It sounds like you may be in an affluent high school or in a private school OP. It's been like this since at least the 1980s, when I went to private school.

Larger, less affluent schools have a more diverse social scene.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

My experience with watching my daughter and friends is that they are open to dating the "less cool" (yes, that sounds ridiculous but you know what i mean) boys but those boys are only interested in the "popular" girls as well. I count my son and his friends in this group.
The current dating norm is not kind to girls, especially those who are not "putting it all out there on social media". Boys seem to expect the bikini-clad hot girl who sells this image on social media and otherwise are content to lead girls on or ignore them.


I'm sure this is not the case across all high schools in all areas but there does seem to be the norm in much of NW DC. It kind of sucks to be a girl. Again, I see both sides of this and love my children equally---so I am not here to say "girls are wonderful and guys are pigs" but I do see boys having the upper hand in the teen dating world (or lack of dating world) at this point in time.

It seems like if the popular girls aren’t paying any attention to the “less cool” guys, then those same guys would go for the other girls that they at least have a chance with. But maybe they don’t realize that those girls would be interested in them.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

My experience with watching my daughter and friends is that they are open to dating the "less cool" (yes, that sounds ridiculous but you know what i mean) boys but those boys are only interested in the "popular" girls as well. I count my son and his friends in this group.
The current dating norm is not kind to girls, especially those who are not "putting it all out there on social media". Boys seem to expect the bikini-clad hot girl who sells this image on social media and otherwise are content to lead girls on or ignore them.


I'm sure this is not the case across all high schools in all areas but there does seem to be the norm in much of NW DC. It kind of sucks to be a girl. Again, I see both sides of this and love my children equally---so I am not here to say "girls are wonderful and guys are pigs" but I do see boys having the upper hand in the teen dating world (or lack of dating world) at this point in time.

Lol, no.

Anonymous wrote:This thread and many of the replies are gross. As several PPs have noted, it sounds like OP's DD and her friends are likely doing exactly what OP is accusing jerky teen boys of doing. I'm sure there are a lot of average teen boys that would be happy to date the less popular girls.

Also, the implication that that the well-developed, pretty girls must be awful and have nothing between their ears is sexist and gross (and sounds more like jealousy than anything else). My DD is cute and posts bikini pictures on IG. She's also kind, funny and incredibly smart. She is now a first year at a highly ranked college in STEM.

Agree, this thread reeks of envy.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

My experience with watching my daughter and friends is that they are open to dating the "less cool" (yes, that sounds ridiculous but you know what i mean) boys but those boys are only interested in the "popular" girls as well. I count my son and his friends in this group.
The current dating norm is not kind to girls, especially those who are not "putting it all out there on social media". Boys seem to expect the bikini-clad hot girl who sells this image on social media and otherwise are content to lead girls on or ignore them.


I'm sure this is not the case across all high schools in all areas but there does seem to be the norm in much of NW DC. It kind of sucks to be a girl. Again, I see both sides of this and love my children equally---so I am not here to say "girls are wonderful and guys are pigs" but I do see boys having the upper hand in the teen dating world (or lack of dating world) at this point in time.

The “less popular” boys get flamed when trying to talk to girls so
Girls should say hi so boy know they are among friendly girls.

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a small school issue. My kids public high school is so large there is no one group of 10-20 popular girls or boys. There is definitely a lot of dating of very normal kids. Theater kids who date theater kids, etc.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 16-17 year old g/b twins in NW DC/close-in Bethesda.
My kids have friends across public/private/Catholic.

My daughter has a tight group of friends (6) and none of them have ever dated. They find that the boys are only interested in a select type of girls.
My daughter and her friends are pretty, sporty, stylish, slim, smart. What they aren't are popular and they're not the types to post bikini shots on Instagram.

They receive next to no interest from boys. For some time this seemed awesome (who needs boys?) but now I find myself feeling a bit sad for them. It feels
(maybe I'm wrong) that girls have to really sell themselves these days to get the attention of ANY boys. All the boys are clamoring over the same circle of girls
(the popular 10 or so from each high school and they all know each other from Instagram) and the rest receive no attention. This transcends schools (these are boys from Catholic/public/private). My son and his friends are guilty of it as well which makes it worse. They turn up their noses (and basically lead on and then make fun of) other girls.
It's horrible and I've had long talks to him about it. Many long talks.

Anyone else notice this dynamic? It doesn't feel like it was this way when I was growing up. Boys were less picky and less a$$holish about girls.

Not all boys are a$sholes. I have 2 girls-a college sophomore and HS senior and a 13 year old boy. The college kid was the athletic, wear pjs to class, hair in a messy bun kid. She still dated in HS quite a bit (not that I wanted her to). My HS kid is the instagram kid but she isn't obsessed with boys. She dates as well.

I think your seeing this because you're in Bethesda/CC. It's a whole different world there. We moved out of the area last year and my younger kids are in private school now and the kids are a lot nicer with less entitlement even though a lot are extremely weatlhy. We lived in Bethesda and Arlington before we moved so I know what you're talking about.

Raise confident girls who don't care what boys think. I don't mean this in a snarky way and it's REALLY REALLY hard to do this in the current culture but that's the best you can do. I'm hoping to teach my son to not be an a$shole

Love to know where you moved to. Can you describe or it name it?

We are looking at a new job in either oHilly suburbs or Richmond and one of the pluses would be normal families for the kids. Or not so difficult to find, or a better hit rate. I cannot believe how many of my oldest daughters friends from various things - sports, preschool, neighborhood, school - suddenly are stuck in their phones, dress like boys, think they’re trans and don’t like or do anything. Sad.

OP here.

My experience with watching my daughter and friends is that they are open to dating the "less cool" (yes, that sounds ridiculous but you know what i mean) boys but those boys are only interested in the "popular" girls as well. I count my son and his friends in this group.
The current dating norm is not kind to girls, especially those who are not "putting it all out there on social media". Boys seem to expect the bikini-clad hot girl who sells this image on social media and otherwise are content to lead girls on or ignore them.


I'm sure this is not the case across all high schools in all areas but there does seem to be the norm in much of NW DC. It kind of sucks to be a girl. Again, I see both sides of this and love my children equally---so I am not here to say "girls are wonderful and guys are pigs" but I do see boys having the upper hand in the teen dating world (or lack of dating world) at this point in time.

Anonymous wrote:I work with teens and would say a majority of them do not have the social skills we would expect of kids their age pre-COVID. Even young people I meet who I would say present with good/acceptable social skills talk about having a lot of anxiety approaching other teens/making new friends/putting themselves out there socially. These covid cohorts of teens either need support to catch up socially or they are going to be late bloomers (which is mostly fine).

Besides the pandemic, social media contributes to the anxiety. Online bullying-sharing an unflattering photo/video can destroy someone and linger forever. You piss off one moody "friend", friend gets you back online and you face social death. The scope of bullying has changed and the damage they can do, is more permanent. Of course the bullies themselves are making total fools of themselves online and a lot of that may come back to haunt them. The social world is incredibly complex now and it is not just as simple as a few catch up skills. Navigating the new methods of bullying is complicated for even adults who choose public lives to handle.

I work with teens and would say a majority of them do not have the social skills we would expect of kids their age pre-COVID. Even young people I meet who I would say present with good/acceptable social skills talk about having a lot of anxiety approaching other teens/making new friends/putting themselves out there socially. These covid cohorts of teens either need support to catch up socially or they are going to be late bloomers (which is mostly fine).

I find the teen boys are dating less and interacting less with the girls and studies back that up.

Kids are starting later --thank goodness.

My teen sons have a nice friend group that includes boys and girls and they are all athletes/scholars, not serious partiers--or even really party.

What's changed? Seriously?

The girls that put out early and dressed like Hos were always popular with the boys---even back in the 1980s.

Those that were pretty/cute, athletic and into school and were not giving it up or randomly hooking up with the guys/different guys were the 'girl next door' friends of these guys-but not the girls they dated or asked out.

I was one of the non-slutty, promiscuous flaunting myself types and all those guys that were my 'friend' and never asked me out were banging down the door in my 20s. It's funny how it works out that way. All of my friends married very well and have had successful careers and marriages.

This is only different because of social media, but it's a story as old as time.

My cute, quiet, funny DS (who had a decent social circle but was interested in the arts (non-sporty) and not "popular") had several girlfriends in HS who were probably similar to him in terms of social status. If every boy in you DDs school is a douchbag, OP, you are at the wrong school. It's more likely that you DD and her friends are just not interested in the less popular boys.

This thread and many of the replies are gross. As several PPs have noted, it sounds like OP's DD and her friends are likely doing exactly what OP is accusing jerky teen boys of doing. I'm sure there are a lot of average teen boys that would be happy to date the less popular girls.

Also, the implication that that the well-developed, pretty girls must be awful and have nothing between their ears is sexist and gross (and sounds more like jealousy than anything else). My DD is cute and posts bikini pictures on IG. She's also kind, funny and incredibly smart. She is now a first year at a highly ranked college in STEM.

Anonymous wrote:I think part of it is that boys used to just see/get crushes on girls by seeing them in real life, so all cute/pretty girls were basically on equal footing. Now there are girls willing to expose themselves on social media in bathing suits, push up bras, sexy poses, etc and other girls not willing to do that because they think it's pathetic and/or know their parents will kill them. The ones who put themselves out there on social media are sending the message loud and clear that they want attention from boys, and so, naturally, that's who teenage boys focus on.

OP -- like others have said, if your daughter wants to date or hang out with a boy, she needs to focus on the non-douchebag boys, ie, not your son's group of friends. There are smart, athletic, funny, handsome boys who are like your daughter and her friends. They are interested in girls, but a little shy. I know because I have one!

I am glad you brought this up. My daughter had a friend group she moved away from and I applaud her. She showed me their titktoks. First off, not sure if it's a filter or not, but besides plastic surgery, looks like some are already getting lip injections. Bright, athletic girls are on there wearing lingerie like dresses or crop tops mouthing words to to songs about sex and blow jobs as they make sexy eyes and even do hand job motions. It's like an ad for an escort. There is one where they are hanging with a group of guys and everyone is dancing. The guys pretend to do oral sex on eachother in dance. Girls will grab eachother's boobs from behind. These same kids, especially the boys act all angelic around their mommies. I know some of them.

I think it will be frightening to see what happens in this group with Roe v Wade being turned over. My friend in highschool had 4 brothers who were popular athletes. They were taught about birth control early and often and given condoms galore by the parents. They were told abortions would be paid for no questions asked. The parents funded quite a few abortions between highschool and college. Teenagers are notoriously impulsive so it's hard enough to get them to use birth control properly. Now that it's harder to get an abortion and it involves traveling out of state I fear for these young people making poor choices and not fully understanding potential consequences.

Teenage boys have always been jerkish about about girls-some of them at least. Their hormones are raging and the more a girl advertises she might put out the more attention she can get. They want to experience sex and so do the girls and they don't have enough life experience to know they are playing with fire sleeping around. Sure there are nice kids getting to know eachother, dating for a long time and being more cautious about sex, but there is a whole F me culture going on online that is scary and I hope my kids continue to stay away from that crowd.