Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For curiosity, I checked the public school district that I went to the '80s and '90s in suburban Boston to see if it is offering honors for all. It is not. Here are the three levels offered - which means that honors really IS honors. So frustrated with MCPS.

Newton, MA offerings:

College Preparatory (CP)
Students working at the college preparatory level are progressing towards greater independence as they tackle content through inquiry, problem solving, critical thinking and reading and writing. In some courses, co-teaching might allow for more individualized attention as students develop these skills.

Advanced College Preparatory (ACP)
Students working at the Advanced College Preparatory level generally approach content with a solid degree of independence through inquiry, problem solving and critical thinking skills. The SAM option in ACP courses enables students who are still developing the skills necessary to succeed in an ACP class the opportunity to take an ACP class. The goal of this program is to allow students to Stretch intellectually, Aim for excellence and Make progress (SAM).

Honors (H)
At the Honors level, students not only approach course content independently, but use their inquiry, problem solving, and critical thinking skills to explore associated topics and themes beyond the scope of the Advanced
College Preparatory curriculum.

Newton MA public school system and MCPS are really very different. I just don't think you can compare them. There is no achievement gap to close in Newton, MA. In fact they bus in 400 poor kids from Boston just to have some diversity. It's pretty easy to see how 20 years later the demographic story of MCPS (and FCPS, a little behind us) has played out. MCPS in its current demographic incarnation will never be like a wealthy community that has independent school districts by town. It is interesting to look at some of their data side by side.

FARMS
MCPS: 39.8% Newton: 18%

ELL:
MCPS: 18% Newton: 6%

Special Ed services: * just based on my own relatives MA seems to have more [free] testing through the schools for learning differences
MCPS: 12.3% Newton: 17%

Newton also seems to have smaller schools period. They have 5,041 ES school students with 15 elementary schools. That is only 336 kids per elementary school. We have giant schools in comparison. MCPS has 72,300 kids in 136 elementary schools. That is 531 per school. You would think with larger schools we'd be able to offer more levels of classes, but that is not the way it panned out.

I do know that honors for all has been discussed at the highschool level for quite a while (well before COVID). My own experience with this is at BCC, but I know that some classes would have both honors level and regular level kids in the same classroom, but, the levels of effort were not really that different. So teachers felt it was quite unfair that the kids who had the "honors" designation were getting the 5 point gpa boost. While the "regular" kids in the same classroom weren't. It also frequently played out that the "regular" kids were generally browner than the honors kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For curiosity, I checked the public school district that I went to the '80s and '90s in suburban Boston to see if it is offering honors for all. It is not. Here are the three levels offered - which means that honors really IS honors. So frustrated with MCPS.

Newton, MA offerings:

College Preparatory (CP)
Students working at the college preparatory level are progressing towards greater independence as they tackle content through inquiry, problem solving, critical thinking and reading and writing. In some courses, co-teaching might allow for more individualized attention as students develop these skills.

Advanced College Preparatory (ACP)
Students working at the Advanced College Preparatory level generally approach content with a solid degree of independence through inquiry, problem solving and critical thinking skills. The SAM option in ACP courses enables students who are still developing the skills necessary to succeed in an ACP class the opportunity to take an ACP class. The goal of this program is to allow students to Stretch intellectually, Aim for excellence and Make progress (SAM).

Honors (H)
At the Honors level, students not only approach course content independently, but use their inquiry, problem solving, and critical thinking skills to explore associated topics and themes beyond the scope of the Advanced
College Preparatory curriculum.

Newton MA public school system and MCPS are really very different. I just don't think you can compare them. There is no achievement gap to close in Newton, MA. In fact they bus in 400 poor kids from Boston just to have some diversity. It's pretty easy to see how 20 years later the demographic story of MCPS (and FCPS, a little behind us) has played out. MCPS in its current demographic incarnation will never be like a wealthy community that has independent school districts by town. It is interesting to look at some of their data side by side.

FARMS
MCPS: 39.8% Newton: 18%

ELL:
MCPS: 18% Newton: 6%

Special Ed services: * just based on my own relatives MA seems to have more [free] testing through the schools for learning differences
MCPS: 12.3% Newton: 17%

Newton also seems to have smaller schools period. They have 5,041 ES school students with 15 elementary schools. That is only 336 kids per elementary school. We have giant schools in comparison. MCPS has 72,300 kids in 136 elementary schools. That is 531 per school. You would think with larger schools we'd be able to offer more levels of classes, but that is not the way it panned out.

I do know that honors for all has been discussed at the highschool level for quite a while (well before COVID). My own experience with this is at BCC, but I know that some classes would have both honors level and regular level kids in the same classroom, but, the levels of effort were not really that different. So teachers felt it was quite unfair that the kids who had the "honors" designation were getting the 5 point gpa boost. While the "regular" kids in the same classroom weren't. It also frequently played out that the "regular" kids were generally browner than the honors kids.

I would be interested in hearing more English teachers' perspectives on how these combined classrooms are working.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS could care less about high performing students. I have had kids in this school system for a LONG time. My own thought is that everything started to go downhill for the neurotypical smart kid when NCLB was passed. NCLB also coincided with a massive influx of poor ESL students and a massive increase in special needs students (at all levels) due to an increase in Autism awareness and testing.

Same here. Parents of high-achieving kids need to figure things out for themselves. MCPS does not want to support them. Not only that, MCPS has stated its main goal as closing the Achievement Gap. It would be in conflict with that goal, if MCPS tried to help the already higher-performing kids to do better.

It’s crazy that the public school system doesn’t do more to nurture, encourage and engage our high performing kids.

The thing is, the gap won't ever close. It exists because some care while others don't. People have different priorities.

How many low-income families of color do you personally know well enough to gauge their priorities?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For curiosity, I checked the public school district that I went to the '80s and '90s in suburban Boston to see if it is offering honors for all. It is not. Here are the three levels offered - which means that honors really IS honors. So frustrated with MCPS.

Newton, MA offerings:

College Preparatory (CP)
Students working at the college preparatory level are progressing towards greater independence as they tackle content through inquiry, problem solving, critical thinking and reading and writing. In some courses, co-teaching might allow for more individualized attention as students develop these skills.

Advanced College Preparatory (ACP)
Students working at the Advanced College Preparatory level generally approach content with a solid degree of independence through inquiry, problem solving and critical thinking skills. The SAM option in ACP courses enables students who are still developing the skills necessary to succeed in an ACP class the opportunity to take an ACP class. The goal of this program is to allow students to Stretch intellectually, Aim for excellence and Make progress (SAM).

Honors (H)
At the Honors level, students not only approach course content independently, but use their inquiry, problem solving, and critical thinking skills to explore associated topics and themes beyond the scope of the Advanced
College Preparatory curriculum.

Newton MA public school system and MCPS are really very different. I just don't think you can compare them. There is no achievement gap to close in Newton, MA. In fact they bus in 400 poor kids from Boston just to have some diversity. It's pretty easy to see how 20 years later the demographic story of MCPS (and FCPS, a little behind us) has played out. MCPS in its current demographic incarnation will never be like a wealthy community that has independent school districts by town. It is interesting to look at some of their data side by side.

FARMS
MCPS: 39.8% Newton: 18%

ELL:
MCPS: 18% Newton: 6%

Special Ed services: * just based on my own relatives MA seems to have more [free] testing through the schools for learning differences
MCPS: 12.3% Newton: 17%

Newton also seems to have smaller schools period. They have 5,041 ES school students with 15 elementary schools. That is only 336 kids per elementary school. We have giant schools in comparison. MCPS has 72,300 kids in 136 elementary schools. That is 531 per school. You would think with larger schools we'd be able to offer more levels of classes, but that is not the way it panned out.

I do know that honors for all has been discussed at the highschool level for quite a while (well before COVID). My own experience with this is at BCC, but I know that some classes would have both honors level and regular level kids in the same classroom, but, the levels of effort were not really that different. So teachers felt it was quite unfair that the kids who had the "honors" designation were getting the 5 point gpa boost. While the "regular" kids in the same classroom weren't. It also frequently played out that the "regular" kids were generally browner than the honors kids.

I would be interested in hearing more English teachers' perspectives on how these combined classrooms are working.

They are not.

First off, class sizes are too large. It’s impossible to provide meaningful feedback on assignments.

And the mixed-ability classrooms make it very hard to offer appropriate differentiation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS could care less about high performing students. I have had kids in this school system for a LONG time. My own thought is that everything started to go downhill for the neurotypical smart kid when NCLB was passed. NCLB also coincided with a massive influx of poor ESL students and a massive increase in special needs students (at all levels) due to an increase in Autism awareness and testing.

Same here. Parents of high-achieving kids need to figure things out for themselves. MCPS does not want to support them. Not only that, MCPS has stated its main goal as closing the Achievement Gap. It would be in conflict with that goal, if MCPS tried to help the already higher-performing kids to do better.

It’s crazy that the public school system doesn’t do more to nurture, encourage and engage our high performing kids.

The thing is, the gap won't ever close. It exists because some care while others don't. People have different priorities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For curiosity, I checked the public school district that I went to the '80s and '90s in suburban Boston to see if it is offering honors for all. It is not. Here are the three levels offered - which means that honors really IS honors. So frustrated with MCPS.

Newton, MA offerings:

College Preparatory (CP)
Students working at the college preparatory level are progressing towards greater independence as they tackle content through inquiry, problem solving, critical thinking and reading and writing. In some courses, co-teaching might allow for more individualized attention as students develop these skills.

Advanced College Preparatory (ACP)
Students working at the Advanced College Preparatory level generally approach content with a solid degree of independence through inquiry, problem solving and critical thinking skills. The SAM option in ACP courses enables students who are still developing the skills necessary to succeed in an ACP class the opportunity to take an ACP class. The goal of this program is to allow students to Stretch intellectually, Aim for excellence and Make progress (SAM).

Honors (H)
At the Honors level, students not only approach course content independently, but use their inquiry, problem solving, and critical thinking skills to explore associated topics and themes beyond the scope of the Advanced
College Preparatory curriculum.

Newton MA public school system and MCPS are really very different. I just don't think you can compare them. There is no achievement gap to close in Newton, MA. In fact they bus in 400 poor kids from Boston just to have some diversity. It's pretty easy to see how 20 years later the demographic story of MCPS (and FCPS, a little behind us) has played out. MCPS in its current demographic incarnation will never be like a wealthy community that has independent school districts by town. It is interesting to look at some of their data side by side.

FARMS
MCPS: 39.8% Newton: 18%

ELL:
MCPS: 18% Newton: 6%

Special Ed services: * just based on my own relatives MA seems to have more [free] testing through the schools for learning differences
MCPS: 12.3% Newton: 17%

Newton also seems to have smaller schools period. They have 5,041 ES school students with 15 elementary schools. That is only 336 kids per elementary school. We have giant schools in comparison. MCPS has 72,300 kids in 136 elementary schools. That is 531 per school. You would think with larger schools we'd be able to offer more levels of classes, but that is not the way it panned out.

I do know that honors for all has been discussed at the highschool level for quite a while (well before COVID). My own experience with this is at BCC, but I know that some classes would have both honors level and regular level kids in the same classroom, but, the levels of effort were not really that different. So teachers felt it was quite unfair that the kids who had the "honors" designation were getting the 5 point gpa boost. While the "regular" kids in the same classroom weren't. It also frequently played out that the "regular" kids were generally browner than the honors kids.

I would be interested in hearing more English teachers' perspectives on how these combined classrooms are working.

They are not.

First off, class sizes are too large. It’s impossible to provide meaningful feedback on assignments.

And the mixed-ability classrooms make it very hard to offer appropriate differentiation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For curiosity, I checked the public school district that I went to the '80s and '90s in suburban Boston to see if it is offering honors for all. It is not. Here are the three levels offered - which means that honors really IS honors. So frustrated with MCPS.

Newton, MA offerings:

College Preparatory (CP)
Students working at the college preparatory level are progressing towards greater independence as they tackle content through inquiry, problem solving, critical thinking and reading and writing. In some courses, co-teaching might allow for more individualized attention as students develop these skills.

Advanced College Preparatory (ACP)
Students working at the Advanced College Preparatory level generally approach content with a solid degree of independence through inquiry, problem solving and critical thinking skills. The SAM option in ACP courses enables students who are still developing the skills necessary to succeed in an ACP class the opportunity to take an ACP class. The goal of this program is to allow students to Stretch intellectually, Aim for excellence and Make progress (SAM).

Honors (H)
At the Honors level, students not only approach course content independently, but use their inquiry, problem solving, and critical thinking skills to explore associated topics and themes beyond the scope of the Advanced
College Preparatory curriculum.

Newton MA public school system and MCPS are really very different. I just don't think you can compare them. There is no achievement gap to close in Newton, MA. In fact they bus in 400 poor kids from Boston just to have some diversity. It's pretty easy to see how 20 years later the demographic story of MCPS (and FCPS, a little behind us) has played out. MCPS in its current demographic incarnation will never be like a wealthy community that has independent school districts by town. It is interesting to look at some of their data side by side.

FARMS
MCPS: 39.8% Newton: 18%

ELL:
MCPS: 18% Newton: 6%

Special Ed services: * just based on my own relatives MA seems to have more [free] testing through the schools for learning differences
MCPS: 12.3% Newton: 17%

Newton also seems to have smaller schools period. They have 5,041 ES school students with 15 elementary schools. That is only 336 kids per elementary school. We have giant schools in comparison. MCPS has 72,300 kids in 136 elementary schools. That is 531 per school. You would think with larger schools we'd be able to offer more levels of classes, but that is not the way it panned out.

I do know that honors for all has been discussed at the highschool level for quite a while (well before COVID). My own experience with this is at BCC, but I know that some classes would have both honors level and regular level kids in the same classroom, but, the levels of effort were not really that different. So teachers felt it was quite unfair that the kids who had the "honors" designation were getting the 5 point gpa boost. While the "regular" kids in the same classroom weren't. It also frequently played out that the "regular" kids were generally browner than the honors kids.

I would be interested in hearing more English teachers' perspectives on how these combined classrooms are working.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For curiosity, I checked the public school district that I went to the '80s and '90s in suburban Boston to see if it is offering honors for all. It is not. Here are the three levels offered - which means that honors really IS honors. So frustrated with MCPS.

Newton, MA offerings:

College Preparatory (CP)
Students working at the college preparatory level are progressing towards greater independence as they tackle content through inquiry, problem solving, critical thinking and reading and writing. In some courses, co-teaching might allow for more individualized attention as students develop these skills.

Advanced College Preparatory (ACP)
Students working at the Advanced College Preparatory level generally approach content with a solid degree of independence through inquiry, problem solving and critical thinking skills. The SAM option in ACP courses enables students who are still developing the skills necessary to succeed in an ACP class the opportunity to take an ACP class. The goal of this program is to allow students to Stretch intellectually, Aim for excellence and Make progress (SAM).

Honors (H)
At the Honors level, students not only approach course content independently, but use their inquiry, problem solving, and critical thinking skills to explore associated topics and themes beyond the scope of the Advanced
College Preparatory curriculum.

Newton MA public school system and MCPS are really very different. I just don't think you can compare them. There is no achievement gap to close in Newton, MA. In fact they bus in 400 poor kids from Boston just to have some diversity. It's pretty easy to see how 20 years later the demographic story of MCPS (and FCPS, a little behind us) has played out. MCPS in its current demographic incarnation will never be like a wealthy community that has independent school districts by town. It is interesting to look at some of their data side by side.

FARMS
MCPS: 39.8% Newton: 18%

ELL:
MCPS: 18% Newton: 6%

Special Ed services: * just based on my own relatives MA seems to have more [free] testing through the schools for learning differences
MCPS: 12.3% Newton: 17%

Newton also seems to have smaller schools period. They have 5,041 ES school students with 15 elementary schools. That is only 336 kids per elementary school. We have giant schools in comparison. MCPS has 72,300 kids in 136 elementary schools. That is 531 per school. You would think with larger schools we'd be able to offer more levels of classes, but that is not the way it panned out.

I do know that honors for all has been discussed at the highschool level for quite a while (well before COVID). My own experience with this is at BCC, but I know that some classes would have both honors level and regular level kids in the same classroom, but, the levels of effort were not really that different. So teachers felt it was quite unfair that the kids who had the "honors" designation were getting the 5 point gpa boost. While the "regular" kids in the same classroom weren't. It also frequently played out that the "regular" kids were generally browner than the honors kids.

Anonymous wrote:For curiosity, I checked the public school district that I went to the '80s and '90s in suburban Boston to see if it is offering honors for all. It is not. Here are the three levels offered - which means that honors really IS honors. So frustrated with MCPS.

Newton, MA offerings:

College Preparatory (CP)
Students working at the college preparatory level are progressing towards greater independence as they tackle content through inquiry, problem solving, critical thinking and reading and writing. In some courses, co-teaching might allow for more individualized attention as students develop these skills.

Advanced College Preparatory (ACP)
Students working at the Advanced College Preparatory level generally approach content with a solid degree of independence through inquiry, problem solving and critical thinking skills. The SAM option in ACP courses enables students who are still developing the skills necessary to succeed in an ACP class the opportunity to take an ACP class. The goal of this program is to allow students to Stretch intellectually, Aim for excellence and Make progress (SAM).

Honors (H)
At the Honors level, students not only approach course content independently, but use their inquiry, problem solving, and critical thinking skills to explore associated topics and themes beyond the scope of the Advanced
College Preparatory curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whats the difference between honors and grade level?

Pace? Difficulty? Work load?

Officially, according to the MCPS course bulletin:

Honors courses provide expectations and opportunities for students to engage in more rigorous and complex content and processes and to develop authentic products that reflect the student’s understanding of key concepts. The curriculum in each Honors course includes appropriate adaptations for enriched learning to pursue in-depth studies that require abstract and higher-order thinking skills.

The issue is that the grade-level courses are often not even offered in the schools, even though they are still listed in the bulletin.

I agree and my daughter would do better and learn in grade level Math. She’s in honors and it’s not the privilege mcps thinks it is if she and other kids are not learning and absorbing the information. Honors for all is not good for advanced learners or for grade level learners.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Einstein HS 9th grader registered for next year’s classes today and told me — surprise to her — the school is taking away “Pre-IB English” and is getting rid of regular English — so everyone, regardless of ability or motivation, will be grouped together in classes dubiously named “Honors English.” Einstein has an International Baccalaureate program in 11th & 12th and the pre-IB classes (a step up from honors) were supposed to prepare students for IB.

Honors for All in Middle School was a disaster. Does anyone know about this? Is this a new MCPS policy?

It's so wonderful to see this true vision of equity realized where all students are advanced!

There are two ways to eliminate the achievement gap; make everything so easy that everyone passes, or make everything so hard that everyone fails. Obviously only the first is viable, so that’s where we’re going.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Einstein HS 9th grader registered for next year’s classes today and told me — surprise to her — the school is taking away “Pre-IB English” and is getting rid of regular English — so everyone, regardless of ability or motivation, will be grouped together in classes dubiously named “Honors English.” Einstein has an International Baccalaureate program in 11th & 12th and the pre-IB classes (a step up from honors) were supposed to prepare students for IB.

Honors for All in Middle School was a disaster. Does anyone know about this? Is this a new MCPS policy?

It's so wonderful to see this true vision of equity realized where all students are advanced!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS could care less about high performing students. I have had kids in this school system for a LONG time. My own thought is that everything started to go downhill for the neurotypical smart kid when NCLB was passed. NCLB also coincided with a massive influx of poor ESL students and a massive increase in special needs students (at all levels) due to an increase in Autism awareness and testing.

Same here. Parents of high-achieving kids need to figure things out for themselves. MCPS does not want to support them. Not only that, MCPS has stated its main goal as closing the Achievement Gap. It would be in conflict with that goal, if MCPS tried to help the already higher-performing kids to do better.

It’s crazy that the public school system doesn’t do more to nurture, encourage and engage our high performing kids.

The thing is, the gap won't ever close. It exists because some care while others don't. People have different priorities.

Pretty sure there’s more to it than simply “not caring.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS could care less about high performing students. I have had kids in this school system for a LONG time. My own thought is that everything started to go downhill for the neurotypical smart kid when NCLB was passed. NCLB also coincided with a massive influx of poor ESL students and a massive increase in special needs students (at all levels) due to an increase in Autism awareness and testing.

Same here. Parents of high-achieving kids need to figure things out for themselves. MCPS does not want to support them. Not only that, MCPS has stated its main goal as closing the Achievement Gap. It would be in conflict with that goal, if MCPS tried to help the already higher-performing kids to do better.

It’s crazy that the public school system doesn’t do more to nurture, encourage and engage our high performing kids.

The thing is, the gap won't ever close. It exists because some care while others don't. People have different priorities.