Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:33     Subject: If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:… do you ever think you should move to Europe to “go back where you came from”?

I have started to feel this way. I feel like no matter how much I work to be inclusive and tolerant, there’s no getting around the fact that my presence as a white person in North America is the result of colonization, slavery, and racism. All things I fundamentally oppose.

Sometimes I think it would be better for everyone, including me, if I returned with my family to my ancestral roots (Germany or Norway). Not just because I feel the US really belongs to Native people and the descendants of enslaved people who built the country, but because I wonder if living where my family lived for thousands of years before immigrating to the US in the early 20th century would make me feel like I belonged more.

I just feel like I’m not supposed to be here. It wasn’t my choice to come but maybe it could be my choice to leave.

Does anyone else feel this way?


No.

Next.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:21     Subject: If you are of European descent…
OP, you take your emotional baggage wherever you go and moving to an ancestral home would not provide the connection you hope for. Going into a community of strangers who do not share your cultural background or upbringing is not the solution. It has to come from within.

Agree with the poster about examining your media choices. The handwringing over whiteness in this country no doubt is not helping your mental state. Nobody expects you to apologise for being white.

Your family is obviously scattered and there is no hometown for you to return to, with familiar faces and childhood memories to embrace and make you feel rooted. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about that. But maybe think about whether where you are living now is making you happy.

Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:17     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I have no clear way to move to Germany or Norway, and my understanding is that it would be hard. I also speak neither language, and my family immigrated to the US too long ago to qualify for one of the programs that allows you to get citizenship based on recent ancestors.

I do actually have one Irish great-grandparent too, I don’t know if that would help.

I just don’t feel like I belong in the US.



So, you basically have no strong cultural connection to these countries but think you will fit right in. Learning the language is one small part of belonging, and you haven’t even bothered to do that.

You sound a little narcissistic.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:14     Subject: If you are of European descent…
The US isn’t the only country built on slavery and imperialism. Most borders today are the result of many contentious centuries of land battles. I mean look at Russia still trying to invade Ukraine, China trying to claim Hong Kong, Pakistan and Israel fighting over Palestine, and so on. I’m not really sure where you can go that is some sort of moral utopia. You can’t let the weight of history’s ugliness weigh on you because the color of your skin. That isn’t helpful for anyone.


It’s better to stay in the US, acknowledge how our country has been set up to systemically favor the dominant white culture (which will soon be the minority), and be a part of the voting class that helps reshape policies to help POC. Also, the US is becoming increasingly more mixed-race. Just be supportive of this and embrace diversity instead of running back to Europe.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:09     Subject: If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No offense op, but they probably won’t let you in. Other countries have much stricter immigration policies than the US does.


So I belong nowhere.


You belong in therapy, because moving to another country isn't going to cure what ails you.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:09     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
OP, you can’t just plop back down in your ancestral homeland and expect to belong. Even if your grandparents provided you with their cultural traditions, even if you grew up in an immigrant community here…the community your family left has been changing and evolving since your family’s departure. For example, if your family came from Germany pre-WW2, all the people who stayed have a very different lived experience that impacts that community to this day. You will never fully understand that. And there are hundreds of smaller, more nuanced changes that have occurred over time that you weren’t a part of or wouldn’t understand.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:05     Subject: If you are of European descent…
There are minority immigrants in European countries as well and plenty of racism, classism, and exploitation in Europe. I don't think you'd feel much of a difference in that regard. Also, you still wouldn't belong because you're American and far removed from the local culture of any European country.

Why not stay in America and try to make it better in the small ways that you can within your community?
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:03     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, i feel a yearning to return to my ancestors’ land. It’s not guilt but I definitely don’t feel great or proud about being descended from colonizers. I wish my family had maintained Irish citizenship through the generations.


Well if it makes you feel any better the Irish were not “colonizers”.


All European settlers/immigrants in the US are "colonizers" in the sense that they have created and maintain a colony of white people here that displaced and oppressed native populations. You can be a colonizer without being in charge of the place being colonized. Europeans came to the US and took over and are still basically in charge. And imposed their language and culture. That's colonization.



Imposed their language…you do realize that many Europeans don’t speak English, and didn’t when they moved here, don’t you?


Do you realize that the Spanish spoken throughout the western United States and the rest of the Americas is a European language? As is the French spoken in the Caribbean and in Louisiana.

I know, right. Think of all the countries in the Americans that speak Czech, Slovak, Finnish, Polish, Russian, and so on. Let’s let this genius PP get back to their Mensa meeting.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 12:02     Subject: If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So don't own slaves or colonize other countries. See how easy it is to take responsibility for you own actions? Frankly, I applaud my Scandinavian ancestors for finding a better life here.


OP said that her ancestors came here on a whim. I know the famine and brutality that my ancestors fled from when the came here, so yes, I think they made a good choice - but OP's ancestors were just bored and decided to cross an ocean because they liked the weather. She doesn't have any reason to respect any decisions that her ancestors might have made - so she's unhappy.


I can’t stop laughing about OP’s ancestors emigrating on a whim. All I can picture is Olga and Sven walking around the docks in Bergen wondering whether they should go to lunch or America. Not able to snag a table at their favorite fish shack, they hop a boat to Baltimore.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:58     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, i feel a yearning to return to my ancestors’ land. It’s not guilt but I definitely don’t feel great or proud about being descended from colonizers. I wish my family had maintained Irish citizenship through the generations.


Well if it makes you feel any better the Irish were not “colonizers”.


All European settlers/immigrants in the US are "colonizers" in the sense that they have created and maintain a colony of white people here that displaced and oppressed native populations. You can be a colonizer without being in charge of the place being colonized. Europeans came to the US and took over and are still basically in charge. And imposed their language and culture. That's colonization.



Imposed their language…you do realize that many Europeans don’t speak English, and didn’t when they moved here, don’t you?


Do you realize that the Spanish spoken throughout the western United States and the rest of the Americas is a European language? As is the French spoken in the Caribbean and in Louisiana.

We speak English because the English won the key wars. But yes, all Europeans who move to the US are part of a broader colonization of this land by white settlers.


Yes, the Poles, the Romanians, Bulgarians…great colonizers.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:48     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, i feel a yearning to return to my ancestors’ land. It’s not guilt but I definitely don’t feel great or proud about being descended from colonizers. I wish my family had maintained Irish citizenship through the generations.


Well if it makes you feel any better the Irish were not “colonizers”.


All European settlers/immigrants in the US are "colonizers" in the sense that they have created and maintain a colony of white people here that displaced and oppressed native populations. You can be a colonizer without being in charge of the place being colonized. Europeans came to the US and took over and are still basically in charge. And imposed their language and culture. That's colonization.



Imposed their language…you do realize that many Europeans don’t speak English, and didn’t when they moved here, don’t you?


Do you realize that the Spanish spoken throughout the western United States and the rest of the Americas is a European language? As is the French spoken in the Caribbean and in Louisiana.

We speak English because the English won the key wars. But yes, all Europeans who move to the US are part of a broader colonization of this land by white settlers.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:46     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, i feel a yearning to return to my ancestors’ land. It’s not guilt but I definitely don’t feel great or proud about being descended from colonizers. I wish my family had maintained Irish citizenship through the generations.


Just move out of Montgomery County. That would be a good start.


DP. Why are you so hostile to people expressing a very normal and understandable feeling? Are you the same person posting angrily in this thread or are there multiple?

I don't understand the hostility here. People are saying "I don't feel like I belong, I wonder if I would belong more in my ancestral home." Even if you disagree with them, which is a totally valid perspective, I don't understand why it's making people so hostile. It is a vulnerable, very human desire, to admit you feel adrift.


Because it’s neither normal nor understandable. It’s guilt induced by what is essentially a religion that’s refuses to think of itself as a religion. It’s a viewpoint not rooted in any true knowledge of the larger history of humanity. It’s not normal to feel guilty about having been born as a fourth-generation person in this country and feel like you don’t belong to it. Or to think you could move back to Ireland because 1/8 of your ancestry left during a famine and somehow think that you belong in that country instead. Trust me, you don’t and they won’t accept you as some returning prodigal child despite whatever fantasy you hold.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:46     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, i feel a yearning to return to my ancestors’ land. It’s not guilt but I definitely don’t feel great or proud about being descended from colonizers. I wish my family had maintained Irish citizenship through the generations.


Well if it makes you feel any better the Irish were not “colonizers”.


All European settlers/immigrants in the US are "colonizers" in the sense that they have created and maintain a colony of white people here that displaced and oppressed native populations. You can be a colonizer without being in charge of the place being colonized. Europeans came to the US and took over and are still basically in charge. And imposed their language and culture. That's colonization.


How were the Irish colonizers in this way, where the Chinese were not?


They were white people moving to a white colony where people spoke the language of their homeland. Yes, the Irish did experience discrimination in the US at one point, but the white people who ran the country realized that if they just decided white people were "one of them", then they could ensure Irish immigrants would side with the white government and against, say, black people arguing for civil rights.

There is no Chinese colony in North America. The Chinese never used force to conquer the US, nor did they install a government that gave people of Chinese descent rights and privileges that other people did not have. You can't be a Chinese colonizer in the US. Only white people are colonizers in the US.

(I am a white person.)


This is not true.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:44     Subject: Re:If you are of European descent…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, i feel a yearning to return to my ancestors’ land. It’s not guilt but I definitely don’t feel great or proud about being descended from colonizers. I wish my family had maintained Irish citizenship through the generations.


Well if it makes you feel any better the Irish were not “colonizers”.


All European settlers/immigrants in the US are "colonizers" in the sense that they have created and maintain a colony of white people here that displaced and oppressed native populations. You can be a colonizer without being in charge of the place being colonized. Europeans came to the US and took over and are still basically in charge. And imposed their language and culture. That's colonization.



Imposed their language…you do realize that many Europeans don’t speak English, and didn’t when they moved here, don’t you?
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2023 11:42     Subject: If you are of European descent…
My ancestors are from Ireland and Scotland. If I could move to Ireland I would without hesitation. However that would've required my grandfather to pursue dual citizenship, which he did not, as he died before our country got to the insane point we're at today.