Anonymous
02/03/2023 08:18
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
I’m glad that Biden is pushing to expand rail. A great option for domestic travel.
Anonymous
02/03/2023 08:16
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because my overall footprint is still less than most. I drive an economical vehicle, and not even that much. Heat is set to 64 in winter, 77 in summer (little cooler at night). Small home, not a lot of land, do not have a consumerist mentality and don't buy junk stuff that isn't needed. Will keep the same phone for 5+ years.
Who constitutes “most”? Certainly it the worldwide most. Probably not the American most.
OP, here’s what I would basically say. We have a net worth of $4M in our early 40s. Most people of our means, in our area, live in 8k sf houses, but we squeeze into 4K sf. We only own two cars, neither is a Suburban, and one is a hybrid. Most of our vacations are driving destinations, and many of them are cruises, which we’re sharing with thousands of other passengers.
All of this is true. I, of course, would never bother to say any of it, because it’s a futile justification. You can not burn fossil fuels and explain it away by saying that someone else burns more. So I just shrug. If we need to decarbonize, we’ll do it with nuclear when people are ready for for that. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.
Wait, you are citing a cruise as an environmentally conscious vacation choice? Wow.
Anonymous
02/03/2023 08:14
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:I'll start worrying about it right after Al Gore and all the celebrities who keep talking about how we need to save the earth starting walking the walk and ground themselves instead of continuing to jet around on private planes.
Till then, I'll fly wherever. I suppose you could say my travel is "green" thereafter because once at my destination I nearly always take trains and public transportation--rarely taxis.
And I guess you'll start caring about others as soon as all of those narcissistic celebrities do?
And you'll start paying your taxes as soon as all the wealthy tax dodgers do?
Sounds like you're looking for an excuse to do whatever you want.
Anonymous
02/03/2023 08:14
Subject: Re:How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:My DD is adopted and so are my dogs. The fact I didn’t create more humans to populate the earth gets me planet brownie points. We also have solar panels and don’t have a huge house that we heat/cool. Oh and we are vegetarian so not supporting factory farming either.
?? How is this relevant? Unless you mean you didn't give birth to your dogs, in which case . . . OK?
Anonymous
02/03/2023 08:11
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:I don't go green. Not only there is no way one person's conduct can impact things, there is no way that anything would be impacted if we in the US all went green. Rounding error and would not help. China and India are the key and they are never ever going green,
So we shouldn't do the right thing unless everyone is doing it? Wow.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 21:26
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I stopped flying completely. I see it as a sacrifice for our children. They have to pay for the crap we got them into. Although I love traveling I feel much better traveling without flying. And to all those who justify themselves by referring to being vegetarian, having adopted children, being better than people taking private ...: This isn't an excuse for produce excess CO2 when flying just for pleasure.
It is great that there are at least a few people like yourself who are taking actions like this. It makes me feel less alone in my own efforts.
I'm curious if you have tried to influence neighbors and friends to reduce CO2 emissions. I've hesitated to take this step. But if you have done it, I'm curious to hear how it has gone.
NP-I make similar sacrifices, and my opinion is that it's better to not discuss my efforts unless someone brings up the topic. It's really difficult sometimes, like when someone tells me about their fifth long-distance flight this year or their long weekend somewhere in Europe. But people aren't likely to listen if we try to force it on them.
Anonymous
01/30/2023 16:45
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I stopped flying completely. I see it as a sacrifice for our children. They have to pay for the crap we got them into. Although I love traveling I feel much better traveling without flying. And to all those who justify themselves by referring to being vegetarian, having adopted children, being better than people taking private ...: This isn't an excuse for produce excess CO2 when flying just for pleasure.
It is great that there are at least a few people like yourself who are taking actions like this. It makes me feel less alone in my own efforts.
I'm curious if you have tried to influence neighbors and friends to reduce CO2 emissions. I've hesitated to take this step. But if you have done it, I'm curious to hear how it has gone.
NP- also curious, but family too. My DD wants to study abroad in Australia, ack. That single flight is worse then going back and forth to SF multiple times. And then they would go travel around SE Asia afterword. And like, I get it, they've never been out of the country. But it all feels so wasteful.
Anonymous
01/30/2023 10:51
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:I stopped flying completely. I see it as a sacrifice for our children. They have to pay for the crap we got them into. Although I love traveling I feel much better traveling without flying. And to all those who justify themselves by referring to being vegetarian, having adopted children, being better than people taking private ...: This isn't an excuse for produce excess CO2 when flying just for pleasure.
It is great that there are at least a few people like yourself who are taking actions like this. It makes me feel less alone in my own efforts.
I'm curious if you have tried to influence neighbors and friends to reduce CO2 emissions. I've hesitated to take this step. But if you have done it, I'm curious to hear how it has gone.
Anonymous
01/25/2023 22:18
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:I stopped flying completely. I see it as a sacrifice for our children. They have to pay for the crap we got them into. Although I love traveling I feel much better traveling without flying. And to all those who justify themselves by referring to being vegetarian, having adopted children, being better than people taking private ...: This isn't an excuse for produce excess CO2 when flying just for pleasure.
How are you “traveling” without flying?
Anonymous
01/25/2023 22:16
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:Riddle me this - tons of private jets to the climate conference every year. One attendee took a 747 - just for him. If they don’t care and they are the leaders of the movement, what does that tell you?
It tells me they’re a lot smarter than all these dupes who think their Prius or Tesla will be the one thing that saves the planet.
Most of these attendees have beach houses, too. Expensive ones. Because there’s a lot of money to be made in Green Grift.
Anonymous
01/25/2023 20:19
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because my overall footprint is still less than most. I drive an economical vehicle, and not even that much. Heat is set to 64 in winter, 77 in summer (little cooler at night). Small home, not a lot of land, do not have a consumerist mentality and don't buy junk stuff that isn't needed. Will keep the same phone for 5+ years.
Who constitutes “most”? Certainly it the worldwide most. Probably not the American most.
OP, here’s what I would basically say. We have a net worth of $4M in our early 40s. Most people of our means, in our area, live in 8k sf houses, but we squeeze into 4K sf. We only own two cars, neither is a Suburban, and one is a hybrid. Most of our vacations are driving destinations, and many of them are cruises, which we’re sharing with thousands of other passengers.
All of this is true. I, of course, would never bother to say any of it, because it’s a futile justification. You can not burn fossil fuels and explain it away by saying that someone else burns more. So I just shrug. If we need to decarbonize, we’ll do it with nuclear when people are ready for for that. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.
You are doing much more than most high-net worth folks to restrain your consumption, but a 4000 sf house is huge by the standards that existed just a generation ago, and massive in comparison to most of the world. Somehow, we need to reverse course, and scale back our home sizes. IMO, a 2000 sf house is fine for a household with 4 or 5 members.
Anonymous
01/19/2023 07:53
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
I stopped flying completely. I see it as a sacrifice for our children. They have to pay for the crap we got them into. Although I love traveling I feel much better traveling without flying. And to all those who justify themselves by referring to being vegetarian, having adopted children, being better than people taking private ...: This isn't an excuse for produce excess CO2 when flying just for pleasure.
Anonymous
01/19/2023 07:37
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Riddle me this - tons of private jets to the climate conference every year. One attendee took a 747 - just for him. If they don’t care and they are the leaders of the movement, what does that tell you?
Anonymous
01/10/2023 20:50
Subject: Re:How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:I don't drive that much, don't have a commute. I do travel once a year to see family. The planes are going to fly anyway. It's not like not flying means the planes fly any less.
That is absolutely not true. If fewer people buy plane tickets, fewer flights will be scheduled.
But I'm not suggesting anyone should miss out on visiting family once a year, of course.
Anonymous
01/10/2023 17:51
Subject: How do you justify your desire for travel & leisure with going green?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You travel and enjoy. Going green as a lifestyle is dumb. Certain things can be done green. Others are 20 years away (cars).
Super persuasive!
They aren’t wrong. A flight or two per year more than negates turning down the thermostat a few degrees in winter