Anonymous
11/05/2022 07:51
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.
NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.
Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.
Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.
Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.
Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.
Is anyone arguing not doing this?
My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.
Another selfish point of view and attitude. Of course it matter that people are offended . Would it be ok if someone were to be hit if someone said something that made someone mad, like “baby pigs”? It isn’t ok on any level as other people
Have the right to live in a society with rules also..rules like not being bothered or interrupted or screamed at in public.
Anonymous
11/05/2022 07:37
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
My ASD ds is 9. We have started in the past 6 mos or so talking about “social norms”. Such as “if you are asked a question you dont want to answer, you cant just ignore it and walk away, you have to at least tell the person you dont want to talk about it” or “if you dont get candy you like, you still have to say thank you, you dont have to eat something you don't want but you do have to be polite”. Stuff like that.
Anonymous
11/05/2022 05:53
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.
NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.
Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.
Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.
Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.
Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.
Where is YOUR class?? I would take that!
Private home-based mostly, though have a myriad of other experiences under my belt including teaching “formal” parenting classes. I like home based for these types of situations since they really require 1:1 work as all families are so complex and different.
Currently not working due to caring for elderly parent, but I try to answer DCUM questions when I can. Despite people almost always telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about- I find this quite amusing actually. Hopefully one day I’ll get back to my main love of helping children and families.
Anonymous
11/05/2022 05:28
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.
NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.
Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.
Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.
Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.
Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.
Is anyone arguing not doing this?
My argument is that OP doesn’t need to worry about explaining her child’s “rude” behavior to strangers and I am suggesting that she not worry about that and instead just focus on her daughters needs. It’s a process and it doesn’t matter that some stranger may or may not be offended.
Anonymous
11/05/2022 05:23
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Kids with autism like rules and structure so create rules about social engagement and then role play and practice them. Practice on your own time with you doing something she will see as breaking a rule and see how she responds and then see if she followed the rules of social engagement. Use rule following to your benefit as a way to teach about social interaction!
Anonymous
11/05/2022 04:55
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.
FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.
The world wasn't "built for her"? You mean the world should be a place where when people are in public they can get interrupted and corrected by a rude child, or their 2 year old can get screamed at for saying the words "baby pigs"? That kind of world?
I think that attitude is incredibly selfish and inconsiderate of everyone else's lives. It is not appropriate for ANYONE to do some of those things, for good reason. And not teaching ANY child that there is proper behavior and improper behavior in the world does our whole society a disservice, your child included, and regardless of their "need" to correct someone, and regardless of how what they may have the desire to say and do. There have to be basic societal rules, regardless of what someone else feels.
+1 My friend’s child has ASD and when he says things that are slightly rude, she gently reminds him that it is impolite to say xyz, how about rephrasing it like this? And we move on. OP is doing a disservice to their child in blaming others for calling that rude which is rude.
Anonymous
11/04/2022 23:26
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Special Ed teacher here. It would be great if the world just embraced and accepted neurodiverse kids in every way. The reality is that these kids must learn boundaries and social norms. You owe nothing to the people she is talking to. They will be fine. But for her benefit you need to make it a thing. “Larla, I noticed that you walked up to these people and told them X. I saw their faces and It seems like they were just talking to each other and didn’t want to talk to anyone else right now.” There is no harm in turning to an adult and indicating your intentions with your voice and gestures. Most will get it. The others aren’t your problem. Keep the focus on teaching your child how to interact appropriately
Anonymous
11/04/2022 23:09
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.
FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.
The world wasn't "built for her"? You mean the world should be a place where when people are in public they can get interrupted and corrected by a rude child, or their 2 year old can get screamed at for saying the words "baby pigs"? That kind of world?
I think that attitude is incredibly selfish and inconsiderate of everyone else's lives. It is not appropriate for ANYONE to do some of those things, for good reason. And not teaching ANY child that there is proper behavior and improper behavior in the world does our whole society a disservice, your child included, and regardless of their "need" to correct someone, and regardless of how what they may have the desire to say and do. There have to be basic societal rules, regardless of what someone else feels.
Anonymous
11/04/2022 22:23
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.
FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.
Who, of course, might well be just like your child and have some social challenges, inherent rigidity, and honestly trying their best in a world not built for them. If they are worthy of critique, then your child will be, as well, when she is an adult.
Or how do you want people to respond to your child when she is a know-it-all adult? Should we maybe be granting everyone grace here, and not just one person?
This is a bit of a tangent but still an important point. As my ASD child gets older, others--including other parents in the special needs community--seem to become less understanding. We were recently at an event with other ASD kids and another parent spoke very harshly to DS for not patiently listening to their (much younger) ASD child, clearly forgetting that even older teens and adults have challenges. Let's remember to give "grace" to all who need it.
Anonymous
11/04/2022 22:04
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.
NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.
Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.
Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.
Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.
Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.
Where is YOUR class?? I would take that!
Anonymous
11/04/2022 15:32
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Clearly some posters don't realize this is in the Special Needs & Disabilities forum and found the thread through Recent Topics. Parenting classes...ha. Hahahahahahahaha. Ha.
NP
Therapists all recommend parenting classes for ASD children.
Guess what the number 1 reason the classes don’t work? One of the parents has ASD too, and cannot and will not apply the new parenting skills taught.
Clearly you have no idea how this works do you? I have autism, work with kids with autism, and have taught parenting classes to parents with autism raising kids with autism. It works if it’s done right.
Stop treating people with autism like they can’t learn or that they are less than capable because of some ridiculous label. You are not doing them any favors but never teaching them how to interact within society in a neurotypical way.
Yes, it’s hard. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes, it’s a ton of work. Yes, it’s worth it.
Anonymous
11/04/2022 15:21
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.
FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.
Who, of course, might well be just like your child and have some social challenges, inherent rigidity, and honestly trying their best in a world not built for them. If they are worthy of critique, then your child will be, as well, when she is an adult.
Or how do you want people to respond to your child when she is a know-it-all adult? Should we maybe be granting everyone grace here, and not just one person?
ffs. this isn’t about granting grace. it is about our basic responsibility to teach our kids how to be safe and independent. going up to strangers and making unexpected or inappropriate or challenging comments is a behavior that is not OK. at 6 most people probably interpret it as harmless. but at 10 (which will come sooner than you think) it will be more dysfunctional and potentially dangerous. there are ways you can teach a child to stop behaviors- please read up on it.
Ignoring the behavior at that age is going to do far more long term harm to your child than help. Ignoring or justifying it is a simple solution for the parent but part of parenting is working with your child, despite their challenges on how to interact with others and how to survive living in the world we live in as others may not understand them or care. Most of use here have kids with challenges or special needs and we do get it but we found to address all behaviors early on helped even though it was the not so fun part of parenting as they will only learn if you teach them. Its not ok for a child to say mean things to anyone else and they are going to struggle with friendships and other relationships if the behavior continues. Its ok to correct an adult with a mistake (like the math example) but its not ok to listen to conversations and make mean comments even if your child is correct in their thinking. Some things don't need to be shared.
Anonymous
11/04/2022 15:19
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
I’ve been that stranger and nearly always am I not offended. Not necessary but I do appreciate acknowledgment by the parent - maybe a quick smile or a mouthed “sorry”.
Anonymous
11/04/2022 13:38
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is OP. In the future I will start all posts in the special needs forum with “this is a post in the special needs forum about a child with special needs.” Or maybe that won’t matter.
FWIW the people who get super offended when she corrects them in public are the know-it-alls who are wrong about something. . .whiiiiiich kind of reminds me of some of the folks responding to my question here. This whole DCUM experience is making me care a whole lot less about whether these strangers are offended by my child, who is honestly trying her best in a world not built for her. So this thread has been helpful. Thanks, all.
Truth.
Had a similar experience here recently with DCUM/Mommy Fight Site. Hang in there.
I have an ADHD kid and I will never forget when their K teacher wrote to share that they were proud of them that day b/c when they pointed out that she had a math problem on the board that was wrong, they was very polite and told her privately, instead of in front of the whole class. This was before we event thought to consider they had ADHD too (although more and more the HD stood out)! They have come along way and is still a blurter but learning! Not appropriate at age 6 but we've been watching Big Bang Theory (they are a teen now) and that's been a great way to talk about how different people are but that they can still have friends and lead great lives. They just have to learn a bit to modulate and also to find their people!
Anonymous
11/04/2022 09:55
Subject: Explaining ASD child’s rude comments to strangers
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:so what if strangers think your kid is being rude? Maybe it's embarrassing for you but it doesn't matter in the long run.
It does matter to OP's kid because she doesn't understand boundaries and differences in positions of authority and that is a problem for her now and it's only going to get worse as she gets older. OP's kid needs to understand that she is not in the same position as an adult at a museum. There is also going to spillover. If she is doing this at a museum, she is doing this with her friends and teachers and she will do it with service providers and then professors, colleagues, and her managers.
NT kids pick up on social cues about boundaries and authority figures better than ASD or ADHD kids but still need boundaries reinforced, including that you do not speak to an adult who is not your parent like your parent. It does not matter how smart OP's daughter is, she will have a very difficult time in the working world if she thinks that she knows better than everyone else and her actions reflect that. Even if it's clear she has ASD and people are understanding of her quirks, she will irritate her colleagues if she doesn't understand boundaries. I've seen it happen and I really wish the person who I saw it happen with had more help and coaching prior to getting into the working world because for HR reasons, it's very tricky for a manager or colleague to sit an employee down and explain that their actions are unwelcome when those actions are tied to a disability. OP needs to coach her daughter when it's appropriate and important to advocate for herself or someone else and what it is important and appropriate to stand back and let something go.
This is a new poster and I do agree with this. However, I don't think those PP's who are saying "teach her differently" have kids that do this, as it is MUCH harder than that.
My kid is 14 and this is an issue. She "does not understand boundaries and the differences in positions of authority" is a perfect way to describe this. I don't recall her doing this at 6, other than being a little rude to grandma (boy, did we get hell for that). She didn't correct people in museums or walk up to random strangers and be "rude." But boy has it gotten worse, and it is not easy to teach or coach an Autistic brain on this subject, it just isn't. Our kid has been in therapy galore, social skills groups, OT, everything you can think of. She doesn't say please and thank you even though we remind her constantly (she does sometimes, but "forgets" other times). Her emails and interactions with teachers are astoundingly rude sounding. Our other child charms the pants off of teachers and adults most of the time (not to compare, they are two very different kids), just to point out that I don't think it is primarily our parenting.
If anyone has suggestions about how to improve this, I'm all ears - we have tried and coach every single situation we learn about. But not only does it change, we get lectured by our DD. "Why do adults deserve more respect just because they are older" (when that is not what we said), "why should I not call someone out for being [homophobic, racist, sexist, ableist] etc." (even when we explain that it is not what you say, it is how you say it). I becomes an absolutely exhausting intellectual debate and I always lose. She just doesn't get how this does and is going to continue to affect her relationships and how others view her. I am certainly afraid of how she will get along as she gets older, in school, in college, in the working world. Particularly with people she doesn't like or who are inconsequential to HER, doesn't matter if they have a lot of power over her.
Just saying, OP, it's not becuase you're not trying or modeling or coaching or whatever. It's just hard.
NP. We have a kid like this too - doesn't' understand and rebels against hierarchy, doesn't see hierarchy or authority and will actively level against people she doesn't like, as well as against people she does like (including us her parents). I have family members who are like this too and employment (as well as school) has been a problem for them.
This is a core part of her, and them. I can teach and model but I can't change her. This is who she is.
That’s right. And the more you try to pound a core part of their wiring out of them, the more likely they are to feel like you’ve traumatized them and just taught them to mask for their entire childhood.
It IS traumatising to them, you ARE teaching them how to mask and then expecting them to do so indefinitely.
I feel like "masking" is not the relevant frame here. Masking is about suppressing stims and tics, forcing uncomfortable eye contact, and just generally pushing your ASD kid into a NT box by making them uncomfortable.
But asking an ASD kid to exercise basic care with the emotions of other human beings is not oppressive. Other human beings also have feelings, and will absolutely protect themselves from those who seek to hurt them. In this case, that protection would take the form of social isolation, which none of us want for our children.