Anonymous wrote:PP here. And I would, as others have noted that the switch to viola from violin is not hard. But violins are in the limelight/violas are the supporting players, and so it isn’t as easy to get your kid to switch as you would think! I suggested the switch to my kid after they barely squeaked into MCYO, and they instead took it as motivation to work harder at the violin. Which wasn’t my intent at all but you can’t control how kids read things - they are in orchestra and know the way violists are perceived as the Hufflepuffs of the orchestra while violinists are the Gryffindors.

Yeah my violinist also refused to switch to the viola. Shame since violists are so in demand.

PP here. And I would, as others have noted that the switch to viola from violin is not hard. But violins are in the limelight/violas are the supporting players, and so it isn’t as easy to get your kid to switch as you would think! I suggested the switch to my kid after they barely squeaked into MCYO, and they instead took it as motivation to work harder at the violin. Which wasn’t my intent at all but you can’t control how kids read things - they are in orchestra and know the way violists are perceived as the Hufflepuffs of the orchestra while violinists are the Gryffindors.

Anonymous wrote:I too have wondered why Asian kids focus so heavily on piano and violin. You would think a few more would try horn or tuba or bassoon, all of which are desperate to find players. It’s a lot easier to get a bassoon spot at an Ivy League orchestra than it is a violin spot.

My kid plays the French horn and she has really benefited from the lack of competition. She has a really good ear (honed through piano lessons and choir from a young age), and loves playing, but it’s also nice that it’s easier to be a “star” in her realm. To be a star violinist takes at least 2 hrs of practice a day by middle school and then more from then on. Not so for the more obscure instruments.

As I am in this pickle right now (DC plays violin though I tried to steer them to a less competitive instrument), I can offer some guesses. First, if your family cares about music, they will start early. Piano and violin and voice are two things a young child (4 and 5) can start. It’s like how soccer is a good first sport. A little kid can’t play the french horn but they can plunk out some notes on piano or pick up a tiny violin. There are plenty of group violin classes, Suzuki teachers, and materials. The issue is that playing a stringed instrument is often hardest in the early intermediate stage. At that point, your child either quits or keeps going. If they get past that, and it would happen around fourth or fifth grade if they have been playing since early elementary, then they go to school and realize they are ahead of all the kids who started in fourth in their school music program. This makes them feel good, especially if there are other areas they are not good at, at an age where they also get nervous about starting and failing at something new. So it is hard at that point to get them to switch. Meanwhile other kids are starting fresh and may choose band because they see the kids who have been playing the violin since they were five and feel they cannot catch up.

On top of that, the reality is that in orchestra, the violins are the stars, play the melody, get the virtuostic bits. It’s the fun stuff. It’s more competitive but the upside is that violins have the most seats in orchestra so you also could participate in youth orchestra without investing as much time as the concertmaster does, whereas in smaller sections like viola, cello, many band instruments, you have much fewer opportunities. I noticed that in sports. Soccer, football, basketball are the most popular sports so you’d think people would try less popular sports, but they don’t for similar reasons. On the flipside, while for let’s say college recruiting, you’d be competing with more kids, there are more slots than in some niche sports. Unlike music, a strong soccer player often can switch to another less competitive sport even as late as high school and excel because they have acquired general fitness and agility. It would be much harder for a violinist to easily switch to a band instrument. I have seen some people who have played piano for years suddenly pick up another instrument in high school,
though, and do really well.

Anonymous wrote:Just curious: is the experience different for string players vs. wind/brass? My kid plays a brass instrument, and over the years I’ve noticed far fewer Asian musicians in the school “band” ensembles than in the “orchestras.”

They’re now playing in a non-MCYO symphonic (combined) orchestra, and I still notice the preponderance of Asian strings players over other instruments. I wonder if that could account for the differing experiences with MCYO? The early seriousness of the Suzuki method is appealing to families who really value serious musical education, but there’s not really anything comparable for, say, aspiring 6yo French horn players.

Ah the French horn, I loved it. My husband was in the Greater Youth Boston Symphony Orchestra. He started in high school. They got to tour in some of the European countries. He had a lot of fun but was not dedicated enough to pursue it professionally.

Do your kids tour?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCYO is a very cutthroat and toxic environment, my daughter is in young Artist, she has been there for the past three years. The auditions seems inclusive and make it look like they accept people of all races, but they only pick Asians (really Chinese) to play for their orchestra. It’s terribly one sided, quite obvious, initially jarring and totally unfair in my opinion and I AM Chinese. The student violinist are very competitive and clique and don’t like new people joining. The clique groups are made up of kids who have been in mcyo for the past five years. I don’t want to discourage you from auditioning…but just wanted you to be aware of the MCYO culture.

My daughter is one of the concertmasters of YA this year and she has made friends with all her seatmates. In fact, my daughter, who is NOT Chinese, has been part of three orchestras in MCYO - Prep Strings, Chamber Strings and YA - and has consistently loved the experience. The two conductors Mr. Orozco and Mrs. Poling are amusing and engaging and are excellent at their job.

In all the years we've been part of this organization, I can guarantee that there has been no toxicity and nothing has been cutthroat. The conductors go to great lengths to share the top seats, every year. They do not offer solos, or very short ones, because again, their goal is to have students play together, instead of giving more limelight to the more talented students.

People have the wrong idea about MCYO because they are racist - they see it has a majority of Asian students; and because parents don't understand how something that is audition-based and high level could not be cut-throat. But it's not. Once you're in, there is no cutthroat. And if don't get in, you can always audition the following year. During the audition, it's the best players who get in, regardless of ethnicity. Surely that's how it should be! Don't you want kids to be rewarded for their hard work? My daughter has worked VERY hard for years to play at the level she does. She and all the other students who work hard deserve to be there.

Do you know why it seems you always see the same kids every year? It's because they love it, and want to return, and have the level to be accepted back every year. There is no other orchestra they could apply to that has that level of play. They cannot go anywhere else. And yet MCYO makes them audition anyway, because they want to make sure they are being fair.

It's disheartening to see posters such as the one above dragging the good name of MCYO through the mud.

I'm not the one that posted about MCYO being toxic, but that's what I've heard from 3 separate kids in DD's studio, all of whom do well for themselves. Two are older, and have said that they no longer encounter it, at the upper levels. I have NOT heard that there is discrimination; pretty much all YO have a higher number of East Asians than anyone else, and that's a priorities thing, and not anything else, IMO (we're not East Asian). What I have heard of is kids speaking along the lines of "they're ONLY a second violin", like that's some sort of character flaw. Or 'You only practice two hours a day? I practice 4-6 hours. You can't be good if you don't practice that much', that sort of talk.

What I have heard of AY is along similar lines. Snootiness.

I’m actually curious… by around the age I think the OP described (11?) are many of the string players in MCYO practicing 2 or more hrs per day? That is a lot for an upper elementary-aged child!

This is rare. But having a child who was strong in both sports and music, I will point out that the sports culture is equally or probably more demanding, and at the highest level there are plenty of MoCo youth athletes training two hours or more per day, albeit their training is usually mixed, eg multiple sports (but that would be similar to a child practicing solo one day, having a 2 hour mcyo rehearsal the next, then going to a Saturday program for a few hours which might a mix of music theory, ensemble, etc.). My child has often noted that sports are more demanding in the sense that they get so physically tired after an hour of their sport, versus after an hour of practicing their instrument they are fresh enough to do homework, etc. Anyway just pointing this out because culturally you see more Asians in music and there is an undertone in people’s comments that somehow Asian parents are pressuring their kids, etc., more than white parents, and I want to call that out. If a child absolutely loved soccer and went out and practiced in the yard for two hours, nobody would question it.

Anonymous wrote:MCYO is a very cutthroat and toxic environment, my daughter is in young Artist, she has been there for the past three years. The auditions seems inclusive and make it look like they accept people of all races, but they only pick Asians (really Chinese) to play for their orchestra. It’s terribly one sided, quite obvious, initially jarring and totally unfair in my opinion and I AM Chinese. The student violinist are very competitive and clique and don’t like new people joining. The clique groups are made up of kids who have been in mcyo for the past five years. I don’t want to discourage you from auditioning…but just wanted you to be aware of the MCYO culture.

Yah no way this poster is Chinese. Absolute racism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and related question. I have a 10 year old. She'll be in 6th next year. We weren't in town last August to try for MCYO. She is in book 3/4 suzuki.

I'd guess she's not at the level of play of mcyo chamber orchestra to be accepted but she's far better than the rest of the kids in her school orchestra. She practices 30-60 mins a day. We belong to a church orchestra nearby but it's not that serious either. She's bored in both orchestras with the level of play.

Is there another orchestra that you all would recommend? This is for a kid who likes playing with other people, seems to enjoy the camaraderie with the orchestra kids, but has no plans to do it in college or afterwards or anything. I doubt I could increase her time commitment towards it either (she has other hobbies and sports that she likes and wants to spend time in). Also, I don't think she'd opt for anything competitive or high pressure (just not her personality). We are in MoCo.

Depending on your location, you might also want to check out PVYO, with ensembles rehearsing in Potomac and Rockville: https://www.pvyo.org

Is this orchestra very intense? how many hours practice do the kids do, and does everyone have private lessons? Also, are there any opportunities for participating in festivals (travelling, etc.)? She'd mainly be doing it for having fun, making friends, and also just because she really enjoys violin. We live in Gaithersburg. Thanks.

It’s one evening rehearsal a week, with the expectation (but not absolute requirement) that you’ll also have private lessons. I suspect almost all of them do.

They also highly encourage kids to participate in their school orchestras, and give the kids January off so rehearsals won’t conflict with honors band/orchestra. But my HS kid is doing PVYO because they can’t fit a music class into their magnet class schedule, but still wanted to play in an ensemble.

They do two concerts per season. Mine doesn’t usually practice more than 30 minutes a day, but it will depend on the kid, on the instrument, on the ensemble, and on the pieces they’re playing.

What are the differences between amCYO and PVYO?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and related question. I have a 10 year old. She'll be in 6th next year. We weren't in town last August to try for MCYO. She is in book 3/4 suzuki.

I'd guess she's not at the level of play of mcyo chamber orchestra to be accepted but she's far better than the rest of the kids in her school orchestra. She practices 30-60 mins a day. We belong to a church orchestra nearby but it's not that serious either. She's bored in both orchestras with the level of play.

Is there another orchestra that you all would recommend? This is for a kid who likes playing with other people, seems to enjoy the camaraderie with the orchestra kids, but has no plans to do it in college or afterwards or anything. I doubt I could increase her time commitment towards it either (she has other hobbies and sports that she likes and wants to spend time in). Also, I don't think she'd opt for anything competitive or high pressure (just not her personality). We are in MoCo.

PVYO has a lot of slots for strings. My kid plays is a brass player, so I can’t speak to the level of competitiveness among the strings, but in general it’s a well-run orchestra with less competition and pressure than MCYO. The spring concert in the Strathmore concert hall is a great experience.

Agree. DS has most enjoyed playing with PVYO, has also played with MCYO.

Interesting. My brass player has gotten a lot more out of MCYO than PVYO musically so has enjoyed MCYO more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and related question. I have a 10 year old. She'll be in 6th next year. We weren't in town last August to try for MCYO. She is in book 3/4 suzuki.

I'd guess she's not at the level of play of mcyo chamber orchestra to be accepted but she's far better than the rest of the kids in her school orchestra. She practices 30-60 mins a day. We belong to a church orchestra nearby but it's not that serious either. She's bored in both orchestras with the level of play.

Is there another orchestra that you all would recommend? This is for a kid who likes playing with other people, seems to enjoy the camaraderie with the orchestra kids, but has no plans to do it in college or afterwards or anything. I doubt I could increase her time commitment towards it either (she has other hobbies and sports that she likes and wants to spend time in). Also, I don't think she'd opt for anything competitive or high pressure (just not her personality). We are in MoCo.

PVYO has a lot of slots for strings. My kid plays is a brass player, so I can’t speak to the level of competitiveness among the strings, but in general it’s a well-run orchestra with less competition and pressure than MCYO. The spring concert in the Strathmore concert hall is a great experience.

Agree. DS has most enjoyed playing with PVYO, has also played with MCYO.

Anonymous wrote:NP and related question. I have a 10 year old. She'll be in 6th next year. We weren't in town last August to try for MCYO. She is in book 3/4 suzuki.

I'd guess she's not at the level of play of mcyo chamber orchestra to be accepted but she's far better than the rest of the kids in her school orchestra. She practices 30-60 mins a day. We belong to a church orchestra nearby but it's not that serious either. She's bored in both orchestras with the level of play.

Is there another orchestra that you all would recommend? This is for a kid who likes playing with other people, seems to enjoy the camaraderie with the orchestra kids, but has no plans to do it in college or afterwards or anything. I doubt I could increase her time commitment towards it either (she has other hobbies and sports that she likes and wants to spend time in). Also, I don't think she'd opt for anything competitive or high pressure (just not her personality). We are in MoCo.

PVYO has a lot of slots for strings. My kid plays is a brass player, so I can’t speak to the level of competitiveness among the strings, but in general it’s a well-run orchestra with less competition and pressure than MCYO. The spring concert in the Strathmore concert hall is a great experience.

Does anyone have an idea how Baltimore symphony youth orchestras (BSYO) compare to MCYO?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and related question. I have a 10 year old. She'll be in 6th next year. We weren't in town last August to try for MCYO. She is in book 3/4 suzuki.

I'd guess she's not at the level of play of mcyo chamber orchestra to be accepted but she's far better than the rest of the kids in her school orchestra. She practices 30-60 mins a day. We belong to a church orchestra nearby but it's not that serious either. She's bored in both orchestras with the level of play.

Is there another orchestra that you all would recommend? This is for a kid who likes playing with other people, seems to enjoy the camaraderie with the orchestra kids, but has no plans to do it in college or afterwards or anything. I doubt I could increase her time commitment towards it either (she has other hobbies and sports that she likes and wants to spend time in). Also, I don't think she'd opt for anything competitive or high pressure (just not her personality). We are in MoCo.

Depending on your location, you might also want to check out PVYO, with ensembles rehearsing in Potomac and Rockville: https://www.pvyo.org

Is this orchestra very intense? how many hours practice do the kids do, and does everyone have private lessons? Also, are there any opportunities for participating in festivals (travelling, etc.)? She'd mainly be doing it for having fun, making friends, and also just because she really enjoys violin. We live in Gaithersburg. Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:NP and related question. I have a 10 year old. She'll be in 6th next year. We weren't in town last August to try for MCYO. She is in book 3/4 suzuki.

I'd guess she's not at the level of play of mcyo chamber orchestra to be accepted but she's far better than the rest of the kids in her school orchestra. She practices 30-60 mins a day. We belong to a church orchestra nearby but it's not that serious either. She's bored in both orchestras with the level of play.

Is there another orchestra that you all would recommend? This is for a kid who likes playing with other people, seems to enjoy the camaraderie with the orchestra kids, but has no plans to do it in college or afterwards or anything. I doubt I could increase her time commitment towards it either (she has other hobbies and sports that she likes and wants to spend time in). Also, I don't think she'd opt for anything competitive or high pressure (just not her personality). We are in MoCo.

Depending on your location, you might also want to check out PVYO, with ensembles rehearsing in Potomac and Rockville: https://www.pvyo.org

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is interesting that there seems to be such a focus on violin over other instruments. I am not a music person but as an outsider I don't understand why. My kid chose a difficult brass instrument and I think it worked out really well for him. Not a lot of kids play it so the orchestras are happy he is trying out and they are looking for a reason to take him (vs looking for a reason to reject him because they have so many kids playing his instrument).

All the lower level orchestras are strings only, of which, violin is the dominant instrument (in sheer numbers). Usually, by the time kids are old/skilled enough to be playing in full orchestras, all the petty nonsense is behind them.

if you pick a less common instrument you can avoid a lot of it altogether.

I’m always happy my kid plays the viola. Viola players and parents are much chiller.

Is it hard to switch from viola to violin? My kid is definitely the type that avoids the limelight.

Is your kid already playing violin? Cello is a great option too and can be started at a pretty young age without having to lift up a heavier instrument (i.e. viola).