Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’m giving up on the quote function this morning:

I mean, she’s not wrong. What is more troubling to me is that it’s the same companies who were willfully allowing babies to die outside the United States to pad their bottom lines within our lifetimes. I don’t understand why people can look at a company who knowingly put babies in harms way— and think that they care at all about “our” babies. The formula industry needs to be regulated much, much more aggressively than it is now.

She is not wrong that formula companies are marketing their products? Okay? The point you make about regulation is a separate one. Formula itself is highly regulated do please stop implying that the product itself is unsafe. That is not helpful to families that need to give their babies formula. What is going on right now, in 2023 is a separate issue which neither you nor OP have addressed directly because it is about protecting access to formula, not convincing people to avoid it.

Btw lactivists also knowingly put babies in harms way by insisting that formula supplementation is evil and demanding that women who have undergone major surgery room in with their babies. Why should we trust them about a thing? I honestly think they belong in hell for starving babies

Formula plants with “egregiously unsanitary” conditions do not lead to a safe product and we shouldn’t for one second tolerate the implication that they do:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/25/watch-live-house-grills-fda-commissioner-abbott-executive-on-baby-formula-shortage.html

Stricter regulation meaning more inspections would lead to a safer product. Putting profits above the safety of babies is exactly the same problem now as it was in the 70s-80s.

The plant was shut down, leading to the formula shortage. That is how regulation works.

Do you really think that the amount of money Abbott spent on lobbying has had no impact on their inspections being so infrequent? That seems deeply naive. Further do you really believe the *only* Abbott factory (or Nestle, or the other big one) which is egregiously insanity is the one that was shut down?

Ironically it’s the aggressive breastfeeding promotion that has led to ill knowledge of how to prepare formula. If parents had prepared the contaminated formula properly by sterilizing it with hot water the babies will still be alive. But since no one really teaches how to use formula anymore this happened. Instead of insinuating ill intent by Abbot it’s more likely that it was normal government incompetence, everything is breaking down in the US.

I’m not insinuating ill-intent, I’m saying they care more about money than safety.

They are a business. Formula is not different than coca-cola or baby carrots to them— the intent is to make as cheap a product as possible and sell it to you for the most money possible. They don’t suddenly care because omg it’s for babies.

Yes, and lactation support in hospitals is a huge moneymaker too, and those people don’t care about the health of women or babies either, for the most part.

Guess what? People who have invested interests aren’t interested in who they harm along the way. Welcome to the world.

I would be very interested to see how much money is spent lobbying Congress on behalf of lactation services. This could be an interesting perspective particularly if it rivals the formula industry figures.

I, personally, DGAF how anyone feeds their baby. I am super skeptical, however, of trusting an industry that has already proven time and again it does not care about the safety of babies, in a country which has consistently prioritized putting moms at work at six weeks over reasonable postpartum care.

Oh honey we know you DGAF about anybody but yourself

Weird as I’m the one who seems to care about the babies dying from contaminated formula in the U.S and elsewhere meanwhile PP is on about how she felt bad she didn’t give *her* baby a bottle.

And you can take a hike diminishingly the pain of dehydrated babies

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’m giving up on the quote function this morning:

I mean, she’s not wrong. What is more troubling to me is that it’s the same companies who were willfully allowing babies to die outside the United States to pad their bottom lines within our lifetimes. I don’t understand why people can look at a company who knowingly put babies in harms way— and think that they care at all about “our” babies. The formula industry needs to be regulated much, much more aggressively than it is now.

She is not wrong that formula companies are marketing their products? Okay? The point you make about regulation is a separate one. Formula itself is highly regulated do please stop implying that the product itself is unsafe. That is not helpful to families that need to give their babies formula. What is going on right now, in 2023 is a separate issue which neither you nor OP have addressed directly because it is about protecting access to formula, not convincing people to avoid it.

Btw lactivists also knowingly put babies in harms way by insisting that formula supplementation is evil and demanding that women who have undergone major surgery room in with their babies. Why should we trust them about a thing? I honestly think they belong in hell for starving babies

Formula plants with “egregiously unsanitary” conditions do not lead to a safe product and we shouldn’t for one second tolerate the implication that they do:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/25/watch-live-house-grills-fda-commissioner-abbott-executive-on-baby-formula-shortage.html

Stricter regulation meaning more inspections would lead to a safer product. Putting profits above the safety of babies is exactly the same problem now as it was in the 70s-80s.

The plant was shut down, leading to the formula shortage. That is how regulation works.

Do you really think that the amount of money Abbott spent on lobbying has had no impact on their inspections being so infrequent? That seems deeply naive. Further do you really believe the *only* Abbott factory (or Nestle, or the other big one) which is egregiously insanity is the one that was shut down?

Ironically it’s the aggressive breastfeeding promotion that has led to ill knowledge of how to prepare formula. If parents had prepared the contaminated formula properly by sterilizing it with hot water the babies will still be alive. But since no one really teaches how to use formula anymore this happened. Instead of insinuating ill intent by Abbot it’s more likely that it was normal government incompetence, everything is breaking down in the US.

I’m not insinuating ill-intent, I’m saying they care more about money than safety.

They are a business. Formula is not different than coca-cola or baby carrots to them— the intent is to make as cheap a product as possible and sell it to you for the most money possible. They don’t suddenly care because omg it’s for babies.

Yes, and lactation support in hospitals is a huge moneymaker too, and those people don’t care about the health of women or babies either, for the most part.

Guess what? People who have invested interests aren’t interested in who they harm along the way. Welcome to the world.

I would be very interested to see how much money is spent lobbying Congress on behalf of lactation services. This could be an interesting perspective particularly if it rivals the formula industry figures.

I, personally, DGAF how anyone feeds their baby. I am super skeptical, however, of trusting an industry that has already proven time and again it does not care about the safety of babies, in a country which has consistently prioritized putting moms at work at six weeks over reasonable postpartum care.

Oh honey we know you DGAF about anybody but yourself

Weird as I’m the one who seems to care about the babies dying from contaminated formula in the U.S and elsewhere meanwhile PP is on about how she felt bad she didn’t give *her* baby a bottle.

The contaminated formula was a one time event that was immediately shut down by regulators. Meanwhile babies and mothers continue to suffer under abusive breastfeeding practices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’m giving up on the quote function this morning:

I mean, she’s not wrong. What is more troubling to me is that it’s the same companies who were willfully allowing babies to die outside the United States to pad their bottom lines within our lifetimes. I don’t understand why people can look at a company who knowingly put babies in harms way— and think that they care at all about “our” babies. The formula industry needs to be regulated much, much more aggressively than it is now.

She is not wrong that formula companies are marketing their products? Okay? The point you make about regulation is a separate one. Formula itself is highly regulated do please stop implying that the product itself is unsafe. That is not helpful to families that need to give their babies formula. What is going on right now, in 2023 is a separate issue which neither you nor OP have addressed directly because it is about protecting access to formula, not convincing people to avoid it.

Btw lactivists also knowingly put babies in harms way by insisting that formula supplementation is evil and demanding that women who have undergone major surgery room in with their babies. Why should we trust them about a thing? I honestly think they belong in hell for starving babies

Formula plants with “egregiously unsanitary” conditions do not lead to a safe product and we shouldn’t for one second tolerate the implication that they do:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/25/watch-live-house-grills-fda-commissioner-abbott-executive-on-baby-formula-shortage.html

Stricter regulation meaning more inspections would lead to a safer product. Putting profits above the safety of babies is exactly the same problem now as it was in the 70s-80s.

The plant was shut down, leading to the formula shortage. That is how regulation works.

Do you really think that the amount of money Abbott spent on lobbying has had no impact on their inspections being so infrequent? That seems deeply naive. Further do you really believe the *only* Abbott factory (or Nestle, or the other big one) which is egregiously insanity is the one that was shut down?

Ironically it’s the aggressive breastfeeding promotion that has led to ill knowledge of how to prepare formula. If parents had prepared the contaminated formula properly by sterilizing it with hot water the babies will still be alive. But since no one really teaches how to use formula anymore this happened. Instead of insinuating ill intent by Abbot it’s more likely that it was normal government incompetence, everything is breaking down in the US.

I’m not insinuating ill-intent, I’m saying they care more about money than safety.

They are a business. Formula is not different than coca-cola or baby carrots to them— the intent is to make as cheap a product as possible and sell it to you for the most money possible. They don’t suddenly care because omg it’s for babies.

Yes, and lactation support in hospitals is a huge moneymaker too, and those people don’t care about the health of women or babies either, for the most part.

Guess what? People who have invested interests aren’t interested in who they harm along the way. Welcome to the world.

I would be very interested to see how much money is spent lobbying Congress on behalf of lactation services. This could be an interesting perspective particularly if it rivals the formula industry figures.

I, personally, DGAF how anyone feeds their baby. I am super skeptical, however, of trusting an industry that has already proven time and again it does not care about the safety of babies, in a country which has consistently prioritized putting moms at work at six weeks over reasonable postpartum care.

Oh honey we know you DGAF about anybody but yourself

Weird as I’m the one who seems to care about the babies dying from contaminated formula in the U.S and elsewhere meanwhile PP is on about how she felt bad she didn’t give *her* baby a bottle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’m giving up on the quote function this morning:

I mean, she’s not wrong. What is more troubling to me is that it’s the same companies who were willfully allowing babies to die outside the United States to pad their bottom lines within our lifetimes. I don’t understand why people can look at a company who knowingly put babies in harms way— and think that they care at all about “our” babies. The formula industry needs to be regulated much, much more aggressively than it is now.

She is not wrong that formula companies are marketing their products? Okay? The point you make about regulation is a separate one. Formula itself is highly regulated do please stop implying that the product itself is unsafe. That is not helpful to families that need to give their babies formula. What is going on right now, in 2023 is a separate issue which neither you nor OP have addressed directly because it is about protecting access to formula, not convincing people to avoid it.

Btw lactivists also knowingly put babies in harms way by insisting that formula supplementation is evil and demanding that women who have undergone major surgery room in with their babies. Why should we trust them about a thing? I honestly think they belong in hell for starving babies

Formula plants with “egregiously unsanitary” conditions do not lead to a safe product and we shouldn’t for one second tolerate the implication that they do:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/25/watch-live-house-grills-fda-commissioner-abbott-executive-on-baby-formula-shortage.html

Stricter regulation meaning more inspections would lead to a safer product. Putting profits above the safety of babies is exactly the same problem now as it was in the 70s-80s.

The plant was shut down, leading to the formula shortage. That is how regulation works.

Do you really think that the amount of money Abbott spent on lobbying has had no impact on their inspections being so infrequent? That seems deeply naive. Further do you really believe the *only* Abbott factory (or Nestle, or the other big one) which is egregiously insanity is the one that was shut down?

Ironically it’s the aggressive breastfeeding promotion that has led to ill knowledge of how to prepare formula. If parents had prepared the contaminated formula properly by sterilizing it with hot water the babies will still be alive. But since no one really teaches how to use formula anymore this happened. Instead of insinuating ill intent by Abbot it’s more likely that it was normal government incompetence, everything is breaking down in the US.

I’m not insinuating ill-intent, I’m saying they care more about money than safety.

They are a business. Formula is not different than coca-cola or baby carrots to them— the intent is to make as cheap a product as possible and sell it to you for the most money possible. They don’t suddenly care because omg it’s for babies.

Yes, and lactation support in hospitals is a huge moneymaker too, and those people don’t care about the health of women or babies either, for the most part.

Guess what? People who have invested interests aren’t interested in who they harm along the way. Welcome to the world.

I would be very interested to see how much money is spent lobbying Congress on behalf of lactation services. This could be an interesting perspective particularly if it rivals the formula industry figures.

I, personally, DGAF how anyone feeds their baby. I am super skeptical, however, of trusting an industry that has already proven time and again it does not care about the safety of babies, in a country which has consistently prioritized putting moms at work at six weeks over reasonable postpartum care.

Oh honey we know you DGAF about anybody but yourself

Weird as I’m the one who seems to care about the babies dying from contaminated formula in the U.S and elsewhere meanwhile PP is on about how she felt bad she didn’t give *her* baby a bottle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’m giving up on the quote function this morning:

I mean, she’s not wrong. What is more troubling to me is that it’s the same companies who were willfully allowing babies to die outside the United States to pad their bottom lines within our lifetimes. I don’t understand why people can look at a company who knowingly put babies in harms way— and think that they care at all about “our” babies. The formula industry needs to be regulated much, much more aggressively than it is now.

She is not wrong that formula companies are marketing their products? Okay? The point you make about regulation is a separate one. Formula itself is highly regulated do please stop implying that the product itself is unsafe. That is not helpful to families that need to give their babies formula. What is going on right now, in 2023 is a separate issue which neither you nor OP have addressed directly because it is about protecting access to formula, not convincing people to avoid it.

Btw lactivists also knowingly put babies in harms way by insisting that formula supplementation is evil and demanding that women who have undergone major surgery room in with their babies. Why should we trust them about a thing? I honestly think they belong in hell for starving babies

Formula plants with “egregiously unsanitary” conditions do not lead to a safe product and we shouldn’t for one second tolerate the implication that they do:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/25/watch-live-house-grills-fda-commissioner-abbott-executive-on-baby-formula-shortage.html

Stricter regulation meaning more inspections would lead to a safer product. Putting profits above the safety of babies is exactly the same problem now as it was in the 70s-80s.

The plant was shut down, leading to the formula shortage. That is how regulation works.

Do you really think that the amount of money Abbott spent on lobbying has had no impact on their inspections being so infrequent? That seems deeply naive. Further do you really believe the *only* Abbott factory (or Nestle, or the other big one) which is egregiously insanity is the one that was shut down?

Ironically it’s the aggressive breastfeeding promotion that has led to ill knowledge of how to prepare formula. If parents had prepared the contaminated formula properly by sterilizing it with hot water the babies will still be alive. But since no one really teaches how to use formula anymore this happened. Instead of insinuating ill intent by Abbot it’s more likely that it was normal government incompetence, everything is breaking down in the US.

I’m not insinuating ill-intent, I’m saying they care more about money than safety.

They are a business. Formula is not different than coca-cola or baby carrots to them— the intent is to make as cheap a product as possible and sell it to you for the most money possible. They don’t suddenly care because omg it’s for babies.

Yes, and lactation support in hospitals is a huge moneymaker too, and those people don’t care about the health of women or babies either, for the most part.

Guess what? People who have invested interests aren’t interested in who they harm along the way. Welcome to the world.

I would be very interested to see how much money is spent lobbying Congress on behalf of lactation services. This could be an interesting perspective particularly if it rivals the formula industry figures.

I, personally, DGAF how anyone feeds their baby. I am super skeptical, however, of trusting an industry that has already proven time and again it does not care about the safety of babies, in a country which has consistently prioritized putting moms at work at six weeks over reasonable postpartum care.

Oh honey we know you DGAF about anybody but yourself

Anonymous wrote:The Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative was created by the WHO and UNICEF. For Baby-Friendly USA, the chair of the board of directors is Theresa Landau who is also the Chairperson of the NYC Breastfeeding Leadership Council, Inc., the Co-Chair of the Bronx Breastfeeding Coalition and is on the Executive Committee of New York Statewide Breastfeeding Coalition.

According to Baby-Friendly USA, the "10 Steps to Successful Breastfeeding" includes "7. Enable mothers and their infants to remain together and to practice rooming-in 24 hours a day."

Like all lactivists they always frame the things they aggressively push as the woman's choice, when in practice the mother is either being guilted into it or not given a choice. When I toured Holy Cross Hospital before my child was born they proudly described how they strongly discourage new moms from sending their babies to the nursery.

Stop acting like this whole thing wasn't started by breastfeeding advocates. It's an obvious lie (typical of breastfeeding advocates).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop harping about what what Nestle did in the 1980s when it is now 2023. The baby friendly initiative is the new Nestle. And even if aggressive breastfeeding promotion may be more justified in other developing countries it does not justify the immense pressure in this country. So much harm in the past two decades making babies go hungry in the name of breastfeeding.

Stop harping on Nestle…a company promoting a food for babies… knowingly endangering and killing babies? Really. Is it because they were black and poor that we should stop harping? Or because it hurts your feelings that the company making billions doesn’t actually care about the safety of your child?

Because they harmed babies forty fifty years ago. What is harming babies now is the unethical paternalistic and sometimes colonial aggressive push of breastfeeding. Since my child dehydrated when I was a first time mom why yes I feel strongly about it.

I'm sorry you had that experience, it must have been scary. But I think BF-vs.-Formula Moms is a manufactured debate that pulls focus from the real societal issues that many PPs have brought up here: clean water. food safety. maternity leave. hospital and post-partum support for new parents. Formula is a blessing for moms who can't BF for whatever reason. Anecdotally, being able to BF relatively easily was a blessing *for me* when my older DD had myriad protein intolerances that would have made formula feeding extremely difficult and expensive (and may not have even worked while her immature GI tract was so wrecked). It's not surprising that companies want to sell more product and dodge regulations. It's not surprising that industry/society wants women to return to working ASAP and not be hamstrung by a nursing infant. But we don't have to accept those things as inevitable, because they obviously have bad outcomes for babies and families regardless of how the babies ultimately end up fed.

Many women WANT to return to work. Breastfeeding advocates are sexist POSs that do everything in their power to make that process as difficult as possible. They can go F&CK themselves.

Wow, you've got a lot of pent up feelings.

"Stop being so emotional, women are so hysterical."

Not women, just you. Whatever your sex.

I’m not that PP but she was right to call you out for your sexism. You should work on that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop harping about what what Nestle did in the 1980s when it is now 2023. The baby friendly initiative is the new Nestle. And even if aggressive breastfeeding promotion may be more justified in other developing countries it does not justify the immense pressure in this country. So much harm in the past two decades making babies go hungry in the name of breastfeeding.

Stop harping on Nestle…a company promoting a food for babies… knowingly endangering and killing babies? Really. Is it because they were black and poor that we should stop harping? Or because it hurts your feelings that the company making billions doesn’t actually care about the safety of your child?

Because they harmed babies forty fifty years ago. What is harming babies now is the unethical paternalistic and sometimes colonial aggressive push of breastfeeding. Since my child dehydrated when I was a first time mom why yes I feel strongly about it.

I'm sorry you had that experience, it must have been scary. But I think BF-vs.-Formula Moms is a manufactured debate that pulls focus from the real societal issues that many PPs have brought up here: clean water. food safety. maternity leave. hospital and post-partum support for new parents. Formula is a blessing for moms who can't BF for whatever reason. Anecdotally, being able to BF relatively easily was a blessing *for me* when my older DD had myriad protein intolerances that would have made formula feeding extremely difficult and expensive (and may not have even worked while her immature GI tract was so wrecked). It's not surprising that companies want to sell more product and dodge regulations. It's not surprising that industry/society wants women to return to working ASAP and not be hamstrung by a nursing infant. But we don't have to accept those things as inevitable, because they obviously have bad outcomes for babies and families regardless of how the babies ultimately end up fed.

Many women WANT to return to work. Breastfeeding advocates are sexist POSs that do everything in their power to make that process as difficult as possible. They can go F&CK themselves.

Wow, you've got a lot of pent up feelings.

"Stop being so emotional, women are so hysterical."

Not women, just you. Whatever your sex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop harping about what what Nestle did in the 1980s when it is now 2023. The baby friendly initiative is the new Nestle. And even if aggressive breastfeeding promotion may be more justified in other developing countries it does not justify the immense pressure in this country. So much harm in the past two decades making babies go hungry in the name of breastfeeding.

Stop harping on Nestle…a company promoting a food for babies… knowingly endangering and killing babies? Really. Is it because they were black and poor that we should stop harping? Or because it hurts your feelings that the company making billions doesn’t actually care about the safety of your child?

Because they harmed babies forty fifty years ago. What is harming babies now is the unethical paternalistic and sometimes colonial aggressive push of breastfeeding. Since my child dehydrated when I was a first time mom why yes I feel strongly about it.

I'm sorry you had that experience, it must have been scary. But I think BF-vs.-Formula Moms is a manufactured debate that pulls focus from the real societal issues that many PPs have brought up here: clean water. food safety. maternity leave. hospital and post-partum support for new parents. Formula is a blessing for moms who can't BF for whatever reason. Anecdotally, being able to BF relatively easily was a blessing *for me* when my older DD had myriad protein intolerances that would have made formula feeding extremely difficult and expensive (and may not have even worked while her immature GI tract was so wrecked). It's not surprising that companies want to sell more product and dodge regulations. It's not surprising that industry/society wants women to return to working ASAP and not be hamstrung by a nursing infant. But we don't have to accept those things as inevitable, because they obviously have bad outcomes for babies and families regardless of how the babies ultimately end up fed.

Many women WANT to return to work. Breastfeeding advocates are sexist POSs that do everything in their power to make that process as difficult as possible. They can go F&CK themselves.

Wow, you've got a lot of pent up feelings.

"Stop being so emotional, women are so hysterical."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop harping about what what Nestle did in the 1980s when it is now 2023. The baby friendly initiative is the new Nestle. And even if aggressive breastfeeding promotion may be more justified in other developing countries it does not justify the immense pressure in this country. So much harm in the past two decades making babies go hungry in the name of breastfeeding.

Stop harping on Nestle…a company promoting a food for babies… knowingly endangering and killing babies? Really. Is it because they were black and poor that we should stop harping? Or because it hurts your feelings that the company making billions doesn’t actually care about the safety of your child?

Because they harmed babies forty fifty years ago. What is harming babies now is the unethical paternalistic and sometimes colonial aggressive push of breastfeeding. Since my child dehydrated when I was a first time mom why yes I feel strongly about it.

I'm sorry you had that experience, it must have been scary. But I think BF-vs.-Formula Moms is a manufactured debate that pulls focus from the real societal issues that many PPs have brought up here: clean water. food safety. maternity leave. hospital and post-partum support for new parents. Formula is a blessing for moms who can't BF for whatever reason. Anecdotally, being able to BF relatively easily was a blessing *for me* when my older DD had myriad protein intolerances that would have made formula feeding extremely difficult and expensive (and may not have even worked while her immature GI tract was so wrecked). It's not surprising that companies want to sell more product and dodge regulations. It's not surprising that industry/society wants women to return to working ASAP and not be hamstrung by a nursing infant. But we don't have to accept those things as inevitable, because they obviously have bad outcomes for babies and families regardless of how the babies ultimately end up fed.

Many women WANT to return to work. Breastfeeding advocates are sexist POSs that do everything in their power to make that process as difficult as possible. They can go F&CK themselves.

Wow, you've got a lot of pent up feelings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’m giving up on the quote function this morning:

I mean, she’s not wrong. What is more troubling to me is that it’s the same companies who were willfully allowing babies to die outside the United States to pad their bottom lines within our lifetimes. I don’t understand why people can look at a company who knowingly put babies in harms way— and think that they care at all about “our” babies. The formula industry needs to be regulated much, much more aggressively than it is now.

She is not wrong that formula companies are marketing their products? Okay? The point you make about regulation is a separate one. Formula itself is highly regulated do please stop implying that the product itself is unsafe. That is not helpful to families that need to give their babies formula. What is going on right now, in 2023 is a separate issue which neither you nor OP have addressed directly because it is about protecting access to formula, not convincing people to avoid it.

Btw lactivists also knowingly put babies in harms way by insisting that formula supplementation is evil and demanding that women who have undergone major surgery room in with their babies. Why should we trust them about a thing? I honestly think they belong in hell for starving babies

Formula plants with “egregiously unsanitary” conditions do not lead to a safe product and we shouldn’t for one second tolerate the implication that they do:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/25/watch-live-house-grills-fda-commissioner-abbott-executive-on-baby-formula-shortage.html

Stricter regulation meaning more inspections would lead to a safer product. Putting profits above the safety of babies is exactly the same problem now as it was in the 70s-80s.

The plant was shut down, leading to the formula shortage. That is how regulation works.

Do you really think that the amount of money Abbott spent on lobbying has had no impact on their inspections being so infrequent? That seems deeply naive. Further do you really believe the *only* Abbott factory (or Nestle, or the other big one) which is egregiously insanity is the one that was shut down?

Ironically it’s the aggressive breastfeeding promotion that has led to ill knowledge of how to prepare formula. If parents had prepared the contaminated formula properly by sterilizing it with hot water the babies will still be alive. But since no one really teaches how to use formula anymore this happened. Instead of insinuating ill intent by Abbot it’s more likely that it was normal government incompetence, everything is breaking down in the US.

I’m not insinuating ill-intent, I’m saying they care more about money than safety.

They are a business. Formula is not different than coca-cola or baby carrots to them— the intent is to make as cheap a product as possible and sell it to you for the most money possible. They don’t suddenly care because omg it’s for babies.

Yes, and lactation support in hospitals is a huge moneymaker too, and those people don’t care about the health of women or babies either, for the most part.

Guess what? People who have invested interests aren’t interested in who they harm along the way. Welcome to the world.

I would be very interested to see how much money is spent lobbying Congress on behalf of lactation services. This could be an interesting perspective particularly if it rivals the formula industry figures.

I, personally, DGAF how anyone feeds their baby. I am super skeptical, however, of trusting an industry that has already proven time and again it does not care about the safety of babies, in a country which has consistently prioritized putting moms at work at six weeks over reasonable postpartum care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop harping about what what Nestle did in the 1980s when it is now 2023. The baby friendly initiative is the new Nestle. And even if aggressive breastfeeding promotion may be more justified in other developing countries it does not justify the immense pressure in this country. So much harm in the past two decades making babies go hungry in the name of breastfeeding.

Stop harping on Nestle…a company promoting a food for babies… knowingly endangering and killing babies? Really. Is it because they were black and poor that we should stop harping? Or because it hurts your feelings that the company making billions doesn’t actually care about the safety of your child?

Because they harmed babies forty fifty years ago. What is harming babies now is the unethical paternalistic and sometimes colonial aggressive push of breastfeeding. Since my child dehydrated when I was a first time mom why yes I feel strongly about it.

I'm sorry you had that experience, it must have been scary. But I think BF-vs.-Formula Moms is a manufactured debate that pulls focus from the real societal issues that many PPs have brought up here: clean water. food safety. maternity leave. hospital and post-partum support for new parents. Formula is a blessing for moms who can't BF for whatever reason. Anecdotally, being able to BF relatively easily was a blessing *for me* when my older DD had myriad protein intolerances that would have made formula feeding extremely difficult and expensive (and may not have even worked while her immature GI tract was so wrecked). It's not surprising that companies want to sell more product and dodge regulations. It's not surprising that industry/society wants women to return to working ASAP and not be hamstrung by a nursing infant. But we don't have to accept those things as inevitable, because they obviously have bad outcomes for babies and families regardless of how the babies ultimately end up fed.

Many women WANT to return to work. Breastfeeding advocates are sexist POSs that do everything in their power to make that process as difficult as possible. They can go F&CK themselves.

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Anonymous wrote:Ok I’m giving up on the quote function this morning:

I mean, she’s not wrong. What is more troubling to me is that it’s the same companies who were willfully allowing babies to die outside the United States to pad their bottom lines within our lifetimes. I don’t understand why people can look at a company who knowingly put babies in harms way— and think that they care at all about “our” babies. The formula industry needs to be regulated much, much more aggressively than it is now.

She is not wrong that formula companies are marketing their products? Okay? The point you make about regulation is a separate one. Formula itself is highly regulated do please stop implying that the product itself is unsafe. That is not helpful to families that need to give their babies formula. What is going on right now, in 2023 is a separate issue which neither you nor OP have addressed directly because it is about protecting access to formula, not convincing people to avoid it.

Btw lactivists also knowingly put babies in harms way by insisting that formula supplementation is evil and demanding that women who have undergone major surgery room in with their babies. Why should we trust them about a thing? I honestly think they belong in hell for starving babies

Formula plants with “egregiously unsanitary” conditions do not lead to a safe product and we shouldn’t for one second tolerate the implication that they do:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/25/watch-live-house-grills-fda-commissioner-abbott-executive-on-baby-formula-shortage.html

Stricter regulation meaning more inspections would lead to a safer product. Putting profits above the safety of babies is exactly the same problem now as it was in the 70s-80s.

The plant was shut down, leading to the formula shortage. That is how regulation works.

Do you really think that the amount of money Abbott spent on lobbying has had no impact on their inspections being so infrequent? That seems deeply naive. Further do you really believe the *only* Abbott factory (or Nestle, or the other big one) which is egregiously insanity is the one that was shut down?

Ironically it’s the aggressive breastfeeding promotion that has led to ill knowledge of how to prepare formula. If parents had prepared the contaminated formula properly by sterilizing it with hot water the babies will still be alive. But since no one really teaches how to use formula anymore this happened. Instead of insinuating ill intent by Abbot it’s more likely that it was normal government incompetence, everything is breaking down in the US.

I’m not insinuating ill-intent, I’m saying they care more about money than safety.

They are a business. Formula is not different than coca-cola or baby carrots to them— the intent is to make as cheap a product as possible and sell it to you for the most money possible. They don’t suddenly care because omg it’s for babies.

Yes, and lactation support in hospitals is a huge moneymaker too, and those people don’t care about the health of women or babies either, for the most part.

Guess what? People who have invested interests aren’t interested in who they harm along the way. Welcome to the world.

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Anonymous wrote:Stop harping about what what Nestle did in the 1980s when it is now 2023. The baby friendly initiative is the new Nestle. And even if aggressive breastfeeding promotion may be more justified in other developing countries it does not justify the immense pressure in this country. So much harm in the past two decades making babies go hungry in the name of breastfeeding.

Stop harping on Nestle…a company promoting a food for babies… knowingly endangering and killing babies? Really. Is it because they were black and poor that we should stop harping? Or because it hurts your feelings that the company making billions doesn’t actually care about the safety of your child?

Because they harmed babies forty fifty years ago. What is harming babies now is the unethical paternalistic and sometimes colonial aggressive push of breastfeeding. Since my child dehydrated when I was a first time mom why yes I feel strongly about it.

They killed babies thirty years ago and have continued many of their same practices. Yes you didn’t see those babies.

Your guilt over letting your baby become dehydrated is understandable and I’m sorry you did not feel able to give your child formula, but your faith in major companies to have the best interests of children in mind over profits is misplaced.

DP You are a disgusting, abusive troll who makes the world a worse.