Anonymous wrote:What are "CTCL" schools?

An NYT education reporter coined the term, then wrote a book (maybe more) about them. They're mainly liberal arts colleges outside the Northeast. There are some posters on here who seem to live to hate them and accuse anyone who even mentions one of them of having veal for children. Yes, they may not be as prestigious as some of the NESCACs, but some crank out grads in certain fields who go on to top grad schools, etc. For example, Wooster is known for its physics program. They are a good alternative for students who can only afford in-state, but may better thrive in a LAC. There are some who offer generous merit packages to make that possible.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are "CTCL" schools?

Colleges that change lives. They are very important to a subset of people on DCUM.

They are important to a group of people obsessed with hating them, more specifically. I suspect they are obsessed with the CTCL schools because they are obsessively aiming for T30 and worry that if competitive students want to go to CTCL schools instead of T30, the value of the T30 degree will eventually decline (as they already are). Hence the panic over CTCL schools.

Lol you couldn’t be more off base. The CTCL bashers aren’t “afraid” of the schools, they feel sorry for the suckers who the CTCL marketing machine convinces them that the schools are somehow “special” when they’re not. In fact, whenever a CTCL school becomes special CTCL drops them, because at that point the school doesn’t need the marketing.

They’re “special” only in that they cost too much for a mediocre degree.

[quote=Anonymous] [/quote] Wait, are we still talking about Notre Dame? [/quote]

Maybe we should still be talking about Notre Dame. According to this Georgetown study, the 40-year, present value ROI of a Notre Dame degree is 1.6 million, while UVA is 1.3 million. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/
This should not be a surprise to anyone who has come across Notre Dame’s uber loyal alumni network. As for the quality of the undergraduate experience, well, kids love Notre Dame — and since your kid seems to be amongst the self-selecting group who have applied (and been admitted), he or she would almost definitely have enjoyed Notre Dame way more than UVA. But, hey, it’s only four years of your child’s life...[/quote]

Lol I’m a fan of Notre Dame but UVA has the highest graduation rate of any state school in the country and rivals the very best privates (including ND) in this department. In many ways UVA is basically Notre Dame without religion.

I am smart about my money and so are my kids. We have money for all college and beyond education for them, but it needs to show returns. My kids are going to state schools for in demand majors on merit scholarship. The money we have saved is a big bonus.

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Anonymous wrote:I won’t pay a lot for clothes or cars or alcohol or beauty treatments or jewelry or fine dining any of that stuff but yeah, I will pay tuition at whatever college my kid wants to go to. My kid goes to an $80k school, my pants are from Old Navy. Makes me happy. YMMV.

+1000

DOn't understand the "I'll pay for an ivy or Stanford/MIT but after that, I'm not paying $80K". If you can afford to pay, why would you not want your kid to attend the best college of THEIR choice?

And if you would need to take loans for the IVY/S/M I don't call that affording it. I'd ask, why would you take $40-50K/year just for that. Ivies are great school, but really not that much better (or even better at all) than many of the other T50 schools. For me it's more about major and fit. But I wouldn't go into debt for any school if I had other choices I could afford (but it's a mute point as I have saved and can/am sending my kids to full pay expensive schools)

Because paying 80k "after that" is just plain stupid, that's why, and most 18 year olds aren't sophisticated enough financially to realize that. So you have to step in. Why is it that folks don't think twice about denying a kid anything but a college education on the ground that the thing they want just isn't worth the money.

We had one kid get into UVA and Notre Dame. Yes, we could have afforded Notre Dame, but we can afford lots of things that we don't buy. Are we really just expected to pay double for Notre Dame just because our kid wants us to? Sorry, no.

We value education. So yes, I'd happily pay if that's where my kid wants to attend. You obviously are not required to do that. But I'd rather spend on a college education than a fancy car or vacation

Ridiculous. UVA in state is less than half of ND and the educations are very comparable. Next?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I won’t pay a lot for clothes or cars or alcohol or beauty treatments or jewelry or fine dining any of that stuff but yeah, I will pay tuition at whatever college my kid wants to go to. My kid goes to an $80k school, my pants are from Old Navy. Makes me happy. YMMV.

+1000

DOn't understand the "I'll pay for an ivy or Stanford/MIT but after that, I'm not paying $80K". If you can afford to pay, why would you not want your kid to attend the best college of THEIR choice?

And if you would need to take loans for the IVY/S/M I don't call that affording it. I'd ask, why would you take $40-50K/year just for that. Ivies are great school, but really not that much better (or even better at all) than many of the other T50 schools. For me it's more about major and fit. But I wouldn't go into debt for any school if I had other choices I could afford (but it's a mute point as I have saved and can/am sending my kids to full pay expensive schools)

Because paying 80k "after that" is just plain stupid, that's why, and most 18 year olds aren't sophisticated enough financially to realize that. So you have to step in. Why is it that folks don't think twice about denying a kid anything but a college education on the ground that the thing they want just isn't worth the money.

We had one kid get into UVA and Notre Dame. Yes, we could have afforded Notre Dame, but we can afford lots of things that we don't buy. Are we really just expected to pay double for Notre Dame just because our kid wants us to? Sorry, no.

So what kind of cars do you drive?

And how much is your house worth?

Primary residence is worth $1.8 million. Second home is worth $900k.

Why do you need that second home? What a waste.

LOL nice try. We're not throwing money away on it. We didn't pay more for it than it was worth, and it's an appreciating asset. Unlike some BS no-name second tier overpriced private college.

I wouldn’t count on that. The second home market is falling and about to take a real beating.

My second home isn’t in a touristy area. It’s in a college town.

Next?

Anonymous wrote:Just one person's opinion but I don't get paying $75k+ a year for a school not named HYPSM.

You may not get it, but for people for whom the money doesn’t matter, they don’t really care. Do you think the families of the wealthy horse girls that go to Sweet Briar care about the fact the name isn’t HYPSM? Those families could become development admits at HYPSM if they wanted, but they don’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are "CTCL" schools?

Colleges that change lives. They are very important to a subset of people on DCUM.

They are important to a group of people obsessed with hating them, more specifically. I suspect they are obsessed with the CTCL schools because they are obsessively aiming for T30 and worry that if competitive students want to go to CTCL schools instead of T30, the value of the T30 degree will eventually decline (as they already are). Hence the panic over CTCL schools.

Weird post, you seem very invested and obviously put a lot of thought into your theory. You prove the point though, they are very important to a subset of people here, obviously you are one of them.

Predictable, touchy response that shows the theory is correct.

Anonymous wrote:Just one person's opinion but I don't get paying $75k+ a year for a school not named HYPSM.

Any top 20 college is worth it.

Just one person's opinion but I don't get paying $75k+ a year for a school not named HYPSM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are "CTCL" schools?

Colleges that change lives. They are very important to a subset of people on DCUM.

They are important to a group of people obsessed with hating them, more specifically. I suspect they are obsessed with the CTCL schools because they are obsessively aiming for T30 and worry that if competitive students want to go to CTCL schools instead of T30, the value of the T30 degree will eventually decline (as they already are). Hence the panic over CTCL schools.

Weird post, you seem very invested and obviously put a lot of thought into your theory. You prove the point though, they are very important to a subset of people here, obviously you are one of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are "CTCL" schools?

Colleges that change lives. They are very important to a subset of people on DCUM.

They are important to a group of people obsessed with hating them, more specifically. I suspect they are obsessed with the CTCL schools because they are obsessively aiming for T30 and worry that if competitive students want to go to CTCL schools instead of T30, the value of the T30 degree will eventually decline (as they already are). Hence the panic over CTCL schools.

Anonymous wrote:What are "CTCL" schools?

Colleges that change lives. They are very important to a subset of people on DCUM.

What are "CTCL" schools?

[quote=Anonymous] [/quote] Wait, are we still talking about Notre Dame? [/quote]

Maybe we should still be talking about Notre Dame. According to this Georgetown study, the 40-year, present value ROI of a Notre Dame degree is 1.6 million, while UVA is 1.3 million. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/collegeroi/
This should not be a surprise to anyone who has come across Notre Dame’s uber loyal alumni network. As for the quality of the undergraduate experience, well, kids love Notre Dame — and since your kid seems to be amongst the self-selecting group who have applied (and been admitted), he or she would almost definitely have enjoyed Notre Dame way more than UVA. But, hey, it’s only four years of your child’s life...[/quote]

I agree with this PP, with one caveat. What if the kid liked ND, but didn't love it? There's a big difference because it is a culture that you either embrace or tolerate. I say this as a parent who paid $75K a year to send my kid there. But he "loved" ND and sucked everything he could from the experience.

UVA was also one of my kid's options because he also liked that school and its traditions. He just didn't like them as much as ND. $30K incremental a year is a lot to pay for that experience, so he better REALLY want it.

But I do agree the alumni network at ND is phenomenal. My son got some great perks...including an amazing summer internship as a rising senior that turned into a job offer during his senior year. He is doing great.