Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long will Columbia be ranked around the #18 range? Is that ranking here to stay, or is it just a one year fluke as "punishment" for the data falsification scandal?

I'd expect them to be back in the 7-18 range over the next 5 years but gone are the top 5 days. Honestly, did anyone really believe they were a top 5 undergrad school though?

+1

Every Columbia undergrad alum I know hated their time there. The lack of focus on undergrads, poor funding, poor sense of community, and cutthroat and competitive vibe make Columbia a second-tier experience compared to HYPSM or even Penn/Dartmouth/Brown.

Exhibit A:

https://www.reddit.com/r/columbia/comments/x9jnjy/where_can_i_find_some_people_who_arent_obsessed/

+2. No one ever bought that Columbia was top 5.

+3

Columbia undergrad alum here and I'd never send my kids there. Most of the people I know from undergrad say the same. IIRC Columbia has the lowest percent of the student body who are legacies because most alumni are smart enough not to have their kid repeat the same mistake they made.

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Anonymous wrote:Wow. Hopkins is WAY overrated. I would put it below Duke & Northwestern (not to mention Dartmouth et al).

Hopkins has a premier med school and hospital system (that only Harvard and Stanford really rival). Honestly, nothing stands out about Duke and Northwestern other than maybe that cereal company's biz school at NW.

sure bud.

In all honesty, what really impresses you about Duke and Northwestern? They are both very good schools but Northwestern is basically the second best school for every discipline in the Chicago area. Duke prides itself on being the Harvard of the South and does have great basketball; however, I can't think of even a single truly elite discipline or grad school there. I've considered Duke the Northwestern of the South TBH, which isn't a bad thing (high-end private Power 5 schools). Both of them are great for the 7-15 range but shouldn't be feeling wronged anywhere in that range.

So your point is they are great, but not impressive? And what does geography have do with anything?

They are excellent but not in that truly top group of national universities that the Duke alumni crowd in particular believes they are. Geographically, the Chicago reference with NW was to explain that even the students wanting top programs in that city now tend to choose Chicago (which probably wasn't the case 30 years ago). Duke sells their southern location and weather compared to other schools (Vandy does too). Both NW and Duke offer a lot but to confuse them with Harvard or Yale is a mistake.

Exactly. Duke, hopkins, northwestern and the like are great but none of them should be ahead of any Ivy period. Or cal tech.

Most students would take HYP over the schools above. The second tier Ivies like Columbia and Cornell are a different story.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Hopkins is WAY overrated. I would put it below Duke & Northwestern (not to mention Dartmouth et al).

Hopkins has a premier med school and hospital system (that only Harvard and Stanford really rival). Honestly, nothing stands out about Duke and Northwestern other than maybe that cereal company's biz school at NW.

sure bud.

In all honesty, what really impresses you about Duke and Northwestern? They are both very good schools but Northwestern is basically the second best school for every discipline in the Chicago area. Duke prides itself on being the Harvard of the South and does have great basketball; however, I can't think of even a single truly elite discipline or grad school there. I've considered Duke the Northwestern of the South TBH, which isn't a bad thing (high-end private Power 5 schools). Both of them are great for the 7-15 range but shouldn't be feeling wronged anywhere in that range.

So your point is they are great, but not impressive? And what does geography have do with anything?

They are excellent but not in that truly top group of national universities that the Duke alumni crowd in particular believes they are. Geographically, the Chicago reference with NW was to explain that even the students wanting top programs in that city now tend to choose Chicago (which probably wasn't the case 30 years ago). Duke sells their southern location and weather compared to other schools (Vandy does too). Both NW and Duke offer a lot but to confuse them with Harvard or Yale is a mistake.

Exactly. Duke, hopkins, northwestern and the like are great but none of them should be ahead of any Ivy period. Or cal tech.

Cal Tech is an amazing school that seems to fly under the radar in the DMV (not too many grads out here). I'd prefer it over MIT for undergrad.

Duke, JHU, and NW are all very good too (right there with most of the Ivy League).

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Notre Dame at 18, tied with Columbia and only one behind Cornell.

Notre Dame is Ivy level.

Almost, but not quite!

Notre Dame would never want to join the Ivy League anyway! It is happy to be ranked right there and fully independent to print football $$!

The Ivy League isn't all it is cracked up to be. Georgetown wouldn't even give up its basketball TV $$ to join.

Remember that the ancient 8 really is just an old but now low-level athletic conference!

um, yeah sure..

No chance ND or Georgetown would accept an invitation to join the Ivy League if they were asked now. Way too much money and visibility in big-time college football and basketball.

Where's the invitation?

Invitation wise, schools interested in joining a conference softly reach out to member institutions and conference administrators (for recent examples of how it works in practice, look into the USC and UCLA moves to the Big 10 and Texas and Oklahoma moves to the SEC). Actual invitations from a conference are the very last step once a deal is essentially done. ND and Georgetown wouldn't consider those informal communications because of the value they place on football (ND) and basketball (both).

I think you've misunderstood the larger point that the "Ivy League" is about sports and could change (like when they almost added Army and Navy for football reasons in the 80s). For some reason, people think they are just the best schools period without understanding what ties them together. Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, and Vanderbilt are other examples of private schools that value top academic reputations but wouldn't consider Ivy League affiliation. "Poor" Stanford was practically begging to join Maryland in the Big 10 this year to no avail.

The Insecure Ivies Defense Squad has entered the chat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Notre Dame at 18, tied with Columbia and only one behind Cornell.

Notre Dame is Ivy level.

Almost, but not quite!

Notre Dame would never want to join the Ivy League anyway! It is happy to be ranked right there and fully independent to print football $$!

The Ivy League isn't all it is cracked up to be. Georgetown wouldn't even give up its basketball TV $$ to join.

Remember that the ancient 8 really is just an old but now low-level athletic conference!

um, yeah sure..

No chance ND or Georgetown would accept an invitation to join the Ivy League if they were asked now. Way too much money and visibility in big-time college football and basketball.

Where's the invitation?

in someone’s mind

JMU is on the national universities list now (#151)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Hopkins is WAY overrated. I would put it below Duke & Northwestern (not to mention Dartmouth et al).

Hopkins has a premier med school and hospital system (that only Harvard and Stanford really rival). Honestly, nothing stands out about Duke and Northwestern other than maybe that cereal company's biz school at NW.

sure bud.

In all honesty, what really impresses you about Duke and Northwestern? They are both very good schools but Northwestern is basically the second best school for every discipline in the Chicago area. Duke prides itself on being the Harvard of the South and does have great basketball; however, I can't think of even a single truly elite discipline or grad school there. I've considered Duke the Northwestern of the South TBH, which isn't a bad thing (high-end private Power 5 schools). Both of them are great for the 7-15 range but shouldn't be feeling wronged anywhere in that range.

So your point is they are great, but not impressive? And what does geography have do with anything?

They are excellent but not in that truly top group of national universities that the Duke alumni crowd in particular believes they are. Geographically, the Chicago reference with NW was to explain that even the students wanting top programs in that city now tend to choose Chicago (which probably wasn't the case 30 years ago). Duke sells their southern location and weather compared to other schools (Vandy does too). Both NW and Duke offer a lot but to confuse them with Harvard or Yale is a mistake.

Exactly. Duke, hopkins, northwestern and the like are great but none of them should be ahead of any Ivy period. Or cal tech.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Hopkins is WAY overrated. I would put it below Duke & Northwestern (not to mention Dartmouth et al).

Hopkins has a premier med school and hospital system (that only Harvard and Stanford really rival). Honestly, nothing stands out about Duke and Northwestern other than maybe that cereal company's biz school at NW.

sure bud.

In all honesty, what really impresses you about Duke and Northwestern? They are both very good schools but Northwestern is basically the second best school for every discipline in the Chicago area. Duke prides itself on being the Harvard of the South and does have great basketball; however, I can't think of even a single truly elite discipline or grad school there. I've considered Duke the Northwestern of the South TBH, which isn't a bad thing (high-end private Power 5 schools). Both of them are great for the 7-15 range but shouldn't be feeling wronged anywhere in that range.

So your point is they are great, but not impressive? And what does geography have do with anything?

They are excellent but not in that truly top group of national universities that the Duke alumni crowd in particular believes they are. Geographically, the Chicago reference with NW was to explain that even the students wanting top programs in that city now tend to choose Chicago (which probably wasn't the case 30 years ago). Duke sells their southern location and weather compared to other schools (Vandy does too). Both NW and Duke offer a lot but to confuse them with Harvard or Yale is a mistake.

Choosing between Chicago and NW is not common considering that they're about as polar opposites as two schools of this level can be. And I'm sorry, but what's with the straw man argument of claiming that people are confusing Duke/NW with Harvard or Yale (no one is actually doing that, so this is a made-up problem)?

In any case, they're both stronger schools across the board than Hopkins, which is essentially a medical system that happens to have a university attached to it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Hopkins is WAY overrated. I would put it below Duke & Northwestern (not to mention Dartmouth et al).

Hopkins has a premier med school and hospital system (that only Harvard and Stanford really rival). Honestly, nothing stands out about Duke and Northwestern other than maybe that cereal company's biz school at NW.

sure bud.

In all honesty, what really impresses you about Duke and Northwestern? They are both very good schools but Northwestern is basically the second best school for every discipline in the Chicago area. Duke prides itself on being the Harvard of the South and does have great basketball; however, I can't think of even a single truly elite discipline or grad school there. I've considered Duke the Northwestern of the South TBH, which isn't a bad thing (high-end private Power 5 schools). Both of them are great for the 7-15 range but shouldn't be feeling wronged anywhere in that range.

So your point is they are great, but not impressive? And what does geography have do with anything?

They are excellent but not in that truly top group of national universities that the Duke alumni crowd in particular believes they are. Geographically, the Chicago reference with NW was to explain that even the students wanting top programs in that city now tend to choose Chicago (which probably wasn't the case 30 years ago). Duke sells their southern location and weather compared to other schools (Vandy does too). Both NW and Duke offer a lot but to confuse them with Harvard or Yale is a mistake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JMU debuts as a national university at 151. Go Dukes!

Below GMU and well below other school’s first ranking when making the same transition.

I’ve always thought JMU is better than GMU. Maybe I’m too old!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Hopkins is WAY overrated. I would put it below Duke & Northwestern (not to mention Dartmouth et al).

Hopkins has a premier med school and hospital system (that only Harvard and Stanford really rival). Honestly, nothing stands out about Duke and Northwestern other than maybe that cereal company's biz school at NW.

sure bud.

In all honesty, what really impresses you about Duke and Northwestern? They are both very good schools but Northwestern is basically the second best school for every discipline in the Chicago area. Duke prides itself on being the Harvard of the South and does have great basketball; however, I can't think of even a single truly elite discipline or grad school there. I've considered Duke the Northwestern of the South TBH, which isn't a bad thing (high-end private Power 5 schools). Both of them are great for the 7-15 range but shouldn't be feeling wronged anywhere in that range.

TBH I would say Duke and Northwestern are superior to JHU for pretty much everything except med-related disciplines

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Notre Dame at 18, tied with Columbia and only one behind Cornell.

Notre Dame is Ivy level.

Almost, but not quite!

Notre Dame would never want to join the Ivy League anyway! It is happy to be ranked right there and fully independent to print football $$!

The Ivy League isn't all it is cracked up to be. Georgetown wouldn't even give up its basketball TV $$ to join.

Remember that the ancient 8 really is just an old but now low-level athletic conference!

um, yeah sure..

No chance ND or Georgetown would accept an invitation to join the Ivy League if they were asked now. Way too much money and visibility in big-time college football and basketball.

Where's the invitation?

If the Ivy League could share ND's TV revenue, it would have been sent yesterday !

It isn't like they haven't seriously considered expansion for football reasons before: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/10/sports/ivy-league-considers-adding-2-schools.html

Playing FCS football like the Ivy League and Georgetown continue to do seems silly. The Big 10 might be willing to consider Harvard if they agree to significantly upgrade their facilities!

Doesn't answer the question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Notre Dame at 18, tied with Columbia and only one behind Cornell.

Notre Dame is Ivy level.

Almost, but not quite!

Notre Dame would never want to join the Ivy League anyway! It is happy to be ranked right there and fully independent to print football $$!

The Ivy League isn't all it is cracked up to be. Georgetown wouldn't even give up its basketball TV $$ to join.

Remember that the ancient 8 really is just an old but now low-level athletic conference!

um, yeah sure..

No chance ND or Georgetown would accept an invitation to join the Ivy League if they were asked now. Way too much money and visibility in big-time college football and basketball.

Where's the invitation?

If the Ivy League could share ND's TV revenue, it would have been sent yesterday !

It isn't like they haven't seriously considered expansion for football reasons before: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/10/sports/ivy-league-considers-adding-2-schools.html

Playing FCS football like the Ivy League and Georgetown continue to do seems silly. The Big 10 might be willing to consider Harvard if they agree to significantly upgrade their facilities!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Hopkins is WAY overrated. I would put it below Duke & Northwestern (not to mention Dartmouth et al).

Hopkins has a premier med school and hospital system (that only Harvard and Stanford really rival). Honestly, nothing stands out about Duke and Northwestern other than maybe that cereal company's biz school at NW.

sure bud.

In all honesty, what really impresses you about Duke and Northwestern? They are both very good schools but Northwestern is basically the second best school for every discipline in the Chicago area. Duke prides itself on being the Harvard of the South and does have great basketball; however, I can't think of even a single truly elite discipline or grad school there. I've considered Duke the Northwestern of the South TBH, which isn't a bad thing (high-end private Power 5 schools). Both of them are great for the 7-15 range but shouldn't be feeling wronged anywhere in that range.

So your point is they are great, but not impressive? And what does geography have do with anything?