Anonymous
01/26/2023 12:00
Subject: Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:This all sounds so icky. I opened this thread thinking it would be about academic challenges, but instead, it's all about social climbing and making connections to get a step up. I don't even see that many posts speaking to making genuine connections. So glad my kid isn't interested in Northwestern or finance.
Understandable. Competition increases as one "climbs the ladder" to success. definitely not for everyone.
The clubs do make genuine connections with other members entering the field as well as with employers in the students' targeted professional field.
And, yes, you are correct in understanding that success is not all about academics.
For those interested purely in academics as a measure of success, consider investigating colleges & universities which send a high number or a high percentage of their graduates to PhD programs.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:53
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Involvement in undergraduate business clubs at elite universities is engaging in career prep from year one or year two of one's undergraduate experience.
Club members educate one another & create opportunities for members. trips to employers are common as are presentations by employers.
Club membership--related to any field, not just business--is one advantage of attending a National University.
Competition escalates at every level one advances. I was a top track athlete. 4:06 miler in high school in the 70's. Doesn't get you much in the D 1 NCAA. The first step is knocking six seconds off pretty quickly. Easier said than done, especially since the impulse in college (especially if they are paying you) is to over train and live erratically. . Ditto with a sub 9 two mile high schooler (I did that too). Have to run that pace for 5k - sub 14 minutes - to be remotely competitive. And need to do it quickly. Even a speed athlete like me had to get there - watch a local road race and the winner in 15 minutes looks fast. Football is no different - everyone has to gain at least 10 -15 percent in weight but who knows whether they remain as quick. The kid I tutored started at 210 and went to 245. A safety at 210 but not fast enough. 245 was not a weight he could easily carry and I had endless discussions with him over the NFL. All State first team and the like - not an easy transition. Even some five stars don't pan out. Virtually every sport has similar challenges. Competition radically escalates.
The academic environment is no different. The middle of the class at my school has 1500 SAT's today. Some don't study, some overachieve, some are skilled in a lopsided way in certain subjects. The competition is intense, and just as in athletic a healthy balance of humility and ego is required. Finding your niche academically and socially is helpful, and it doesn't just arrive at a doorstep. Most of the "big" careers require a visit to the treadmill, and you never really get off that treadmill. Must take it day by day. Not making a finance club is but a blip in the journey.
Not an accurate analogy as track athletes are measured by just one metric = time.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:48
Subject: Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
This all sounds so icky. I opened this thread thinking it would be about academic challenges, but instead, it's all about social climbing and making connections to get a step up. I don't even see that many posts speaking to making genuine connections. So glad my kid isn't interested in Northwestern or finance.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:41
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
The pyramid narrows as you go to the top. There is room for only so many at each level. At any given level, you will find some are due to connections and others are due to their soft and hard skills. For those who rely solely on their skills, it gets harder but not impossible. Fortunately for them, there are application submissions through firm websites and Hireview screenings. You get through them, you will be called for phone interviews. A little bit of luck along the way never hurts. But for luck to favor you, you will have to try first!
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:15
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Involvement in undergraduate business clubs at elite universities is engaging in career prep from year one or year two of one's undergraduate experience.
Club members educate one another & create opportunities for members. trips to employers are common as are presentations by employers.
Club membership--related to any field, not just business--is one advantage of attending a National University.
Competition escalates at every level one advances. I was a top track athlete. 4:06 miler in high school in the 70's. Doesn't get you much in the D 1 NCAA. The first step is knocking six seconds off pretty quickly. Easier said than done, especially since the impulse in college (especially if they are paying you) is to over train and live erratically. . Ditto with a sub 9 two mile high schooler (I did that too). Have to run that pace for 5k - sub 14 minutes - to be remotely competitive. And need to do it quickly. Even a speed athlete like me had to get there - watch a local road race and the winner in 15 minutes looks fast. Football is no different - everyone has to gain at least 10 -15 percent in weight but who knows whether they remain as quick. The kid I tutored started at 210 and went to 245. A safety at 210 but not fast enough. 245 was not a weight he could easily carry and I had endless discussions with him over the NFL. All State first team and the like - not an easy transition. Even some five stars don't pan out. Virtually every sport has similar challenges. Competition radically escalates.
The academic environment is no different. The middle of the class at my school has 1500 SAT's today. Some don't study, some overachieve, some are skilled in a lopsided way in certain subjects. The competition is intense, and just as in athletic a healthy balance of humility and ego is required. Finding your niche academically and socially is helpful, and it doesn't just arrive at a doorstep. Most of the "big" careers require a visit to the treadmill, and you never really get off that treadmill. Must take it day by day. Not making a finance club is but a blip in the journey.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:13
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Attending Northwestern is not going to help your kids if they don't have the social skills to establish the right connections and meet the right people to help their professional careers. There is a reason why many people with degrees from Northwestern and other 80K/year universities are making the same salary as people who attend public state universities. Those that have the social skills to get into finance clubs at Northwestern or U. of Chicago are likely to be financially successful in the future. Who you know is so much more important than how much you know in the real world.
This is not accurate.
Northwestern salaries match other schools for three main reasons:
1) Many take jobs in the low cost Midwest and are still compared to East Coast & West Coast Salaries
2) Large School of Communications which is not a high paying field
3) Medill School of journalism is the best in the world, but journalism pays modest salaries.
Why would anyone waste 320K on tuition for a professional career that pay little, unless your parents have money to burn? You could do that a public universities like University of Illinois for 200K+ less.
Because if you can afford it, NU gives a better learning experience overall. Largest class ever would be Chem 101/102 (or whatever they are calling them now) with maybe 300-350 students in the lecture. What's the largest class at U of I? I've been told well over 500 and there are many of them fresh/soph years. At NU majority of classes are less than 50---huge difference taking calculus with 500+ vs 35-50 students. Much easier to make connections, find profs to do research with, etc. That's what people are paying for.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:11
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Attending Northwestern is not going to help your kids if they don't have the social skills to establish the right connections and meet the right people to help their professional careers. There is a reason why many people with degrees from Northwestern and other 80K/year universities are making the same salary as people who attend public state universities. Those that have the social skills to get into finance clubs at Northwestern or U. of Chicago are likely to be financially successful in the future. Who you know is so much more important than how much you know in the real world.
This is not accurate.
Northwestern salaries match other schools for three main reasons:
1) Many take jobs in the low cost Midwest and are still compared to East Coast & West Coast Salaries
2) Large School of Communications which is not a high paying field
3) Medill School of journalism is the best in the world, but journalism pays modest salaries.
Why would anyone waste 320K on tuition for a professional career that pay little, unless your parents have money to burn? You could do that a public universities like University of Illinois for 200K+ less.
60% of the undergraduates at Northwestern University receive substantial financial aid. Only wealthy families pay full cost.
The average financial aid recipient at Northwestern University pays about $27,000 per year total. Financial aid is all grant money--no loans.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:09
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Attending Northwestern is not going to help your kids if they don't have the social skills to establish the right connections and meet the right people to help their professional careers. There is a reason why many people with degrees from Northwestern and other 80K/year universities are making the same salary as people who attend public state universities. Those that have the social skills to get into finance clubs at Northwestern or U. of Chicago are likely to be financially successful in the future. Who you know is so much more important than how much you know in the real world.
This is not accurate.
Northwestern salaries match other schools for three main reasons:
1) Many take jobs in the low cost Midwest and are still compared to East Coast & West Coast Salaries
2) Large School of Communications which is not a high paying field
3) Medill School of journalism is the best in the world, but journalism pays modest salaries.
Add in Large school of music, which is also not a high paying field.
And yes, engineers from Northwestern don't make more than anyone else---that's a given that an ENG/CS major from GMU/UMBC can make the same as someone at a "higher ranked" school. It's more about where the job is for pay
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:07
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Attending Northwestern is not going to help your kids if they don't have the social skills to establish the right connections and meet the right people to help their professional careers. There is a reason why many people with degrees from Northwestern and other 80K/year universities are making the same salary as people who attend public state universities. Those that have the social skills to get into finance clubs at Northwestern or U. of Chicago are likely to be financially successful in the future. Who you know is so much more important than how much you know in the real world.
This is not accurate.
Northwestern salaries match other schools for three main reasons:
1) Many take jobs in the low cost Midwest and are still compared to East Coast & West Coast Salaries
2) Large School of Communications which is not a high paying field
3) Medill School of journalism is the best in the world, but journalism pays modest salaries.
Why would anyone waste 320K on tuition for a professional career that pay little, unless your parents have money to burn? You could do that a public universities like University of Illinois for 200K+ less.
60% of the undergraduates at Northwestern University receive substantial financial aid. Only wealthy families pay full cost.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:03
Subject: Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:My son joined chess club without any difficulties. Maybe op’s kid is not very smart.
Don't think the chess club is where the "popular frat guys" are hanging out.....
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:02
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Attending Northwestern is not going to help your kids if they don't have the social skills to establish the right connections and meet the right people to help their professional careers. There is a reason why many people with degrees from Northwestern and other 80K/year universities are making the same salary as people who attend public state universities. Those that have the social skills to get into finance clubs at Northwestern or U. of Chicago are likely to be financially successful in the future. Who you know is so much more important than how much you know in the real world.
This is not accurate.
Northwestern salaries match other schools for three main reasons:
1) Many take jobs in the low cost Midwest and are still compared to East Coast & West Coast Salaries
2) Large School of Communications which is not a high paying field
3) Medill School of journalism is the best in the world, but journalism pays modest salaries.
Why would anyone waste 320K on tuition for a professional career that pay little, unless your parents have money to burn? You could do that a public universities like University of Illinois for 200K+ less.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:01
Subject: Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Northwestern University- great school. Econ major has tried twice (fall and winter quarter) to get into a competitive finance club and was rejected. He wrote essays, gave presentations, and had to sit and answer very hard questions. Just a reminder that getting in is really half (or a quarter) of the battle.
This will sound terrible, but I think at Northwestern the best way to break into finance post-grad is to join a frat that has good alumni connections
Yes, it does sound terrible
Anonymous
01/26/2023 11:01
Subject: Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Finance club / investing club is so cringe at t10s.
What does "cringe" mean in this context ?
Did you mean to write critical instead of cringe ?
Thank you in advance.
It's an extension of who is in the "right frat/sorority". The previous poster said their son got in without doing any of the work---others do all the work and get rejected.
Anonymous
01/26/2023 10:56
Subject: Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Northwestern University- great school. Econ major has tried twice (fall and winter quarter) to get into a competitive finance club and was rejected. He wrote essays, gave presentations, and had to sit and answer very hard questions. Just a reminder that getting in is really half (or a quarter) of the battle.
It is like that at many schools though. Not just top 10. Lots of gatekeeping.
Yes but if that gate is closed, and it is because you only get in if you schmooze the right people, there are other ways. Keep at it.
Ok but I don't really care. My point is that OP thinks it is just like that at "top schools". It's not.
My DS is also at Northwestern and he is accepted into the Finance club without having to write essays or presentations. He got the right connections.
So he's in the "Right Fraternity", correct? Ridiculous...
Anonymous
01/26/2023 10:56
Subject: Re:Once you get into a T10 school, the competition really begins
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Totally disagree. Nobody cares about some “competitive finance club.”
It is good to get in but not essential. I know several kids that got into tipopy top law schools from T10s after being rejected from debate and mock trial and all that.
Because the decision to offer law school admission is not 99% based on who you know---it's largely about your gpa, LSAT and recommendation letters, and yes a bit about your connections. Getting into elite clubs at Northwestern has always been about who you know, those in sororities/frats pull their buddies into the top activities.