Anonymous wrote:Back to the picture of Mohammed, I'm the OP and still fascinated by the entire story. Has she been rehired? Where can I find follow up news of this situation?

There is no follow up. Every tweet that they send out has replies filled with pictures of Mohammed, I'm wondering how long the trolling will last

Back to the picture of Mohammed, I'm the OP and still fascinated by the entire story. Has she been rehired? Where can I find follow up news of this situation?

Anonymous wrote:The firing of the professor is outrageous. I’d hope the ACLU finds its backbone and gets involved. They lost their way several years ago though so not hopeful. FIRE (the new ACLU, basically) has done a lot of good work. I hope they step up and represent the professor in suing the school. https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/ronald-kl-collins-first-amendment-news

Who is fire?

Anonymous wrote:Remember when they had the Mohammed drawing contest in Texas a few years back? So crazy!

Surprise surprise, two non law abiding persons showed up with AK47s and got blasted by a cop with a pea shooter.

The person who organized it is still in hiding

Anonymous wrote:Remember when they had the Mohammed drawing contest in Texas a few years back? So crazy!

Surprise surprise, two non law abiding persons showed up with AK47s and got blasted by a cop with a pea shooter.

What this essentially means it's that people are afraid of criticizing Muslims or Islam.

Anonymous wrote:Remember when they had the Mohammed drawing contest in Texas a few years back? So crazy!

Surprise surprise, two non law abiding persons showed up with AK47s and got blasted by a cop with a pea shooter.

That was deliberately provocative, nothing like this professor. Not defending the goons who showed up with AK47s, though.

Remember when they had the Mohammed drawing contest in Texas a few years back? So crazy!

Surprise surprise, two non law abiding persons showed up with AK47s and got blasted by a cop with a pea shooter.

The firing of the professor is outrageous. I’d hope the ACLU finds its backbone and gets involved. They lost their way several years ago though so not hopeful. FIRE (the new ACLU, basically) has done a lot of good work. I hope they step up and represent the professor in suing the school. https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/ronald-kl-collins-first-amendment-news

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Apparently this is terribly offensive. Why is that? The oldest pictures are Muslim?

And how can we tell more Americans so they don't accidentally upset people?

So, I'm not going to show a picture just to try to upset people, but this isn't that case and I can't believe the university fired this professor.

So much for moderate Muslims.

Actual, I've read several Muslims condemning the university and supporting the teacher.

The president of the Muslim Student Association is the one who got the ball rolling on her dismissal

The Hamline University MSA doesn't speak for all Muslims.

Which ones doesn't it speak for? I haven't seen any Muslim complain

The NY Times article somebody linked to above quotes a Muslim complaining. There's even a photo of him with his painting of Mohammed that he smuggled out of Iran during the revolution.

Interestingly, this was an online class. Making it even easier for the student to look away after being warned. Some in the NY Times comments section are comparing this to entrapment: the student was given multiple warnings but chose to remain and then criticize the prof after the fact.

The bigger issue is, should we stop teaching and testing kids about evolution so as not to offend creationists in all religions? Where does it end?

of course, that same article quotes the executive director of the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations as supporting the dismissal. As far as where does it end, probably with a tiny school that is already struggling having an even harder time convincing students to attend.

That's the same CAIR another poster claims is nuanced

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently this is terribly offensive. Why is that? The oldest pictures are Muslim?

And how can we tell more Americans so they don't accidentally upset people?

So, I'm not going to show a picture just to try to upset people, but this isn't that case and I can't believe the university fired this professor.

So much for moderate Muslims.

Actual, I've read several Muslims condemning the university and supporting the teacher.

The president of the Muslim Student Association is the one who got the ball rolling on her dismissal

The Hamline University MSA doesn't speak for all Muslims.

Which ones doesn't it speak for? I haven't seen any Muslim complain

The NY Times article somebody linked to above quotes a Muslim complaining. There's even a photo of him with his painting of Mohammed that he smuggled out of Iran during the revolution.

Interestingly, this was an online class. Making it even easier for the student to look away after being warned. Some in the NY Times comments section are comparing this to entrapment: the student was given multiple warnings but chose to remain and then criticize the prof after the fact.

The bigger issue is, should we stop teaching and testing kids about evolution so as not to offend creationists in all religions? Where does it end?

of course, that same article quotes the executive director of the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations as supporting the dismissal. As far as where does it end, probably with a tiny school that is already struggling having an even harder time convincing students to attend.

You neglected to mention that the same article quotes CAIR's national rep giving a much more nuanced view.

Edward Ahmed Mitchell, the deputy executive director of the national chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said that he did not have enough information to comment on the Hamline dispute. But while his group discourages visual depictions of the prophet, he said that there was a difference between an act that was un-Islamic and one that was Islamophobic.

“If you drink a beer in front of me, you’re doing something that is un-Islamic, but it’s not Islamophobic,” he said. “If you drink a beer in front of me because you’re deliberately trying to offend me, well then, maybe that has an intent factor.”

“Intent and circumstances matter,” he said, “especially in a university setting, where academic freedom is critical and professors often address sensitive and controversial topics.”

This post is at the top of The NY Times comments section and resonated with me.

Racism and Islamophobia are real (as are sexism, homophobia, transphobia, anti-semitism....the list goes on.) And so is the trauma those things cause.

None of the above absolves those who are unfortunately affected by them from personal responsibility and choice.

As someone who treats trauma, this is a tricky line to navigate with clients who have been victimized, and because of this view the world through the lens of 'victim/perpetrator'; they are frequently upset, offended, and angry about how others behave towards them. But trauma also creates 'blinders', they often do not see their own agency or choices (even if clearly presented) when they find themselves in uncomfortable and/or emotionally disturbing situtations. They simply revert to feeling victimized, and helpless.

This discussion needs to expand into the more general realm of how to support those who feel victimized even when little to no evidence exists that this was the intent and there are abundant alternative (and legitimate) perspectives. And yet: their victimization is real, in the general sense. And so is their experience.

I support freedom of expression, and it's clear this young woman had plenty of opportunities to avoid being offended here. But I wonder if she actually saw them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently this is terribly offensive. Why is that? The oldest pictures are Muslim?

And how can we tell more Americans so they don't accidentally upset people?

So, I'm not going to show a picture just to try to upset people, but this isn't that case and I can't believe the university fired this professor.

So much for moderate Muslims.

Actual, I've read several Muslims condemning the university and supporting the teacher.

The president of the Muslim Student Association is the one who got the ball rolling on her dismissal

The Hamline University MSA doesn't speak for all Muslims.

Which ones doesn't it speak for? I haven't seen any Muslim complain

I am offended as a Muslim. In choosing to label this image of Muhammad as Islamophobic, in endorsing the view that figurative representations of the Prophet are prohibited in Islam, Hamline has privileged a most extreme and conservative Muslim point of view
Professor Amna Khalid, who supports the fired Hamline professor

Thank you for posting.

Truthfully, it's more of a sign of how self absorbed children are today than anything else.

It's not completely clear, but I think somebody posted this as a cite from Dr. Khalid?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently this is terribly offensive. Why is that? The oldest pictures are Muslim?

And how can we tell more Americans so they don't accidentally upset people?

So, I'm not going to show a picture just to try to upset people, but this isn't that case and I can't believe the university fired this professor.

So much for moderate Muslims.

Actual, I've read several Muslims condemning the university and supporting the teacher.

The president of the Muslim Student Association is the one who got the ball rolling on her dismissal

The Hamline University MSA doesn't speak for all Muslims.

Which ones doesn't it speak for? I haven't seen any Muslim complain

The NY Times article somebody linked to above quotes a Muslim complaining. There's even a photo of him with his painting of Mohammed that he smuggled out of Iran during the revolution.

Interestingly, this was an online class. Making it even easier for the student to look away after being warned. Some in the NY Times comments section are comparing this to entrapment: the student was given multiple warnings but chose to remain and then criticize the prof after the fact.

The bigger issue is, should we stop teaching and testing kids about evolution so as not to offend creationists in all religions? Where does it end?

of course, that same article quotes the executive director of the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations as supporting the dismissal. As far as where does it end, probably with a tiny school that is already struggling having an even harder time convincing students to attend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently this is terribly offensive. Why is that? The oldest pictures are Muslim?

And how can we tell more Americans so they don't accidentally upset people?

So, I'm not going to show a picture just to try to upset people, but this isn't that case and I can't believe the university fired this professor.

So much for moderate Muslims.

Actual, I've read several Muslims condemning the university and supporting the teacher.

The president of the Muslim Student Association is the one who got the ball rolling on her dismissal

The Hamline University MSA doesn't speak for all Muslims.

Which ones doesn't it speak for? I haven't seen any Muslim complain

I am offended as a Muslim. In choosing to label this image of Muhammad as Islamophobic, in endorsing the view that figurative representations of the Prophet are prohibited in Islam, Hamline has privileged a most extreme and conservative Muslim point of view
Professor Amna Khalid, who supports the fired Hamline professor

Thank you for posting.

Truthfully, it's more of a sign of how self absorbed children are today than anything else.

+1, except that I think it's more about how much power the most militant and vocal young people who cannot or refuse to consider nuance or other views wield in spaces like college campuses.

This incident is a useful example for a left-leaning forum like this one. Letting this professor go, despite her efforts to be respectful and to allow any student to opt-out, demonstrates the harm caused by capitulating to every complaint or offense taken by a member of a protected group to avoid invalidating their "lived experience." Not every perceived offense or slight should be accepted unquestioningly, respected, acknowledged, and acted upon, but that seems to be where we are now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently this is terribly offensive. Why is that? The oldest pictures are Muslim?

And how can we tell more Americans so they don't accidentally upset people?

So, I'm not going to show a picture just to try to upset people, but this isn't that case and I can't believe the university fired this professor.

So much for moderate Muslims.

Actual, I've read several Muslims condemning the university and supporting the teacher.

The president of the Muslim Student Association is the one who got the ball rolling on her dismissal

The Hamline University MSA doesn't speak for all Muslims.

Which ones doesn't it speak for? I haven't seen any Muslim complain

I am offended as a Muslim. In choosing to label this image of Muhammad as Islamophobic, in endorsing the view that figurative representations of the Prophet are prohibited in Islam, Hamline has privileged a most extreme and conservative Muslim point of view
Professor Amna Khalid, who supports the fired Hamline professor

Thank you for posting.

Truthfully, it's more of a sign of how self absorbed children are today than anything else.