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Anonymous wrote:it's not that he doesn't test well. it's the fact that grades are incredibly inflated. i bet you his test score is where he is, not the grade.

You really are putting too much weight on these tests. It tests speed and different way of thinking than required of some high school classes. LSAT is the same. My DD does very well delving deep into issues and research, good skills for school and work, but won’t show up on an standardized test.

But test is the only tool that normalizes all kids. Put them on the same playing field.

Jaw drop. I thought it was common knowledge that all a school really knows about you if you have a high test score is that you have money.

A variety of things that correlate with test scores -- conscientiousness, intelligence, mental stamina, and sure, we can throw in anxiety -- also correlate with family income. But the correlation between the child's test scores and the parents' income isn't super strong, as is easy to see when you look at how poor asians are able to outscore rich whites.

Lots of college AOs disagree with you.

Perhaps they aren’t familiar with the research that shows that test scores, even when controlled for income, add in a statistically significant way to the predicative power of gpa when the two are considered together, as opposed to gpa alone. But my bet is that many of the admission directors are aware of this.

+1. Even tge studies paid for by the UC Regents showed this. The Regents didn’t want the studies to come out that way but they did and the Refebts went on to abolish testing nonetheless

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He's only taken the SAT once so far, but it was in 1100's, so low for this area.

he is taking almost all APs and got 1100? what did he get on his AP exams? 2s? 1100 is low for any area

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Anonymous wrote:it's not that he doesn't test well. it's the fact that grades are incredibly inflated. i bet you his test score is where he is, not the grade.

You really are putting too much weight on these tests. It tests speed and different way of thinking than required of some high school classes. LSAT is the same. My DD does very well delving deep into issues and research, good skills for school and work, but won’t show up on an standardized test.

But test is the only tool that normalizes all kids. Put them on the same playing field.

Jaw drop. I thought it was common knowledge that all a school really knows about you if you have a high test score is that you have money.

A variety of things that correlate with test scores -- conscientiousness, intelligence, mental stamina, and sure, we can throw in anxiety -- also correlate with family income. But the correlation between the child's test scores and the parents' income isn't super strong, as is easy to see when you look at how poor asians are able to outscore rich whites.

Lots of college AOs disagree with you.

Perhaps they aren’t familiar with the research that shows that test scores, even when controlled for income, add in a statistically significant way to the predicative power of gpa when the two are considered together, as opposed to gpa alone. But my bet is that many of the admission directors are aware of this.

Anonymous wrote:Didn't read the other responses, but grade inflation is alive and well. Your kid probably has been misled that he is prepared for college. He is not.

In this times of having 10% Valedictorians and 25-30% graduating from high schools with perfect GPAs, SATs and AP exams are more objective and informative.

Didn't read the other responses, but grade inflation is alive and well. Your kid probably has been misled that he is prepared for college. He is not.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, what was your kid's last 2 math courses in high school?

OP here. DS is taking very challenging classes-- mostly APs this year. AP Calculus this year.

Is he taking AP Environmental Science, AP Human Geography, AP Psychology, AP US Govt and AP Cal AB? They are the easiest classes with easiest AP math class.

No, he’s not. I’m not going to post his whole schedule, but his courses are quite rigorous.

What is his senior class courses?

Curious as to what the OP's kid scored on all the AP exams. AP Exams show a different skillset, imo. While ACT/SAT is problem solving, logic and applying skills, AP exam is mastery of content.

Does the test anxiety affect those tests too? Or was he able to score 5s? The answer might provide insight on what sort of schools to target.

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Anonymous wrote:Or not putting in the time to do well and focusing on playing sports, for example.

Which could be considered lack of (academic) motivation/lack of focus/distraction. Again, something preventing them from reaching their full potential AS A STUDENT.

DP: I disagree that grades tell you about whether or not a student is reaching their full potential. If you look at what is actually going into a grade, the difference between a B and an A is often a matter of timing and luck or EQ (knowing the teacher). For example, a student gets a problem wrong because they didn't show the work the way the teacher wanted, but nonetheless understands the material; or made a rounding error, but understands the material; or was tired that day due to a late night stage production and ran out time on the in-class essay the next morning, but fully understands the material; or was feeling ill and missed more questions than normal, but fully understands the material; or didn't understand the material on test day, but followed up with the teacher and "got it" by the end of the next day - too late for the grade, but understands the material anyway; and so on. At the end of the year, both students are likely highly conversant with the material and equally well educated, but wrack up very different grades for the class.

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Anonymous wrote:I asked an admissions person once what they saw as red flags. She said kids with high test scores but low grades. She said that means they can do well academically, but something is preventing their optimal performance (lack of motivation, mental health, partying…who knows). She said the school thinks, why wouldn’t those same issues follow them to college?

That’s too bad because it is my kid. No prep 1530 SATs, good grades but not in top 20%. I cannot argue with admissions but his issue entirely organizational skills. He studies but losing track of due dates, gets assignments mixed up. Not all the time but I expect maturing in college will challenge him in this area but also inspire growth. I hope and somewhat expect that he will be a late bloomer. Again, not saying it is unfair but wish admissions would see potential instead of assume laziness.

Executive functioning issues are not laziness. They are more like a learning disability/mental illness. (Not really the latter, but a challenge the kid has to overcome.) Schools just wonder what is up when they see this pattern, and consider it risky. That is the school I was talking to, not all schools mind you.

This profile is where the teacher recommendations are vital and where improved grades by 12th show that the kid is maturing. The teacher recs can also describe a brilliant kid who contributes to the class, takes academic risks, but simply isn't motivated by grades -- this kid is not an academic risk at all and will be fine in any college.

Kids who test poor and get into 99 percentile selective universities will struggle to keep up. Not worth looking for loopholes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what was your kid's last 2 math courses in high school?

OP here. DS is taking very challenging classes-- mostly APs this year. AP Calculus this year.

Is he taking AP Environmental Science, AP Human Geography, AP Psychology, AP US Govt and AP Cal AB? They are the easiest classes with easiest AP math class.

No, he’s not. I’m not going to post his whole schedule, but his courses are quite rigorous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what was your kid's last 2 math courses in high school?

OP here. DS is taking very challenging classes-- mostly APs this year. AP Calculus this year.

Is he taking AP Environmental Science, AP Human Geography, AP Psychology, AP US Govt and AP Cal AB? They are the easiest classes with easiest AP math class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it's not that he doesn't test well. it's the fact that grades are incredibly inflated. i bet you his test score is where he is, not the grade.

You really are putting too much weight on these tests. It tests speed and different way of thinking than required of some high school classes. LSAT is the same. My DD does very well delving deep into issues and research, good skills for school and work, but won’t show up on an standardized test.

But test is the only tool that normalizes all kids. Put them on the same playing field.

Jaw drop. I thought it was common knowledge that all a school really knows about you if you have a high test score is that you have money.

A variety of things that correlate with test scores -- conscientiousness, intelligence, mental stamina, and sure, we can throw in anxiety -- also correlate with family income. But the correlation between the child's test scores and the parents' income isn't super strong, as is easy to see when you look at how poor asians are able to outscore rich whites.

Lots of college AOs disagree with you.

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Anonymous wrote:To OP - I think you said DC took SAT just once and got 1100. Try ACT. Then do test prep on preferred test to see how it goes.

From selecting easiest classes to selecting easier test. OP's kid has to face the reality at some point in life - can't go through life as a snowflake forever.

OP here. I have no idea why you think my son is taking easy classes. To the contrary. Most of his classes this year are APs. I'm not sure why you're so bitter and would accuse a total stranger, about whom you know nothing more than that he has a high GPA and low test scores, of being a snowflake. You might want to think about about your knee jerk reaction to this.

Anonymous wrote:OP, what was your kid's last 2 math courses in high school?

OP here. DS is taking very challenging classes-- mostly APs this year. AP Calculus this year.