Anonymous wrote:This thread has me looking forward to Thanksgiving.

Me too!

Also, it feels like the world is healing: a holiday conundrum thread, complete with fantastically opinionated responses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you could serve them something like this? https://fieldroast.com/product/celebration-roast/

I’ve heard good reviews from vegan friends.

OP, this is a good suggestion, but only if you know they eat and enjoy plant-based alternatives like that. My SIL bemoans that vegan burgers and the like are processed and that they are served to vegans all the time at social events. (Which…I have my opinions on that level of entitlement, I’m just saying.)

What do you mean by 'level of entitlement'? Junk food is junk food. Those vegan meats are junk. How is not wanting to eat junk 'entitled'?

they’re not junk. And tbh I would rather eat junk than support factory farming. I don’t think this makes me “ difficult” you need to be more aware of where your food comes from.

I source all my meats and dairy from local grass fed, free range farms. That beats processed soy and hydrogenated oils any day.

BS. And grass fed means nothing. Unless you literally never eat out anywhere you are still supporting the cruelty involved for your “ meat”

At least PP won’t be raising soy boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, if two people who don't eat meat accept an invitation to a meat-eating holiday!, it's on them to ask/tell you what they are going to be eating.

They *should* be making this very, very easy on you. If they aren't doing this, certainly don't be shy re: asking exactly what you can serve them.

Oh yeah, I can just imagine the thread from the person hosting Thanksgiving who is shocked and appalled that their vegan guests told them what to make, without having been asked.

Do you have no social skills?

“Hi Rachel, thank you so much for hosting Bill and I for Thanksgiving. I wish we lived closer so we could bring something homemade, but would you like us to hit the grocery store the morning of and bring anything?” This opens the door for menu discussion, and makes it clear they are willing to contribute in some way.

Italian fam here. Our thanksgivings include traditional to an extent, but we lean into Italian multi courses. Here’s what I’ve done for vegan friends in the past. Don’t panic, it’s easy. Just offering step by step.

Starter: A vegan version of traditional antipasto— organic artichoke hearts (not marinated), a variety of olives, (roasting peppers imported jar), drizzle all with evoo and sea salt. On a long serving tray I arrange this, bakery Italian semolina, condiment bowls with nuts of choice mixed with organic cranberries, hummus burrowed in middle for evoo, sea salt, cracked pepper served with mini naan (warmed)

Main: in this case, buy imported bagged pasta (not fresh) tagliatelle or my fav tripoline nests. The goal is to keep the nest shape which is easier with dry pasta. Here’s a delicate vegan topper.

Rinse and halve organic cherry tomatoes, salt them.
Heat evoo in a skillet pan, add fresh chopped garlic (not jarred). Add dry basil or fresh if you prefer. On low-medium heat, let them wither in the oil until skins become soft. Taste test.
Transfer to a baking dish and let sit at room temp
Top the tomato mixture with fresh breadcrumbs. Grab a bag from your local market that has some chunks.
I don’t know the taste or texture of vegan butter, but if others say it will add flavor then put a few pats on top of breadcrumbs.
Bake in toaster oven until crumbs are slightly brown and crunchy.
Time this in tandem with bringing salted water to a boil.
Using a strainer spoon, gently lower the nests in water. Do not stir! They’ll keep their shape.
Cooks fast so be sure to test. I pull one strand out with small tongs. You definitely want al dente.
Scoop out each nest with strainer spoon giving it a gentle shake.
Plate and use a slight hand to top with tomato mixture until it looks pretty.

For the vegan version w/o hot Italian sausage. I roast/bake an extra tray of sweet potatoes (not yams) in a pan with onions, a few cloves of garlic, olive oil salt and pepper. Throw it all in an aluminum pan and mix to coat. Bake at 375. Do the fork test for readiness. Scoop with straining spoon, shake, and add to side of nest. Avoid the oil so potatoes stand alone without a sloppy oily mess the way my family likes them.

Dessert: In pretty bowls dessert bowls— HAAGEN-DAZS Non-Dairy Chocolate Salted Fudge Truffle Frozen Dessert, chilled berries. Traditionally, we always fill a huge wooden bowl with skin on seedless clementines, walnuts in shell, and figs. Don’t forget the nutcracker. Another southern Italian tradition is dark chocolate dipped clementines. These are presliced from Calabria where they’re soaked for months. Big hit, so I add them to xmas stockings. https://www.zingermans.com/Product/clementines-in-chocolate/P-CIC

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would not do anything special for them. They have made a lifestyle choice. If they had allergies, it would be different. Let them eat the salad and be happy.

That would be terribly rude.

Seriously. It's like half these posters think that if someone decides to be vegetarian, no one is obligates to respect that on any level. The OP's cousin wasn't demanding a vegan Thanksgiving. OP was proactively looking for ways to include the vegan guests, without crossing lines that she thought would be problematic for others at the meal. If a vegan person is attending a dinner you are hosting, you are obligated to provide food they can eat. It doesn't matter from the host perspective if it's a food allergy or a dietary preference. Would you be making such a big stink about someone keeping kosher, another dietary preference that could inconvenience people? The polite way to handle, as a host, is to meet your guests' needs, not argue with them about whether they should want what they want or tell them "Let them eat salad" without irony.

OP here. I don’t think I should have to clarify, but just in case I do: I will absolutely make or buy vegan dishes to be sure that everyone has a full plate, and I will not make anyone just eat salad.

That said, the idea of essentially doing what one person said and make sure there are an equal number of vegan and non-vegan foods isn’t happening. I simply don’t have the budget or the bandwidth. I’m going to look into the possibility of Whole Foods, and I’m going to discuss the tofurkey looking item that was suggested with my cousin. I’ll likely strike some happy medium between making some items vegan, making a portion of some items vegan (like pulling out a few mashed potatoes before adding cream/butter to the rest), and purchasing some vegan items. I won’t be hollowing out a pumpkin.

Vegetarian here - and that sounds perfect. It will be a lovely meal.

Another vegetarian, and I personally would just buy a few key vegan items from Whole Foods knowing that some of what you’re serving already (like cranberry sauce and a veggie roasted in olive oil) will be safe for vegans. They will keep fine if you pick them up a couple of days prior. Hosting Thanksgiving is a ton of work, and I wouldn’t want to spend additional time making two versions of dishes. (Just like when I host meat-eaters, I keep things easier for myself by buying pre-made turkey/gravy from Whole Foods for them.)

Anonymous wrote:Op, if two people who don't eat meat accept an invitation to a meat-eating holiday!, it's on them to ask/tell you what they are going to be eating.

They *should* be making this very, very easy on you. If they aren't doing this, certainly don't be shy re: asking exactly what you can serve them.

Oh yeah, I can just imagine the thread from the person hosting Thanksgiving who is shocked and appalled that their vegan guests told them what to make, without having been asked.

OP, I have not read the whole thread but your menu sounds terrific. For the veg I usually do green beans with almonds or Brussels sprouts. I use vegan butter for a lot of the sautéing and my picky kids prefer it to regular butter! I wouldn’t overextend yourself with a big crowd - you should get to enjoy the holiday! I wouldn’t eat that meat substitute loaf thing because I don’t eat mock meat, but all the veggies and cranberry sauce sound amazing!! I don’t tend to read threads on here about veganism because DCUM can be so hostile. Most people IRL have no idea what my dietary preferences are.

Op, if two people who don't eat meat accept an invitation to a meat-eating holiday!, it's on them to ask/tell you what they are going to be eating.

They *should* be making this very, very easy on you. If they aren't doing this, certainly don't be shy re: asking exactly what you can serve them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

This thread has me looking forward to Thanksgiving.

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d skip the vegan mashed potatoes, just doesn’t sound good. Also can you do two batches of stuffing, one vegan and one not? I typically make two batches, one super traditional and one more “interesting” one.

Vegan mashed potatoes can be very good.

Because of kashrut, with observant family members we do mashed potatoes with olive oil and caramelized onions - very tasty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you could serve them something like this? https://fieldroast.com/product/celebration-roast/

I’ve heard good reviews from vegan friends.

OP, this is a good suggestion, but only if you know they eat and enjoy plant-based alternatives like that. My SIL bemoans that vegan burgers and the like are processed and that they are served to vegans all the time at social events. (Which…I have my opinions on that level of entitlement, I’m just saying.)

What do you mean by 'level of entitlement'? Junk food is junk food. Those vegan meats are junk. How is not wanting to eat junk 'entitled'?

they’re not junk. And tbh I would rather eat junk than support factory farming. I don’t think this makes me “ difficult” you need to be more aware of where your food comes from.

I don't want to support factory farms and I don't want to eat junk either. How is that entitled? Yes, "processed protein" "Isolated protein" etc etc is junk. Also loaded with sodium and yeast extract and MSG. Just because it's vegan doesn't mean it's healthy. It's processed crap.

Someone is trying to graciously accommodate you. If you can’t graciously eat what is served, decline invitations or bring your own food. When I go to a dinner party, I do not turn up my nose at what is served, nor do I complain that I have been served that food before and suggest alternatives for next time—this is literally what my SIL does. “Pasta again? Next time, you should try serving—“ That is entitled beyond. If you can’t graciously eat a few bites of a vegan burger that was provided for you out of consideration by your hosts, stay home. Not saying you have to gorge on tofurkey, but recognize the gesture and eat a few bites and fill up on sides. My goodness. SO entitled.

Uh, I am not even vegan. I am simply saying that someone who IS vegan has a right to "bemoan" that they are constantly getting served processed junk. That is not entitled. I'm sure that PP's SIL has eaten way more than her fair share of vegan burgers at this point.

If you were a gracious host, you would want to know that the special accommodations you're making for your vegan guests are processed junk. Instead you would rather they "graciously eat a few bites" and then wipe their lips and say, "Mmm, delicious!" I'm sure your guests eat a full meal before they come over anyway.

Anyone who bemoans anything I serve is not getting invited back. How rude.

No problem. It's being done behind your back.

In that case I don’t really give two shits. Accept my invitation or don’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would not do anything special for them. They have made a lifestyle choice. If they had allergies, it would be different. Let them eat the salad and be happy.

That would be terribly rude.

Seriously. It's like half these posters think that if someone decides to be vegetarian, no one is obligates to respect that on any level. The OP's cousin wasn't demanding a vegan Thanksgiving. OP was proactively looking for ways to include the vegan guests, without crossing lines that she thought would be problematic for others at the meal. If a vegan person is attending a dinner you are hosting, you are obligated to provide food they can eat. It doesn't matter from the host perspective if it's a food allergy or a dietary preference. Would you be making such a big stink about someone keeping kosher, another dietary preference that could inconvenience people? The polite way to handle, as a host, is to meet your guests' needs, not argue with them about whether they should want what they want or tell them "Let them eat salad" without irony.

OP here. I don’t think I should have to clarify, but just in case I do: I will absolutely make or buy vegan dishes to be sure that everyone has a full plate, and I will not make anyone just eat salad.

That said, the idea of essentially doing what one person said and make sure there are an equal number of vegan and non-vegan foods isn’t happening. I simply don’t have the budget or the bandwidth. I’m going to look into the possibility of Whole Foods, and I’m going to discuss the tofurkey looking item that was suggested with my cousin. I’ll likely strike some happy medium between making some items vegan, making a portion of some items vegan (like pulling out a few mashed potatoes before adding cream/butter to the rest), and purchasing some vegan items. I won’t be hollowing out a pumpkin.

Vegetarian here - and that sounds perfect. It will be a lovely meal.