Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't aware of this. I think surrogacy is probably unethical. Didn't realize about donor.

Surrogacy is completely unethical and banned in all right-thinking countries.

Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about gestational surrogacy.

Spoken like someone with a barren womb who had to rent some poor woman's body to get her pwecious babies.

How gracious of you to talk to a cancer survivor as someone with a “barren womb”

You’re not entitled to a baby.

And you’re not entitled to police what others do.

We can advocate for laws severely restricting this practice.

So go do that instead of prattling on an anonymous forum.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I also agree that people should have a right to know their geentic and biological origins.

So do you support universal genetic testing and data collection by the state to give everyone that right?

That is the only way to do it.

I do agree that it's important for people to have the ability to know their genetic and biological origins.

It is not a human right, however. (Unless you support genetic surveillance of everyone - which I don't)

Designing humans that will never know one biological parent is a human rights violation by design. Preventing this scenario requires ethical laws, not "genetic surveillance".

I think being honest with your kids about their origins is ethical -- research shows that donor conceived children are happier and better adjusted if their donor-conceived status isn't sprung on them unexpectedly during a time of stress. Ensuring they "know" their biological contributors doesn't necessarily enter into it. If someone is abusive to their spouse I don't think preventing a child from knowing their parent's abuser, even if the abuser is a biological parent, is a human rights violation. Similarly, if a woman gets pregnant from a one-night stand, I don't think she has an ethical obligation to tell the biologic father or to get an abortion. She should be free to have and raise the child on her own if that's her preference.

That being said, open ID anonymous gamete donation is a good approach in my opinion -- the donor remains anonymous to the parents but the child has the option to be given their identity and contact information when they (the child) turn 18. I know this is not unheard of for sperm donation; not sure about egg donation but I think it's a good model. Keeps the legality tidy but doesn't cut the child off from their genetic relations.

Interesting that sperm donors can remain anonymous but egg donor parents don’t have the right of privacy for their children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol to the above. I am sure $7k went real far in rhat condo purchase. Donors aren't paid that well anymore

Right. I'm sure she didn't save any other money since it was something important to her. $8K is a lot for a 22 year old and owning a home at that age is a great start to your adult life, if that's what she wanted.

Where does 8k cover a downpayment these days? That she used the money for that speaks to her desperation, it was a way to get ahead.

OP said her child is a teen now. So the donation was 13+ years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol to the above. I am sure $7k went real far in rhat condo purchase. Donors aren't paid that well anymore

Right. I'm sure she didn't save any other money since it was something important to her. $8K is a lot for a 22 year old and owning a home at that age is a great start to your adult life, if that's what she wanted.

Where does 8k cover a downpayment these days? That she used the money for that speaks to her desperation, it was a way to get ahead.

If $8k is 5% down, there are a lot of places you could buy a $160k house or condo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't aware of this. I think surrogacy is probably unethical. Didn't realize about donor.

Surrogacy is completely unethical and banned in all right-thinking countries.

Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about gestational surrogacy.

Spoken like someone with a barren womb who had to rent some poor woman's body to get her pwecious babies.

How gracious of you to talk to a cancer survivor as someone with a “barren womb”

You’re not entitled to a baby.

And you’re not entitled to police what others do.

We can advocate for laws severely restricting this practice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't aware of this. I think surrogacy is probably unethical. Didn't realize about donor.

Surrogacy is completely unethical and banned in all right-thinking countries.

Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about gestational surrogacy.

Spoken like someone with a barren womb who had to rent some poor woman's body to get her pwecious babies.

How gracious of you to talk to a cancer survivor as someone with a “barren womb”

They weren’t wrong, tho.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol to the above. I am sure $7k went real far in rhat condo purchase. Donors aren't paid that well anymore

Right. I'm sure she didn't save any other money since it was something important to her. $8K is a lot for a 22 year old and owning a home at that age is a great start to your adult life, if that's what she wanted.

Where does 8k cover a downpayment these days? That she used the money for that speaks to her desperation, it was a way to get ahead.

Anonymous wrote:Lol to the above. I am sure $7k went real far in rhat condo purchase. Donors aren't paid that well anymore

Right. I'm sure she didn't save any other money since it was something important to her. $8K is a lot for a 22 year old and owning a home at that age is a great start to your adult life, if that's what she wanted.

Lol to the above. I am sure $7k went real far in rhat condo purchase. Donors aren't paid that well anymore

I have a donor egg IVF baby (well, teen now) and I'm immensely grateful to the college senior who donated eggs and used the money to buy a condo when she graduated (good for her!).

I had two miscarriages on my own, 2 failed IVF cycles, 2 IVF cycles where I got pregnant but didn't stay pregnant (so +2 miscarriages) and I was ready to give up and go the adoption route. But my husband is adopted and this baby we were trying to have would be his only chance for a blood relative so we did one more round with donor eggs and ta-da....baby. My adopted husband has zero health information about his birth parents or their health. There are also lots of people in the world who are estranged from family members and don't have all the info they might want. Saying that it such an enormous issue for egg donor babies just isn't the way I see it.

I don't think what I did to have a baby was unethical.

I will say that when my baby was 7 I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and in 2021 I was diagnosed with a brain tumor. My neurosurgeon said that the type I have is more common in women who have gone through IVF *AND* had breast cancer.

If I had known this would have been my story about my own health after IVF, I might have wanted to go the adoption route sooner, but I look at my kid and have no regrets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also agree that people should have a right to know their geentic and biological origins.

So do you support universal genetic testing and data collection by the state to give everyone that right?

That is the only way to do it.

I do agree that it's important for people to have the ability to know their genetic and biological origins.

It is not a human right, however. (Unless you support genetic surveillance of everyone - which I don't)

Designing humans that will never know one biological parent is a human rights violation by design. Preventing this scenario requires ethical laws, not "genetic surveillance".

I think being honest with your kids about their origins is ethical -- research shows that donor conceived children are happier and better adjusted if their donor-conceived status isn't sprung on them unexpectedly during a time of stress. Ensuring they "know" their biological contributors doesn't necessarily enter into it. If someone is abusive to their spouse I don't think preventing a child from knowing their parent's abuser, even if the abuser is a biological parent, is a human rights violation. Similarly, if a woman gets pregnant from a one-night stand, I don't think she has an ethical obligation to tell the biologic father or to get an abortion. She should be free to have and raise the child on her own if that's her preference.

That being said, open ID anonymous gamete donation is a good approach in my opinion -- the donor remains anonymous to the parents but the child has the option to be given their identity and contact information when they (the child) turn 18. I know this is not unheard of for sperm donation; not sure about egg donation but I think it's a good model. Keeps the legality tidy but doesn't cut the child off from their genetic relations.

Sure, whatever mental gymnastics you need to justify your choices. https://www.wearedonorconceived.com/

Did you… read the website you linked? It says what I did: be honest with your kids about their donor conceived status and ensure they have the ability to connect with their donor/donor siblings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also agree that people should have a right to know their geentic and biological origins.

So do you support universal genetic testing and data collection by the state to give everyone that right?

That is the only way to do it.

I do agree that it's important for people to have the ability to know their genetic and biological origins.

It is not a human right, however. (Unless you support genetic surveillance of everyone - which I don't)

Designing humans that will never know one biological parent is a human rights violation by design. Preventing this scenario requires ethical laws, not "genetic surveillance".

Idk how you criminalize one night stands

Equating the the fertility industry with sex isn't helping your argument. People having sex may or may not be intending to make a baby. Some one-night stand dads opt to be involved parents too, so this is like comparing apples and oranges. In contrast, a donor-conceived child is designed to be separated from one biological parent 100% of the time, via a lucrative, exploitative industry that harvests and sells genetic material. I don't need to purchase another woman's eggs to have sex, or pay a doctor to create an unrelated embryo which he then implants in a third woman's uterus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I’m the unethical parents of three beautiful and successful adult children. I’m sure the donor has long ago forgotten the few weeks she spent donating her eggs.

She can still see her scars from it.

What scars? I've done egg retrieval twice and there are no scars. Being the worrier I am, I have always prayed that the egg donor has no adverse health consequences from her donation (most common adverse effect is probably ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome - I actually had it with one of my retrievals) but scarring is not a concern. Do you even know anything about egg retrieval?

Agree with PP that the ethical thing for parents who have used donor gametes to do is tell their kids early so it is always part of their history, use open ID donors so kids have the ability to contact donor at age 18. I didn't use a fresh egg donor (used frozen eggs as an add on to one of my own IVF cycles) but there are certainly ways to write the egg donation contract to ensure ethical treatment of the egg donor.

Yes clinics should do better vetting of donor health histories (I think right now it is solely based on donor self report with no doctors notes/verification but TBH it is easy enough to bypass that so there will always be reliance on the donors to be honest and ethical in reporting their family health histories). Both my donors underwent genetic testing and as the price of whole genome and whole exome sequencing has dropped it might be reasonable to require donors to do that and then save the genome file for the offspring. Thus if there are new discoveries of genetic variants of concern could at least go back to the genome file to see if those are present. That might help those like Laura High.

There are definitely ways to improve the process without manufacturing new human rights that don't exist for any other human.

We won't have to wonder, because IVF will be illegal soon enough. Too many embryos are destroyed.

Anonymous wrote:Yes I’m the unethical parents of three beautiful and successful adult children. I’m sure the donor has long ago forgotten the few weeks she spent donating her eggs.

Really? That's a shit%y thing to say. You should be grateful.