Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what exactly is the outrage about here?

That each application isn't thoroughly read and considered?

That people with lower test scores and GPA may get in over people with those higher stats?

That the system isn't totally objective and based on tests, GPA and rigor?

Please keep in mind that the first and third on this list cancel each other out.

Adding to this list

That some schools send out too many marketing materials?

Some of them look expensive. It's insane.

Anonymous wrote:

Why don't parents understand that? The first kid will get into just about all of the places the second kid got into to, plus has a shot at the highest tier schools. The issue is the parents/high achieving kids want the same acceptance rates as the second kid, but at the most selective schools in the country. THAT's what they are complaining about!

Except that's not true. I know plenty of kids like the first kid who have NOT been accepted to the schools that the second group of kids have, because the first kids run into yield protection.

The yield protect thing is terrible. It's become about status and money, rather than actually about academics. The cost of colleges are insane, and you have to jump through hoops to apply.

Anonymous wrote:So what exactly is the outrage about here?

That each application isn't thoroughly read and considered?

That people with lower test scores and GPA may get in over people with those higher stats?

That the system isn't totally objective and based on tests, GPA and rigor?

Please keep in mind that the first and third on this list cancel each other out.

Adding to this list

That some schools send out too many marketing materials?

So what exactly is the outrage about here?

That each application isn't thoroughly read and considered?

That people with lower test scores and GPA may get in over people with those higher stats?

That the system isn't totally objective and based on tests, GPA and rigor?

Please keep in mind that the first and third on this list cancel each other out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: The system is fine tuned for the colleges to build exactly the class they want. If you want to change the system you'll have to start by convincing them to not do that. Unlikely to ever happen, and with good reason.

The mistaken assumption is that elite colleges simply take the X best candidates and offer admission to them. Completely untrue and it has never been that way. They build a class to accommodate a long list which makes up their institutional mission. And in the current system they do it extremely well, test scores or no test scores.

No. Private colleges, maybe.
But not publics. Giving undue weight to race is illegal as we will soon find out from the SC

No one but you is talking about legality. That change will only make a minor adjustment to the process and affect a very small change in the admitted students at very few schools.

Despite your sock puppetting and attempt to change the OP's topic, people only care about this with the most elite colleges, really just the top 50 anyway.

The top 50 will always be able to pick whoever they want to build the class they want based on their mission, regardless of any supreme court decision.

I don't believe that. California colleges' admissions composition changed markedly when the state banned affirmative action.

Just because the racial cohort changed doesn't mean they didn't pick who they want. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts.

You think that change magically put high SATs in the front of the line? No way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: The system is fine tuned for the colleges to build exactly the class they want. If you want to change the system you'll have to start by convincing them to not do that. Unlikely to ever happen, and with good reason.

The mistaken assumption is that elite colleges simply take the X best candidates and offer admission to them. Completely untrue and it has never been that way. They build a class to accommodate a long list which makes up their institutional mission. And in the current system they do it extremely well, test scores or no test scores.

No. Private colleges, maybe.
But not publics. Giving undue weight to race is illegal as we will soon find out from the SC

No one but you is talking about legality. That change will only make a minor adjustment to the process and affect a very small change in the admitted students at very few schools.

Despite your sock puppetting and attempt to change the OP's topic, people only care about this with the most elite colleges, really just the top 50 anyway.

The top 50 will always be able to pick whoever they want to build the class they want based on their mission, regardless of any supreme court decision.

I haven't sock puppeted anything here. And you are wrong. If the colleges are required by law to eliminate consideration of race, the percentage of Asians will zoom to 75-80 percent of the elite colleges admissions. Guaranteed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the process is easier if you have a medium-achieving student with medium goals. So, instead of a 4.0UW GPA with 10 AP tests with all 5s (and that's before senior year), varsity sport captain, etc, etc, you have a regular kid with a 3.5 GPA, a couple AP classes, a regular sport or EC or job. That first kid is qualified to go to any college or university but could get shut out, and the second kid knows they're aiming lower, probably picking schools with 70+% acceptance rates, and getting in most places.

The first kid is not going to get shut out of college.

Just the elite ones---but yes, if they apply smartly, they will have many many excellent places to pick from. step down from T20-30 and a kid with those stats will find get many acceptances (unless they present themselves as "this school is beneath me" attitude )

+1
Which is exactly what some of these kids do when selecting what they seem to think are “safety schools.” Unless you’re applying ED, those schools know they are just fallbacks (in the students’ minds) and have every right to reject them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: The system is fine tuned for the colleges to build exactly the class they want. If you want to change the system you'll have to start by convincing them to not do that. Unlikely to ever happen, and with good reason.

The mistaken assumption is that elite colleges simply take the X best candidates and offer admission to them. Completely untrue and it has never been that way. They build a class to accommodate a long list which makes up their institutional mission. And in the current system they do it extremely well, test scores or no test scores.

I am certain the cool aid you drunk was tasty. This is another one of those lies. Absolute BS! Colleges may want certain geographic & racial mix and work towards that but there is no way it is conceivable that they are able to compose a mix of personalities by reading one or two essays. It is not possible for even a trained psychologists/psychiatrists to do so let alone by a bunch of AOs whose only aim to learn the ropes of the trade and become private consultants or enroll in the same school for a better job later on.

Yes, you are the genius who has figured it all out, and the AO at the elite colleges are a bunch of mindless dolts throwing darts at a board for admissions, even though they do it professionally and have a hundred years of institutional learning. And your ad hominem insult of AOs is quite a tell.

I am sure you use that esteemed insight with other professionals, like your doctor, your accountant, and others.

You know it all, and they know nothing. Congrats! Must be great being you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: The system is fine tuned for the colleges to build exactly the class they want. If you want to change the system you'll have to start by convincing them to not do that. Unlikely to ever happen, and with good reason.

The mistaken assumption is that elite colleges simply take the X best candidates and offer admission to them. Completely untrue and it has never been that way. They build a class to accommodate a long list which makes up their institutional mission. And in the current system they do it extremely well, test scores or no test scores.

No. Private colleges, maybe.
But not publics. Giving undue weight to race is illegal as we will soon find out from the SC

No one but you is talking about legality. That change will only make a minor adjustment to the process and affect a very small change in the admitted students at very few schools.

Despite your sock puppetting and attempt to change the OP's topic, people only care about this with the most elite colleges, really just the top 50 anyway.

The top 50 will always be able to pick whoever they want to build the class they want based on their mission, regardless of any supreme court decision.

I don't believe that. California colleges' admissions composition changed markedly when the state banned affirmative action.

I’ve talked to an AO and they have stated there is no possible way to review every application. Get them in early. Waryky decision for top schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: The system is fine tuned for the colleges to build exactly the class they want. If you want to change the system you'll have to start by convincing them to not do that. Unlikely to ever happen, and with good reason.

The mistaken assumption is that elite colleges simply take the X best candidates and offer admission to them. Completely untrue and it has never been that way. They build a class to accommodate a long list which makes up their institutional mission. And in the current system they do it extremely well, test scores or no test scores.

No. Private colleges, maybe.
But not publics. Giving undue weight to race is illegal as we will soon find out from the SC

No one but you is talking about legality. That change will only make a minor adjustment to the process and affect a very small change in the admitted students at very few schools.

Despite your sock puppetting and attempt to change the OP's topic, people only care about this with the most elite colleges, really just the top 50 anyway.

The top 50 will always be able to pick whoever they want to build the class they want based on their mission, regardless of any supreme court decision.

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: The system is fine tuned for the colleges to build exactly the class they want. If you want to change the system you'll have to start by convincing them to not do that. Unlikely to ever happen, and with good reason.

The mistaken assumption is that elite colleges simply take the X best candidates and offer admission to them. Completely untrue and it has never been that way. They build a class to accommodate a long list which makes up their institutional mission. And in the current system they do it extremely well, test scores or no test scores.

I am certain the cool aid you drunk was tasty. This is another one of those lies. Absolute BS! Colleges may want certain geographic & racial mix and work towards that but there is no way it is conceivable that they are able to compose a mix of personalities by reading one or two essays. It is not possible for even a trained psychologists/psychiatrists to do so let alone by a bunch of AOs whose only aim to learn the ropes of the trade and become private consultants or enroll in the same school for a better job later on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the process is easier if you have a medium-achieving student with medium goals. So, instead of a 4.0UW GPA with 10 AP tests with all 5s (and that's before senior year), varsity sport captain, etc, etc, you have a regular kid with a 3.5 GPA, a couple AP classes, a regular sport or EC or job. That first kid is qualified to go to any college or university but could get shut out, and the second kid knows they're aiming lower, probably picking schools with 70+% acceptance rates, and getting in most places.

The first kid is not going to get shut out of college.

Just the elite ones---but yes, if they apply smartly, they will have many many excellent places to pick from. step down from T20-30 and a kid with those stats will find get many acceptances (unless they present themselves as "this school is beneath me" attitude )

Anonymous wrote:Listen- our tax dollars support all of these institutions, including the private schools with multi- billion dollar endowments. I think it is reasonable to have an opinion on the process. Why should everyone have to put up or shut up?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will admit we are not happy with the results of the early rounds. And I hope anyone reading understand it is not coming from a place of bitterness but from a place of helplessness. It is hard to digest how the most venerable institutions of this country peddle and getaway with blatant lies year after year and demolish the spirits of a vast majority of kids.

I am trying to understand how any of their claims add up?

"Application are reviewed holistically & We also like receiving 50,000 applications


They never explain how they manage to read 50k+ apps and how spending 2-5 min per app allows holistic evaluation is beyond me. This is total crap!

There's got to be a better way. I don't know why no journalists have covered this. We are fighting about diversity/discrimination but the issues with college admission is more basic. The college admission first need to stop lying to the kids, period!

We JUST had this thread last week. You have to take responsibility for the colleges you chose to apply to and your feelings about those colleges.

The colleges manage the applications as they see fit. If you didn't want to be part of a 50,000 person application pool, you didn't have to be. That was a choice you made.

Not really. I don't get to decide where majority of my tax dollars are spent. I can only impact that by voting, but even then we don't vote on "which highway will get repaired this year". I still have to pay taxes no matter who wins the election.

These colleges are not picking someone with a 1100 and 2.5 over a 1600/4.0UW (unless it's an athlete). They know that test scores are just a part of the picture. When admission rates are less than 20% a significant portion of "highly qualified" candidates are going to be rejected---that's just life. If you choose to apply to elite schools you should know that and be prepared for the consequences (ie. You might not get in even with perfect scores). And yes, a kid from a disadvantaged background (poor, worried about roof over head and where food is coming from, parents who did not attend college and know how to help them, in a school district where most don't go on to college let alone elite colleges, etc) does deserve to have that taken into account---much harder to get a 1400 and 4.0+ when you have so many other concerns. They may not have 1000+ hours of volunteering in the right area or elite summer programs or amazing ECs, but they can be considered "equivalent candidate" to your other kids with different scores. It's the whole picture colleges want to fill diverse classes on many levels. Know this going into the admission process and pick you list wisely.
Nobody is guaranteed admission a Top university...but we are lucky to live in a country where anyone who wants to attend college can find a way to (largely). You are not "tested into college track at age 12/13" like so many countries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree. Although it seems rough, I think countries that base it all on one exam have a system that makes more sense. Set a lower threshold for kids from below a certain income level to ensure parity.

+1 this is the way to do it, not by skin color.

Sure, let's be totally and completely objective, starting from riiiiiiiight.......now (!) -- completely ignoring the system that placed one group ahead of all the others. Reminds me of when my 4 year old used to try to race his brother to the door, but wanted to call 1-2-3 go after he was halfway to the door, before his brother even knew there was gonna be a race.

+1

People show their priviege when they ignore the 150 years of being shut out of schools because of religion or skin color. Now that things are being evened up, applicants who they have no knowledge of all of the sudden do not have the merit of THEIR kid.

you mean getting revenge on people who did nothing to you?