomes for VCU Arts are shitty

Outcomes for ALL art schools are shitty! I’m the mom with the kid who likes VCU. I should be clear. She’s a Junior, so we haven’t even applied. I dont even know if she would get in to the art program. I was saying that being at the art school would make me feel like she was in a well ranking program. But YES! I have several degrees in the arts, and I have always made nowhere as much money as my husband, who is in tech.

I did say—well—if you do want to study art and you got in, there would be plenty of money and time left over to double major. She also really likes physics. And with all of her AP credits, she could probably graduate with both degrees in 5 years. CS would take longer. I would never be able to afford for her to take all that time at a really expensive school. It might not be physics. I don’t really care. Just something she can either go to grad school for or make a decent living with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

Outcomes for VCU Arts are shitty

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

Outcomes for VCU Arts are shitty

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.

VCU has one of the best fine arts program in the country. One way to look at it is if your child is going to major in art, it’s a much better financial decision to go to a top program for in-state rates …and likely merit on top. I wold also hope that VCU Arts prepares students to be working professionals in that field. Have you been to accepted student events?

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Anonymous wrote:my kid was in that situation last year and picked the lower ranked school and I have never seen them so happy. They have friends who decided to go the other route and many are miserable.

Pick the school that is right for you, not your parents, not so you can say you went to XYZ. happiness and health over quality of education every time.

I agree happiness and health are major factors but why assume that the education is that different at a school ranked 60 vs 30? Unless you are looking at a niche program it likely isn’t for undergrad.

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Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

But don’t the bottom third at Harvard who graduated have a diploma from Harvard too?
I think this applies to HS for sure but not elite institution full of 18-22 yr olds. My parent graduated from an elite college, bottom third, went to a “less impressive” masters got a 4.0 there went to get a PhD then started their own tech firm in the 80s. It went well. They ended up as or more successful than anyone else from their undergrad institution. So that story of the bottom third “from anywhere” can be bogus.

The Malcolm Gladwell talk/data is specifically about persisting in difficult STEM majors. And it included data from top ranked schools. If you are in the bottom third at Harvard, yes, you still have a Harvard degree but maybe it's English not STEM. And, maybe that's fine with you. But if you wanted to be a doctor, for example, you'd be better off going to the school where you can be in the top tier and be able to stay on that path.

Well that example above still holds since my parent was a stem major. Electrical Engineering and physics. Funny.

I get what you are staying but there is also something to be said for being around peers who challenge you and being on a cohort of highly able people. If you are ranking people in an elite stem program some people have to be in the bottom third even if they are all exceptional compared to the “average” person.

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Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

But don’t the bottom third at Harvard who graduated have a diploma from Harvard too?
I think this applies to HS for sure but not elite institution full of 18-22 yr olds. My parent graduated from an elite college, bottom third, went to a “less impressive” masters got a 4.0 there went to get a PhD then started their own tech firm in the 80s. It went well. They ended up as or more successful than anyone else from their undergrad institution. So that story of the bottom third “from anywhere” can be bogus.

The Malcolm Gladwell talk/data is specifically about persisting in difficult STEM majors. And it included data from top ranked schools. If you are in the bottom third at Harvard, yes, you still have a Harvard degree but maybe it's English not STEM. And, maybe that's fine with you. But if you wanted to be a doctor, for example, you'd be better off going to the school where you can be in the top tier and be able to stay on that path.

Well that example above still holds since my parent was a stem major. Electrical Engineering and physics. Funny.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

But don’t the bottom third at Harvard who graduated have a diploma from Harvard too?
I think this applies to HS for sure but not elite institution full of 18-22 yr olds. My parent graduated from an elite college, bottom third, went to a “less impressive” masters got a 4.0 there went to get a PhD then started their own tech firm in the 80s. It went well. They ended up as or more successful than anyone else from their undergrad institution. So that story of the bottom third “from anywhere” can be bogus.

The Malcolm Gladwell talk/data is specifically about persisting in difficult STEM majors. And it included data from top ranked schools. If you are in the bottom third at Harvard, yes, you still have a Harvard degree but maybe it's English not STEM. And, maybe that's fine with you. But if you wanted to be a doctor, for example, you'd be better off going to the school where you can be in the top tier and be able to stay on that path.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to the admitted students day at both schools with an open mind. How far apart in rankings are we talking? My DC is in at a private school ranked around 40 (well known in major), but really prefers a public school admitted to that ranks around 120. I feel pretty strongly DC should go with the higher ranked school. DC likes both schools and likes the social scene, football games, etc. at the lower ranked school.

Please let your DC pick themselves! Don't keep mentioning the "rankings" It is their college experience and anyone who can get admitted to ~#40 is smart and motivated and will do well anywhere they go. But they will do best where they are happiest. Imagine if you force them to pick ~#40 and they are miserable--they will blame you forever and that would not be the type of relationship I'd want with my kid

But did you read the part where I said DC preferred the lower ranked school because of the football games, social scene, etc at a big state school? You think this is a valid reason to prefer one school over another when they are so vastly apart on the rankings?

Yes. Look at the Malcolm Gladwell talk. The research shows kids in the top third at any school will do well anywhere. He says don’t be the bottom third—not even at Harvard.

Why do you assume the DC will be at the bottom of the higher ranked school? Maybe DC will be in the top 1/3 of the #40 ranked school. Isn't that better than being at the top of the #120 ranked school?

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Anonymous wrote:Picking a college is unfortunately like so many big $$$ decisions...you try to make the best decision, but you are doing so with only like 5% of the information you really need...and you won't know it until you live it.

Know many kids that had lengthy deliberations and picked their "fit" school only to be dissatisfied. Know many kids that kind of randomly picked a school based on ranking and general location and loved it.

Honestly, my only advice is make sure a kid isn't picking the school they visited in April over the school they visited in January in a Northern climate. Seasonal apples-to-apples really is important.

Hahaha! Terrific advice

+1 I kind of think that for the most part kids' perceptions of "fit" are based on next to nothing but vague impressions, stereotypes, and magical thinking. But placebos do work, and it's the kids who are going to have to live with their decisions. So if I had a kid who firmly believed in a "fit" narrative about a lesser school, I would question it, get them to try and turn it into concrete aspects that can be compared across schools etc, but ultimately let them make the decision (given that it meets the financial options we laid out).

Anonymous wrote:I keep trying to justify a reason for her to go to the arts school because it's so highly ranked (assuming she would get in). She does love art, but I swore I would not have a kid who majored in something impractical--like I did. Up side--she'd probably get a scholarship and with all of her AP credits she could stay for 5-6 years as an undergrad and get a degree in art and something else more "practical." And then we'd have tons of money to send her wherever she wanted for grad school.